Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession)

[MonkeyFace]

Hi gooner. I've read Wheelmen, and am familiar with what the authors described. My first impression: USADA told Levinstein about the "5 tours & 6 months" deal. However, upon reading again, it seems USADA had this deal in mind, but they didn't verbalize it to Lance's legal team. So I'm a bit confused as to what the authors were actually saying.

I think that 6 months is what they would have given him if he confessed. Lance not knowing what the penalty would be just went into attack mode. I am willing to bet that many of the other rider who got 6 month bans did not know what their penalty would be exactly prior to their confession. It would be silly for USADA to state what the penalty would be before a confession due to the fact that it may remove all incentive for truthfulness and full disclosure. His teammates likely got very short bans due to all the information they gave was consistent with what they already knew.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

I think that 6 months is what they would have given him if he confessed. Lance not knowing what the penalty would be just went into attack mode. I am willing to bet that many of the other rider who got 6 month bans did not know what their penalty would be exactly prior to their confession. It would be silly for USADA to state what the penalty would be before a confession due to the fact that it may remove all incentive for truthfulness and full disclosure. His teammates likely got very short bans due to all the information they gave was consistent with what they already knew.

Don't agree. I think it was a carefully negotiated deal, in particularly the part which involved Garmin related personnel. The rest of the confessors hitched onto the bandwagon.

Note: viewpoint is only related to the USADA "confessions".

 

[MonkeyFace]

Don't agree. I think it was a carefully negotiated deal, in particularly the part which involved Garmin related personnel. The rest of the confessors hitched onto the bandwagon.

Note: viewpoint is only related to the USADA "confessions".

Even at that, there is no point to giving the same deal to everyone. Deals are given first come, first served. There is no incentive for any cooperation if everyone thinks they can hold out for the same deal.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Even at that, there is no point to giving the same deal to everyone. Deals are given first come, first served. There is no incentive for any cooperation if everyone thinks they can hold out for the same deal.

Depends on the objective. If the objective was solely nailing Armstrong then efficiency and consistency would be key.

 

[MonkeyFace]

Depends on the objective. If the objective was solely nailing Armstrong then efficiency and consistency would be key.

I don't know what you are talking about. Tygart got what he wanted and the only people who got burned were the people who didn't participate. Armstrong could have had it just as easy.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

I don't know what you are talking about. Tygart got what he wanted and the only people who got burned were the people who didn't participate. Armstrong could have had it just as easy.

Don't agree. Armstrong was the target. in just about everybody eyes hes much more than doper. No way he would have gotten a 6 months deal.

 

[86TDFWinner]

Here's a response from Tygart about Wonderboy and his "reduction" for lifetime ban:

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/armstrong-ban-reduction-talk-premature-usada-194100145.html

 

[webvan]

TT in "show us the goods" mode, barring any direct evidence against Heinie or FatPat or someone important we don't know about, I don't see him getting any leeway.

 

[MonkeyFace]

Don't agree. Armstrong was the target. in just about everybody eyes hes much more than doper. No way he would have gotten a 6 months deal.

Well, maybe you should write a book. You seem to know more than the authors of Wheelmen who put in the leg work to talk with almost everyone involved in this affair.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Even the IOC wants to get their jabs in:


http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ioc-president-bach-strongly-backs-083211050--oly.html

Excellent news. The Boss has spoken. Cookson is now can dismiss Wiesel and Plant. It seems like Cookson has little to no relationship with Bach, so you won't have quite the ridiculous displays of corruption like you had with Verbruggen's pal.

IF Armstrong gets his victory lap then it will look ridiculous and Cookson will really be in a good place to appear as shocked as Captain Renault.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Don't agree. I think it was a carefully negotiated deal, in particularly the part which involved Garmin related personnel. The rest of the confessors hitched onto the bandwagon.

Note: viewpoint is only related to the USADA "confessions".

The whole thing on USADA's side was not likely to happen without letting some stuff pass.

For me, none of the people behind the scenes totally deserving lifetime bans have had their walk of shame. But, I think you have to acknowledge the good that did come out and how unlikely that outcome was.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

The whole thing on USADA's side was not likely to happen without letting some stuff pass.

For me, none of the people behind the scenes totally deserving lifetime bans have had their walk of shame. But, I think you have to acknowledge the good that did come out and how unlikely that outcome was.

The part I agree with is going after the big boy. Thats was the right way and perhaps lack of resources meant the objective needed to be very focused. So with Armstrong gone, I'm still waiting for the follow up. Perhaps Cookson's T&R will get us somewhere.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Well, maybe you should write a book. You seem to know more than the authors of Wheelmen who put in the leg work to talk with almost everyone involved in this affair.

No need to ask around, they could have used their brains instead.

 

[86TDFWinner]

WADA/UCI Confirm Doping Probe:


http://sports.yahoo.com/news/wada-uci-confirm-cycling-doping-075055241--oly.html

 

[MonkeyFace]

No need to ask around, they could have used their brains instead.

Well, maybe you should write a book. You seem to know more than the authors of Wheelmen who put in the leg work to talk with almost everyone involved in this affair.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Well, maybe you should write a book. You seem to know more than the authors of Wheelmen who put in the leg work to talk with almost everyone involved in this affair.

This is going well.......

 

[Benotti69]

I don't know what you are talking about. Tygart got what he wanted and the only people who got burned were the people who didn't participate. Armstrong could have had it just as easy.

Armstrong was never going to throw Ferrari, Bruyneel, UCI and others under the bus.

It is too late now for Armstrong. He may, if he gives a lot of info about UCI collaboration, Ferrari and others, get his lifetime reduced to 12-year ban.

That for me is letting him off the hook. Armstrong should never be allowed compete again.

 

[peloton]

More from Tygart.

 

[sniper]

Armstrong was never going to throw Ferrari, Bruyneel, UCI and others under the bus.

It is too late now for Armstrong. He may, if he gives a lot of info about UCI collaboration, Ferrari and others, get his lifetime reduced to 12-year ban.

That for me is letting him off the hook. Armstrong should never be allowed compete again.

But what if that's a precondition for Lance to engage in busthrowundery?
If he brings down Verbruggen tomorrow in exchange for sentence reduction, i'd be all for that.
On the other hand, i'm not sure if Armwrong has enough ammunition to really harm Heinous.
Hein is like garden weed. Useless, but keeps growing back.

 

[veganrob]

I agree with you questionable if Lance could really do anything to bring down Hein.
My interest is what he might say about Weisel. And I doubt Lance will give him up.

 

[Benotti69]

But what if that's a precondition for Lance to engage in busthrowundery?
If he brings down Verbruggen tomorrow in exchange for sentence reduction, i'd be all for that.
On the other hand, i'm not sure if Armwrong has enough ammunition to really harm Heinous.
Hein is like garden weed. Useless, but keeps growing back.

I think that if Armstrong should throw everyone under the bus then let us reappraise as to whether he is repentant and wants to truly help the sport.

I am happy for Armstrong to have the 'death penalty'. What he did to people is worse than just receiving a lifetime ban.

We must not forget that Armstrong was not just another doper. He destroyed careers and took the sport deeper into doping and the levels of manipulation were massive.

Hein is another IOC mafioso. There are many. Expecting IOC to clean up is crazy.

 

[DirtyWorks]

...
We must not forget that Armstrong was not just another doper. He destroyed careers and took the sport deeper into doping and the levels of manipulation were massive.

Hein is another IOC mafioso. There are many. Expecting IOC to clean up is crazy.

All true. The problems with Armstrong actually going straight are:

#1 He's no longer a legend in his own mind. He'd have to be another person entirely. The lies have changed, but other than that he's not changed a single bit. We still don't know if he can tell truth from fiction.

#2 It gives some life to the scale of corruption at the IOC sport federation level. Fundamentally, that's a big part of what still goes on at least in cycling. Bach will not like the IOC image of sport tarnished regardless of how many viewers cycling delivers.

He can rewrite some stuff for Cookson's show and it should look as ridiculous as his latest round of promotional interviews if it goes public. Fight Wonderboy! Fight!

 

[Benotti69]

Man, I can't wait for that T and R **** to start.... Sorry - gotta go play golf now....it's sooooo self-policing..

Armstrong thinks T&R is a get out of jail free card. If it proves to be it will mean that nothing will change in sport. I think Cookson will let Armstrong go free!

 

[sniper]

All true. The problems with Armstrong actually going straight are:

#1 He's no longer a legend in his own mind. He'd have to be another person entirely. The lies have changed, but other than that he's not changed a single bit. We still don't know if he can tell truth from fiction.

#2 It gives some life to the scale of corruption at the IOC sport federation level. Fundamentally, that's a big part of what still goes on at least in cycling. Bach will not like the IOC image of sport tarnished regardless of how many viewers cycling delivers.

He can rewrite some stuff for Cookson's show and it should look as ridiculous as his latest round of promotional interviews if it goes public. Fight Wonderboy! Fight!

sure, but it's not all about lance telling the truth. what if he can showthe truth? what if he has actual documents/emails, etc. implicating heinous? not that i think he does, but he might and then it might be worth hearing lance sing.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Armstrong thinks T&R is a get out of jail free card. If it proves to be it will mean that nothing will change in sport. I think Cookson will let Armstrong go free!

While I think that is the point of the discussed show, he can't. Bach has spoken clearly on the matter and Cookson has no choice but to do as he wishes.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/mo...ioc-lance-armstrong-doping-sochi-olympics.ap/