Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession)

[Benotti69]

sure, but it's not all about lance telling the truth. what if he can showthe truth? what if he has actual documents/emails, etc. implicating heinous? not that i think he does, but he might and then it might be worth hearing lance sing.

He aint gonna sing. Wiesel and Stapleton will not allow it. He knows that.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

But what if that's a precondition for Lance to engage in busthrowundery?
If he brings down Verbruggen tomorrow in exchange for sentence reduction, i'd be all for that.
On the other hand, i'm not sure if Armwrong has enough ammunition to really harm Heinous.
Hein is like garden weed. Useless, but keeps growing back.

Hmmm... I always thought it was "throwunderbussery".

 

[Benotti69]

While I think that is the point of the discussed show, he can't. Bach has spoken clearly on the matter and Cookson has no choice but to do as he wishes.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/mo...ioc-lance-armstrong-doping-sochi-olympics.ap/

Good, because as i posted above, he will not be allowed to tell all, not that i think he wants to anyway. He is trying to get himself off the hook with public opinion rather than actually doing the right thing. Will not work. Media will not forget how much he led them down the path of lies, not that the majority media were not complicit in the lies. But the BBC show recently illustrates perfectly how Armstrong will be treated as the biggest cheating doper of all time.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b03k5k9x/5_live_Sport_5_live_Cycling_12_11_2013/

Also too many who he F***ED over will never let him forget it. He made too many enemies, unlike say Indurain.

So Armstrong's game of golf will only improve, i hope he does what Michael Jordan did on the golf course. Speed up the process.

 

[Samson777]

Don't know now if this as been posted before, anyway pretty comic, Wonderboy have his own support page: http://www.lancesupport.org/badges.php

They even have their own badge

 

[Fausto's Schnauzer]

So Armstrong's game of golf will only improve, i hope he does what Michael Jordan did on the golf course. Speed up the process.

Or perhaps he'll be like OJ's who claimed that he was spending his time looking for the "real killer," who it seemed that Orenthal James suspected was either a golf caddy or a range boy.

Whatchya think, will Golden Boy ever find the "real doper"?

 

[Berzin]

Armstrong wasted too much time fighting the process as opposed to the allegations. He never had any intention on cooperating with ANYONE. I guess he felt since he was able to scutter the Federal investigation, he could go after the USADA with the same results.

Going forward, he is calculating that any information he has will be billed to Travis Tygart. In other words, he will look to parse out bits and pieces depending on what those bits can buy him, but he wants to see the receipt in advance.

The more time he spends doing this, the less his information is worth.

Exposing Ferrari, Bruyneel, the doctors and the people like Motoman who procured the drugs will be done by either the investigating committees or law enforcement. They don't really need Armstrong's testimony.

And as much as people say that McQuaid should be outed, Armstrong's reign of terror took place under the watchful eye of Hein Verbruggen, who is now a retired old man and doesn't care one way or another what happens going forward.

The point made about the lack or worth of Armstrong's potential testimony is a good one. In the Gibney film, he remarks that the truth hasn't been heard yet. Well, what are you waiting for then, Lance?

 

[BroDeal]

USADA has not done itself any favors. The six month sanctions were ridiculous. Hincapie and Leipheimer retired and barely lost a paycheck. Someone needs to ask JV if he continued to pay TD, VDV, and DZ. It would not surprise me if their paychecks were never interrupted. The suspensions were timed so no one lost any days of competition. That was the same sort of sketchy skirting of the rules that national Feds used to pull in the 90s. This powderpuff handling of those who gave affidavits gives Armsrtong a legitimate complaint that he was mistreated.

In the end USADA will reduce Armstrong's ban to eight years. It won't do Armstrong much good but it will allow USADA to save face.

Those at USADA seem to be very disingenuous about Armstrong being just another cyclist who would have been treated like all the others. The goal was clearly to get Armstrong. Lying about that further reduces the credibility of USADA. An obvious question is where are all prosecutions of other riders. Surely the Garmin guys could have given info about dozens of other riders they directly witnessed doping. There have been no proceedings against any rider other than Armstrong. That really blows a hole in USADA's claim of wanting to clean up cycling.

 

[blackcat]

paypacket is fungible tho innit. lose no significant racing days, still their for Cali, Giro, classics, and Tour, how will they have lost their actual worth at contract time, especially if they stay shtum.

 

[blackcat]

Someone needs to ask JV if he continued to pay TD, VDV, and DZ. It would not surprise me if their paychecks were never interrupted. The suspensions were timed so no one lost any days of competition. That was the same sort of sketchy skirting of the rules that national Feds used to pull in the 90s. This powderpuff handling of those who gave affidavits gives Armsrtong a legitimate complaint that he was mistreated.

also raises the question, with those riders you name, and little tommy D coming off a top 10 at the Tour, their combined salaries would have had to be 1.5 mill.

So, if JV does not have to pay them, for 6 months, (ignore my post above^ on market value/fungible for days raced)

then the Garmin principals, ellis jv millar, could be 750k better off. That really is farked up, to believe that jv DOES NOT know what goes on, then profits out of it 750k to Slipstreams advantage.

This really is the doping Cinderella slipper

 

[Benotti69]

Or perhaps he'll be like OJ's who claimed that he was spending his time looking for the "real killer," who it seemed that Orenthal James suspected was either a golf caddy or a range boy.

Whatchya think, will Golden Boy ever find the "real doper"?

Wouldn't surprise me if LA ended up like OJ.

Michael Jordan could not play golf without making it ultra competitive by betting huge money on games. He lost a fortune

 

[Benotti69]

USADA has not done itself any favors. The six month sanctions were ridiculous. Hincapie and Leipheimer retired and barely lost a paycheck. Someone needs to ask JV if he continued to pay TD, VDV, and DZ. It would not surprise me if their paychecks were never interrupted. The suspensions were timed so no one lost any days of competition. That was the same sort of sketchy skirting of the rules that national Feds used to pull in the 90s. This powderpuff handling of those who gave affidavits gives Armsrtong a legitimate complaint that he was mistreated.

In the end USADA will reduce Armstrong's ban to eight years. It won't do Armstrong much good but it will allow USADA to save face.

Those at USADA seem to be very disingenuous about Armstrong being just another cyclist who would have been treated like all the others. The goal was clearly to get Armstrong. Lying about that further reduces the credibility of USADA. An obvious question is where are all prosecutions of other riders. Surely the Garmin guys could have given info about dozens of other riders they directly witnessed doping. There have been no proceedings against any rider other than Armstrong. That really blows a hole in USADA's claim of wanting to clean up cycling.

Bang on.

Tygart has not done himself or the sport any favours by going after only Armstrong and USPS main protagonists.

Still think Armstrong deserves a lifetime ban.

I hope if he does talk to USADA, the feds sit in on it in some way.

But what does suck about this whole process is no one has had to cough up financially which was the whole raison d'etre to dope.

 

[Benotti69]

Armstrong wasted too much time fighting the process as opposed to the allegations. He never had any intention on cooperating with ANYONE. I guess he felt since he was able to scutter the Federal investigation, he could go after the USADA with the same results.

Going forward, he is calculating that any information he has will be billed to Travis Tygart. In other words, he will look to parse out bits and pieces depending on what those bits can buy him, but he wants to see the receipt in advance.

The more time he spends doing this, the less his information is worth.

Exposing Ferrari, Bruyneel, the doctors and the people like Motoman who procured the drugs will be done by either the investigating committees or law enforcement. They don't really need Armstrong's testimony.

And as much as people say that McQuaid should be outed, Armstrong's reign of terror took place under the watchful eye of Hein Verbruggen, who is now a retired old man and doesn't care one way or another what happens going forward.

The point made about the lack or worth of Armstrong's potential testimony is a good one. In the Gibney film, he remarks that the truth hasn't been heard yet. Well, what are you waiting for then, Lance?

I guess Hein has put his assets and money well out of reach of any authorities at this stage. So no reason to go after him, but would very much like the public to hear how corrupt he was just so his legacy would be tarnished forever.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

I guess Hein has put his assets and money well out of reach of any authorities at this stage. So no reason to go after him, but would very much like the public to hear how corrupt he was just so his legacy would be tarnished forever.

There are more dirt around the corridors of Aigle besides Hein/McQ. Can some of this be uncovered by the T&C? Zorzoli, whats he doing? Was he part of the corruption?

Many questions. No answers yet.

 

[Benotti69]

There are more dirt around the corridors of Aigle besides Hein/McQ. Can some of this be uncovered by the T&C? Zorzoli, whats he doing? Was he part of the corruption?

Many questions. No answers yet.

Yep and who is going to spill them? No Armstrong, he had a hotline to Hein and probably it was Weisel or Stapleton doing the dealing.

Why would Armstrong know of all the inner shennigans going in UCI?

Zorzoli had a deal with Leinders, did Hein know about it? Maybe, maybe not, I would not be surprised if many in UCI were making scores on the side with various teams, ds etc etc

 

[MonkeyFace]

USADA has not done itself any favors. The six month sanctions were ridiculous. Hincapie and Leipheimer retired and barely lost a paycheck. Someone needs to ask JV if he continued to pay TD, VDV, and DZ. It would not surprise me if their paychecks were never interrupted. The suspensions were timed so no one lost any days of competition. That was the same sort of sketchy skirting of the rules that national Feds used to pull in the 90s. This powderpuff handling of those who gave affidavits gives Armsrtong a legitimate complaint that he was mistreated.

In the end USADA will reduce Armstrong's ban to eight years. It won't do Armstrong much good but it will allow USADA to save face.

Those at USADA seem to be very disingenuous about Armstrong being just another cyclist who would have been treated like all the others. The goal was clearly to get Armstrong. Lying about that further reduces the credibility of USADA. An obvious question is where are all prosecutions of other riders. Surely the Garmin guys could have given info about dozens of other riders they directly witnessed doping. There have been no proceedings against any rider other than Armstrong. That really blows a hole in USADA's claim of wanting to clean up cycling.

Save face? How silly are you? USADA bent over backwards to try to work with Armstrong including extending their decision date. Armstrong sued them, tried to get the case thrown out, tried to state USADA didn't have justification, asked some of his former teammates to commit perjury, tried to get politicians to castrate USADA's power and claimed that USADA didn't protect the rights of clean riders. Internally, according to the book Wheelmen, USADA was looking to give a 6 month ban to Armstrong and taking away his last TDF wins for full cooperation. Armstrong didn't like that USADA won't finalize the penalty before the confession and choose to fight it instead of cooperating. Armstrong wasn't treated any differently and if anything he was given preferential treatment due to the fact that he likely has first hand information pertaining to UCI corruption. Armstrong was the only rider that USADA gave an extension to get his information in order prior to making a ruling. Armstrong never had any intentions of work with USADA due to the fact that any information he provided would damage his public image and make it difficult to fight off a bunch of lawsuits over insurance fraud and slander.

 

[BroDeal]

Save face? How silly are you? USADA bent over backwards to try to work with Armstrong including extending their decision date. Armstrong sued them, tried to get the case thrown out, tried to state USADA didn't have justification, asked some of his former teammates to commit perjury, tried to get politicians to castrate USADA's power and claimed that USADA didn't protect the rights of clean riders. Internally, according to the book Wheelmen, USADA was looking to give a 6 month ban to Armstrong and taking away his last TDF wins for full cooperation. Armstrong didn't like that USADA won't finalize the penalty before the confession and choose to fight it instead of cooperating. Armstrong wasn't treated any differently and if anything he was given preferential treatment due to the fact that he likely has first hand information pertaining to UCI corruption. Armstrong was the only rider that USADA gave an extension to get his information in order prior to making a ruling. Armstrong never had any intentions of work with USADA due to the fact that any information he provided would damage his public image and make it difficult to fight off a bunch of lawsuits over insurance fraud and slander.

Try paying attention to what is going on and thinking for yourself rather than blindly accepting what those with a vested interest say.

 

[Briant_Gumble]

I worked as an extra on the Lance Armstrong film today. I was impressed by Ben Fosters performance as Lance, does a great job recreating Lance unique manner of speaking but not so impressed by the guy playing Walsh (though it's very difficult to make a judgement based off one scene).

David Millar was there BFF with Ben Foster and the first AD, I kid you not.

 

[Fortyninefourteen]

I worked as an extra on the Lance Armstrong film today. I was impressed by Ben Fosters performance as Lance, does a great job recreating Lance unique manner of speaking but not so impressed by the guy playing Walsh (though it's very difficult to make a judgement based off one scene).

David Millar was there BFF with Ben Foster and the first AD, I kid you not.

As an extra, were you required to be on Ferrari's 'acting' program? I heard Foster is making everybody go to Ferrari....

 

[MarkvW]

USADA has not done itself any favors. The six month sanctions were ridiculous. Hincapie and Leipheimer retired and barely lost a paycheck. Someone needs to ask JV if he continued to pay TD, VDV, and DZ. It would not surprise me if their paychecks were never interrupted. The suspensions were timed so no one lost any days of competition. That was the same sort of sketchy skirting of the rules that national Feds used to pull in the 90s. This powderpuff handling of those who gave affidavits gives Armsrtong a legitimate complaint that he was mistreated.

. . .

I don't buy Armstrong's line. The others cooperated--they're apples. Armstrong stonewalled and fought--he's an orange. No comparison.

If Armstrong belatedly cooperates it will be a different (and unprecedented) scenario entirely. But Lance won't trigger that scenario until after his megabucks civil cases are over. Lance is just teasing his haters this time around.

Sooner or later though, Lance will proffer his stale information to USADA/WADA/UCI--in conjunction with the promotion of his dramatic tell-all book (co-authored by his hagiographer Sally Jenkins). He'll be nearing fifty by the time he gets "forgiven."

Lance's eventual forgiveness is utterly inevitable. The media needs to complete the "Rise--Fall--Redemption cycle, and Lance and the cycling establishment will be so happy to oblige.

 

[BroDeal]

I don't buy Armstrong's line. The others cooperated--they're apples. Armstrong stonewalled and fought--he's an orange. No comparison.

It does not matter. Armstrong has appearance on his side. The patty cake sanctions given to the others make his sanction look wildly disproportionate. Honestly, as much as I like seeing Armstrong get pounded, it is disproportionate.

As I said, eventually he will get eight years. It might even be less if what we all suspect turns out to be true, that the affidavits leave out a lot of truth. What happens when information emerges that shows the others doped before they were hired by Postal, they doped after they supposedly stopped, and they actively sought out dope rather than having it forced on them? Riders like Danielson and Hesjedal were hardcore dopers before they turned to racing on the road. It is hard to paint them as victims.

 

[WinterRider]

It does not matter. Armstrong has appearance on his side. The patty cake sanctions given to the others make his sanction look wildly disproportionate. Honestly, as much as I like seeing Armstrong get pounded, it is disproportionate.

As I said, eventually he will get eight years. It might even be less if what we all suspect turns out to be true, that the affidavits leave out a lot of truth. What happens when information emerges that shows the others doped before they were hired by Postal, they doped after they supposedly stopped, and they actively sought out dope rather than having it forced on them? Riders like Danielson and Hesjedal were hardcore dopers before they turned to racing on the road. It is hard to paint them as victims.

To the bolded: Really BroDeal? I don't see how you can say that. You've been here the whole time, you know all the nastly dirty underhanded things Lance did to fight this.

All the other cyclists took drugs, then cooperated. 6 months to a year is reasonable given their cooperation.

Lance on the other hand, took drugs, transported drugs, coerced others to take drugs, made fraudulent contracts, launched fraudulent lawsuits, profited through his charity from what people thought was money going to cancer.

And then, on top of all that, where others cooperated, he attempted to destroy. Multiple lawsuits, had Livestrong lobbyists try to shut down USADA permanently, sought to bribe USADA so he'd have an edge on them, most likely incited the UCI's pathetic attempts to shut it down, and on and on and on.

How can you say their penalties are disproportionate? I would say they are exactly proportionate. Lance did a whole hell of a lot more in the furtherance of cheating in sports than all the other cyclists who testified in this case did combined, and that's including the firestorms that Hamilton and Flandis ignited to try and burn down the USADA.

 

[blackcat]

It does not matter. Armstrong has appearance on his side. The patty cake sanctions given to the others make his sanction look wildly disproportionate. Honestly, as much as I like seeing Armstrong get pounded, it is disproportionate.

As I said, eventually he will get eight years. It might even be less if what we all suspect turns out to be true, that the affidavits leave out a lot of truth. What happens when information emerges that shows the others doped before they were hired by Postal, they doped after they supposedly stopped, and they actively sought out dope rather than having it forced on them? Riders like Danielson and Hesjedal were hardcore dopers before they turned to racing on the road. It is hard to paint them as victims.

but does Ricco have life?

So Ricco doped his entire cycling life, and in the espoirs, jnrs and pros.

Got caught twice? or three times? I know he had really funny numbers in the espoirs, but i dont think he was officially sanctioned. That is why only Saunier Duval would pick him up.

Armstrong doped in the triathlon as a jnr and then thru all his cycling career. And doped to over 100million in rewards.

I dont think either should have a life ban, as I think the entire artifice of WADA is only so the IOC can sell partnerships to IBM and GE.

 

[doperhopper]

It does not matter. Armstrong has appearance on his side. The patty cake sanctions given to the others make his sanction look wildly disproportionate. Honestly, as much as I like seeing Armstrong get pounded, it is disproportionate.

well, if Hitler was caught and brought to the Nuremberg tribunal, it's quite possible he would get longer ban and more titles stripped off than ordinary Goering

but don't worry, LA wil tell everything, at least was ordered to by the new boss on the block to tell everything...

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/froome-lance-armstrong-can-help-cycling-by-sharing-his-story

 

[BroDeal]

well, if Hitler was caught and brought to the Nuremberg tribunal, it's quite possible he would get longer ban and more titles stripped off than ordinary Goering

Goering: "I am sorry to admit that more than ten years ago I chose the wrong path. Several months ago a I voluntarily stopped inciting hatred against the Jews. Since then I have been part of the solution. Uh...I don't mean the final solution. Instead I have mentored young Nazis to bring about a kinder and gentler Third Reich, a Fourth Reich, where Aryans and undesirables--uh...I mean Jews--can live in peace with each other, burg side by side with ghetto.

"I look forward to my six month vacation--I mean house arrest--at my estate on the Rhine. I am sure the serene contemplation will make me a better person. I also hope to shake the goose step out of my stride. Thank you, USADA, for this opportunity for enlightenment."

 

[IzzyStradlin]

All the other cyclists took drugs, then cooperated. 6 months to a year is reasonable given their cooperation.

The 6 months seems very light. It is no secret that guys like Leipheimer, Danielson, Horner were doping long before they ever got to Europe.

Ryder doped as MTB, doped at Rabo, probably doped on HealthNet and how could one possibly not dope on Phonak? He lives in Hawaii near a well-known doping doctor and probably dopes now. "wonderfully stable blood profile"

The other shoe has gotta fall someday.