Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession)

[Race Radio]

Hog, I don't know why you bring Vaughters into this. It's totally different as Crow had a personal relationship where she had Lance's ear and could directly try and influence his behaviour.

Judging by her company with Lance on his transfusion trip to Belgium she did jack **** and was happy at helping continuing the myth by saying nothing while Greg, Emma and Betsy were getting decimated. All this when Crow knew they were telling the truth. It does not look well on her one bit.

Betsy is more than entitled to ask questions of her silence during this period.

Crow even went on talk shows after the Landis and Hamilton allegations broke and told everyone the allegations were nonsense and he trained harder then anyone.....even though she knew better

 

[Race Radio]

If people want to blame others for standing by while Armstrong destroyed people then fire should be directed at JV. He knew. He kept quiet. Even after Landis came forward, he kept quiet. One detailed interview at that time would have brought Armstrong down. Instead he played both ends against the middle to enrich himself.

Not exactly. He had his all his riders and staff talk to USADA.

Crow refused to talk to USADA

 

[Wallace]

Blaming someone girlfriend is idiotic. Will Betsy blame Matthew Mcougna-however-you-spell-it next? She really should have kept her mouth shut about Crow. It makes what Armstrong said about her being obsessed and unbalanced look true.

If people want to blame others for standing by while Armstrong destroyed people then fire should be directed at JV. He knew. He kept quiet. Even after Landis came forward, he kept quiet. One detailed interview at that time would have brought Armstrong down. Instead he played both ends against the middle to enrich himself.

Or it could have brought on a monstrous law suit with LA suing him backed by the UCI, and Vaughters could have lost his team. Now that we're living in the post-reasoned decision world we see LA is vulnerable. Before then, if you can remember all that way back, he looked pretty indestructible. I'm not saying that it wouldn't have been great if JV had gone all in with Landis, but he's a business man, and business men are by nature cautious and calculating. He probably saw the odds and did not like them one little bit. Other people may feel fine judging him for that (and what is the Clinic, if not the ultimate moral arbiter on all cycling matters) but I don't.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

As for Crow, who cares what some drunk rockstar has to say? Her music sucks, but she has a pretty mouth, so dudes give her a pass. Fu*k her regardless of what she knew. The world needs less sh!tty music, and every day she creates more, therefore, no quarter will be given regardless of topic.

 

[thehog]

No she doesn't. Lance has the right to deny her testimony because of confidential communications to a spouse, but that is not the same as spousal privilege. For spousal privilege, you need to be a spouse. She ain't that anymore. For confidential communications, you need to have made the communications when you were married, but you no longer need to be married to claim the privilege.

Plus, in most states, the testifying spouse holds the privilege with spousal privilege, not the defendant spouse (which is irrelevant here, because Kik isn't a spouse anymore). With confidential communications, both hold the privilege regardless of current marital status so long as the communications were made during the marriage. For anything she knows after they were married, a contractual agreement might protect the information (thought there is an argument a court would not allow her to abide by those terms if the plaintiff needs the information), but if not, she may claim 5th Amendment protection if she might be criminally implicated, but if not, she has to testify truthfully or face contempt of court.

Sorry, I'm studying for the bar, and the details matter.

Respect. Thanks for the update. Good information

Edit: Can Crow claim the same? Being only a girlfriend? ie private conversations?

 

[thehog]

Crow refused to talk to USADA

When USADA runs testing for the American music industry then it can start interviewing middle-aged rock stars.

But seriously USADA has better things to do. Nothing wrong with them asking but I'm sure Travis wasn't pinning his case on Crow.

I'm not advocating bullying or promoting the illegalities of Lance's activities but Crow was jettisoned into his world for what 6 months?

She was in love. She wrote an album about him. She's a nonce. But it's also not her responsibility to clean up cycling. She was dumped hard by Lance. She has suffered enough. Let's not let the girls fight this one out - this is not the real lives of Jersey housewives!

Crow is a bit player in all of this. She stood by her man. That's not a crime. I'm sure she's seen drug use for years on the road. Leave her be.

Our focus should be on Vaughters. He was telling us about "miscalibrated" machines for years and how he never saw EPO at Postal. He stood by. And look how he dealt with Ryder.

It's a matter or opinion but let's not drag the partners of the players into all of this. BA chooses to be involved. Crow not but she hasn't side stepped her responsibility to the law.

The whole tale is sad. Lance ruined a lot of people. But let's not mess up crow's world. I'm not in support of doing that.

 

[gooner]

Crow even went on talk shows after the Landis and Hamilton allegations broke and told everyone the allegations were nonsense and he trained harder then anyone.....even though she knew better

And that's the thing. After the confession, going on Piers Morgan saying he's totally irrelevant and it was a bad time in her life trying to distance herself from any association with him with this revisionism.

Even in the link she just puts it as "his story" but it's a story she seems to forget she was engaged to at one point.

 

[andy1234]

Again, you should read what Betsy actually said. Crow stood by while Lance ruined people. She was there for the the height of the bullying. LeMond, Anderson, Frankie, Betsy.

She stood by and did nothing. You are ok with ignoring lance working to destroy people's life, most are not.

Betsy Andreau sure seems to know how other people should live their lives.
I imagine she sees a lot of "unconscionable" behaviour from her lofty position.

 

[thehog]

Hog, I don't know why you bring Vaughters into this. It's totally different as Crow had a personal relationship where she had Lance's ear and could directly try and influence his behaviour.

Judging by her company with Lance on his transfusion trip to Belgium she did jack **** and was happy at helping continuing the myth by saying nothing while Greg, Emma and Betsy were getting decimated. All this when Crow knew they were telling the truth. It does not look well on her one bit.

Betsy is more than entitled to ask questions of her silence during this period.

I bring Vaughters into for the point of irony.

If we wish to lambast Crow because she fell in love with a guy for 6 months and got the hell out when she realised he wasn't who he said he was and not a guy who perpetrated the myth of Lance for years then I think we've all lost our marbles.

Let her be.

"No evidence of EPO" during Vaughters time at Postal

(August 2005)

"I was thinking back (to that time) and I remember I could feel that we (USPS) were going to be real contenders for the Tour. So I called Johan (Bruyneel) and asked him if there was anything I should be worried about. He assured me and said, 'we're not going to be doing any of that (doping)'. Basically, he said there was none of that (in the team). There would be nothing to worry about."

Still, it was Vaughters himself who received a fright at the pre-Tour medical tests, as his hematocrit posted a 51 percent reading, above the UCI's limit of 50 percent, but still under his special dispensation of 52 percent. (Frequent testing had shown that Vaughters - like many good climbers - have naturally high hematocrit levels and they are granted dispensation from doctors.)

"I'd never tested (at a race) above 50 percent, except before the start of the '99 Tour," he said. "I told the team doctor 'don't worry, I've got a certificate, I've got a hall-pass for this'," he recalled. "But the doctor said it wasn't me they were worried about, it was that the whole team was very close (to the 50 percent limit)."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/no-evidence-of-epo-during-vaughters-time-at-postal-1

 

[Race Radio]

I'm not advocating bullying or promoting the illegalities of Lance's activities but Crow was jettisoned into his world for what 6 months?

3 years. Saw the transfusions, knew Floyd was telling the truth, still had no problem babbling nonsense about what a great hero he was and dismissed what Floyd, Tyler, Betsy, and others were saying. Wonder what she thought when Mike Anderson was laying on the floor having a seizure while lance yelled at him?

You can deflect all you want but Betsy is right. Crow stood by while good people were ruined. Called the doping allegations tiresome and a nuisance. You are OK with ignoring that but don't be surprised if most are not

 

[thehog]

You can deflect all you want but Betsy is right. Crow stood by while good people were ruined. You are OK with ignoring that but don't be surprised if most are not

But I'm not deflecting. I'm discussing the intricacies of the issue. There's a difference. That's how intelligent people discuss complex topics. They don't get upset if someone has a counter or alternate view.

Additionally trying to direct the focus that somehow I'm personally advocate bullying or illegalities is a little silly. Try not to be so sensitive. I'm not criticising you personally.

Crow spoke with the Feds. That is what normal people do. They don't fight it out on the pages of the tabloids. They speak with the appropriate legal authorities.

Or are ok with grand jury testimony being all over the newspapers because Crow blabbed? most are not.

 

[Race Radio]

I bring Vaughters into for the point of irony.

If we wish to lambast Crow because she fell in love with a guy for 6 months

Nah, you are just trying to deflect. I used to have the same misguided idea that JV speaking up publicly would have fixed everything. Then I saw the effect getting his riders to talk had. Never would have been able to do that without a team. Regardless JV talked to USADA in 2004

3 years, not 6 months. Math is not your strength is it?

 

[Race Radio]

But I'm not deflecting. I'm discussing the intricacies of the issue. There's a difference. That's now intelligent people discuss complex topics.

Additionally trying to direct the focus that somehow I'm personally advocate bullying or illegalities because is a little silly. Try not to be so sensitive. I'm not criticising you personally.

Crow spoke worth the Feds. That is what normal people do. They don't fight it out on the pages of the tabloids. They speak with the appropriate legal authorities.

Or are ok with grand jury testimony being all over the newspapers because Crow blabbed? most are not.

Nice deflection. You really should read what Betsy said. Nothing to do with the Feds, USADA, etc. Crow stood by while good people were destroyed.

But I am glad you agree that talking to the authorities is the right thing to do. JV talked to USADA in 2004 and unlike Crow and the Feds there was no need for a Subpoena, he volunteered

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Respect. Thanks for the update. Good information

Edit: Can Crow claim the same? Being only a girlfriend? ie private conversations?

Nope, she's hosed if she goes under oath (unless she pleads the 5th for conduct she undertook). She had no recognized fiduciary relationship or right to hold a confidence. She was just his main squeeze.

 

[thehog]

Nice deflection. You really should read what Betsy said. Nothing to do with the Feds, USADA, etc. Crow stood by while good people were destroyed.

I've read what Betsy said. Out of respect I won't link it here.

I also respect Crow because she was diagnosed with breast cancer at the time of her breakup.

But maybe that makes her a weak women as described?

I don't think there's much to gain from the sisterhood beating up on each other. Nothing. Crow is the not lynchpin to this situation.

But there's nothing stopping you from telling the forum in regards to your dislike of Crow. Be my guest.

 

[Race Radio]

And that's the thing. After the confession, going on Piers Morgan saying he's totally irrelevant and it was a bad time in her life trying to distance herself from any association with him with this revisionism.

Even in the link she just puts it as "his story" but it's a story she seems to forget she was engaged to at one point.

She also "forgets" that when Landis met with Och to discuss coming clean it was at Crow's house (Och and Crow are still friends).

She knew Floyd was telling the truth but stood by her "Hero"

 

[Race Radio]

I don't think there's much to gain from the sisterhood beating up on each other. .

Standing by while someone gets destroyed is now called "Sisterhood"?

 

[thehog]

But I am glad you agree that talking to the authorities is the right thing to do. JV talked to USADA in 2004 and unlike Crow and the Feds there was no need for a Subpoena, he volunteered

I would add in 2005 there was no Federal case against Armstrong. Crow couldn't possibly speak with Federal agents. Why would she? There was no case. That is a little silly.

Additionally Crow is not an athlete so she's not going to be talking to USADA.

When there was a federal case you are called up. That she did.

 

[thehog]

Nope, she's hosed if she goes under oath (unless she pleads the 5th for conduct she undertook). She had no recognized fiduciary relationship or right to hold a confidence. She was just his main squeeze.

Cheers. So her day in court will come? She'll have to tell all.

 

[Race Radio]

I would add in 2005 there was no Federal case against Armstrong. Crow couldn't possibly speak with Federal agents. Why would she? There was no case. That is a little silly.

Additionally Crow is not an athlete so she's not going to be talking to USADA.

When there was a federal case you are called up. That she did.

Cool story Bro.....

Now back to what Betsy said. Standing by while good people were destroyed. You are cool with that, most are not.

 

[Race Radio]

Remember when Lance met with Frankie to pressure him into signing a false affidavit?

http://d3epuodzu3wuis.cloudfront.net/Andreu+Frankie+Affidavit.pdf

“76 After that, Lance called me to his room to discuss the situation. He told me that Bill Stapleton wanted total to me about the hospital room and have my wife sign a statement of support for Lance saying the hospital room incident did not happen.
His then girlfriend at the time, Sheryl Crow was in the room, and I felt uncomfortable about this in front of her, so I did not say much. "

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Cheers. So her day in court will come? She'll have to tell all.

She may never testify if nobody needs or cares what she has to say. If she has information they need, they may subpoena her. Honestly, at this point, I'm not sure they need her.

 

[thehog]

Remember when Lance met with Frankie to pressure him into signing a false affidavit?

http://d3epuodzu3wuis.cloudfront.net/Andreu+Frankie+Affidavit.pdf

Yes it was in Frankie's affidavit you linked.

As was this:

Which is the exact position of Crow.

Frankie husband (partner of Betsy) did not want to give evidence voluntary. Only under a subpoena was he compelled to tell his story.

I have the greatest respect for the Anderu's and how their lives and careers were ruined by Armstrong.

But Frankie held the same position as Crow. And Crow was his fiancé. Why is she different than Frankie?

I'm not sure you're making a very strong argument to why Crow should have "done something" - what was it you were expecting her to do in this situation?

Was she in the hospital room in 1998? No. I assume she believed her soon to be husband.

That's fairly standard behaviour for a soon to be wife to believe her husband.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Remember when Lance met with Frankie to pressure him into signing a false affidavit?

http://d3epuodzu3wuis.cloudfront.net/Andreu+Frankie+Affidavit.pdf

I will never forget when Wonderboy made Versus send over Frankie to interview him...guy really does get the yellow jersey for biggest dou(hebag in history.

 

[Race Radio]

Yes it was in Frankie's affidavit you linked.

As was this:

Which is the exact position of Crow.

Frankie husband (partner of Betsy) did not want to give evidence voluntary. Only under a subpoena was he compelled to tell his story.

I have the greatest respect for the Anderu's and how their lives and careers were ruined by Armstrong.

But Frankie held the same position as Crow. And Crow was his fiancé. Why is she different than Frankie?

More deflection.

You really should read what Betsy said. We are not talking about testimony in an insurance case, we are talking about standing by while people's lives were ruined. When Landis opened up to Och it was at her house. He talked about how it tormented him to continue to live lie. She did nothing

It is a pretty simple concept, I wonder why you keep trying to twist it? It almost seems like you have some agenda