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Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession)

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Aug 13, 2009
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MarkvW said:
Transfusions and EPO do not appear to be mutually exclusive. Dopers use both.

I think it's naive to conclude that if Hein took bribes, that he only took bribes from Lance.

Yes, they did.....to keep their off score right.

Riis was taking 2000 ius of EPO every 3 days. Combine this with Transfusions and you end up dead.

Bribes? That is small time. Did any other team managers do his banking like Och? Any other riders work with him on business deals worth hundreds of millions?
 
BroDeal said:
Unless you are prepared to present evidence that nearly everyone who placed in the top ten was wrongly convicted of doping then this statement is so divorced from reality that it appears idiotic.



We now know that USADA was not even going to suspend most of the witnesses. That was only changed to six months of off-season suspension when some found out they were not getting the same deal. The difference in treatment looks ridiculous, especially when Tygart keeps claiming he would have treated everyone the same. "Talk to me and get no ban. Don't talk and get life." There is no proportionality there.

Give up on the most sophisticated doping program public relations con. There has been nothing to show that Postal's program was much different than T-Mobile's or Kelme's or Liberty Seguros' or Rabobank's or ONCE's or TVM's or Festina's or... In fact, Postal confining the high octane stuff to a handful of riders who were doing the Tour looks rather conservative. Tygart cannot even keep track of which doper was the most sophisticated. Just last month he was telling everyone that A-Rod, with his piddling HGH plus IGF-1, was on the most potent doping regime ever. He apparently forgot that his own agency, just a few years before, busted a lab making its own undetectable steroids.

1. You have a really skewed view of idiotic. We know LA cheated, therefore he is gone from the record books as though he did not compete. Now it is up to the ASO/TDF to determine if the others 2 through 10 cheated as well. If not they remain in the books. That is not idiotic it is logical.

2. I agree there is lack of proportionality in the sentence of Arnstrong and the others such as Hincapie et al. But on the other hand there is a basketfull of aggravating circumstances in LA's case that justifies the life time ban. I don't need to repeat these aggravating circumstances here because they are widely known and contained in the Reasoned Decision.

I agree the others should have received suspensions of at least 2 years.

3. The public relations con of USPS was greater than that of the other teams because the con was better organized, it targeted the TDF, the USPS was winning and more importantly because of Livestrong.

a. Armstrong raised money off of his "wins" for cancer (Livestrong.org) on the basis of fraud. He gave cancer victims false hope. His message of false hope was reprehensible.

b. He also raised money for himself through Livestrong.com his personal business. For example he would charge appearance fees to all manner of organizations for speaking engagements or charge back expenses and fees to Livestrong.org.

This egregious behaviour makes the other teams doping programs pale in comparison.

Your crticism of Tygart is not warranted. USADA had nothing to do with A-Rod. That was stricltly Major League Baseball and A-Rod's case is irrelevant to the cons of cycling teams!
 
Race Radio said:
Yes, they did.....to keep their off score right.

Riis was taking 2000 ius of EPO every 3 days. Combine this with Transfusions and you end up dead.

Bribes? That is small time. Did any other team managers do his banking like Och? Any other riders work with him on business deals worth hundreds of millions?

I wasn't suggesting EPO and transfusions concurrently.
As to your loaded questions . . .. I'd suggest that if you are going to assert something as fact, you ought to simply do so.
 
May 27, 2012
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MarkvW said:
I wasn't suggesting EPO and transfusions concurrently.
As to your loaded questions . . .. I'd suggest that if you are going to assert something as fact, you ought to simply do so.

you mean like you?

MarkvW said:
Read hiero2's post. The one that says "two sides to the story" and "no way to validate."

That's where I'm coming from.

Use your noggin. We know Papp asked for people's names, but how in the world could CN have ever learned that Papp gave those names to anybody else in particular unless Papp or the recipient admitted it?

I can have my suspicions, but that's about it. Besides, the dopedealing sleaze doesn't participate here any more, so what's the big deal?

I'd say that the guy who wrote that EPO was only used as a recovery drug, and that anyone who thought different didn't know anything about doping should probably skip this topic completely...
 
ChewbaccaD said:
you mean like you?



I'd say that the guy who wrote that EPO was only used as a recovery drug, and that anyone who thought different didn't know anything about doping should probably skip this topic completely...

Ahh, the ChewbaccaD / RaceRadio tag team. A guaranteed ban for anybody who goes against it. Sorry, not for me today.
 
May 27, 2012
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MarkvW said:
Ahh, the ChewbaccaD / RaceRadio tag team. A guaranteed ban for anybody who goes against it. Sorry, not for me today.

Your own trolling got you banned. All that crap about Frankie helping Armstrong dope. Trolling will get you a troll ban. Deal with it.
 
May 27, 2012
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MarkvW said:
It's interesting, but you mischaracterized my posts last time you attempted to discuss it. So . . . I'm not going there with you.

I "mischaracterized?" Um, your exact words were "summary judgment" and you also stated clearly that the integration clause precluded the re-opening of the case. If you want to lie now and pretend you didn't, hey, go for it. You're only lying to yourself.

But I gotta say, for an ironclad integration clause, this sure has gone a lot further than your posts suggest. My posts suggests exactly what's happening, so...well, yea, you'd probably be better putting this in the same category as your discussion of EPO. Just avoid it.

So, well, hey, I graduated in December and I'm taking that bar exam thing in a month. If you're gonna try to hex me or put the bad ju ju on me, now's the time.
 
ChewbaccaD said:
I "mischaracterized?" Um, your exact words were "summary judgment" and you also stated clearly that the integration clause precluded the re-opening of the case. If you want to lie now and pretend you didn't, hey, go for it. You're only lying to yourself.

But I gotta say, for an ironclad integration clause, this sure has gone a lot further than your posts suggest. My posts suggests exactly what's happening, so...well, yea, you'd probably be better putting this in the same category as your discussion of EPO. Just avoid it.

So, well, hey, I graduated in December and I'm taking that bar exam thing in a month. If you're gonna try to hex me or put the bad ju ju on me, now's the time.

Well, good luck with the bar.
 
Aug 13, 2009
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roundabout said:
What was Vinokourov on in 2003 then?

Good question. Jan as well.

The Frieburg report is pretty detail about Telekom's doping program and it certainly was more conservative then anything Lance or Tyler were doing....but several Telekom riders did not participate in the program and ran their own program. Jan, for example, stopped using the team program in 99. Some of the concoctions he used are scary.
 
Race Radio said:
Good question. Jan as well.

The Frieburg report is pretty detail about Telekom's doping program and it certainly was more conservative then anything Lance or Tyler were doing....but several Telekom riders did not participate in the program and ran their own program. Jan, for example, stopped using the team program in 99. Some of the concoctions he used are scary.

I never heard Ulle was known as a 'crazy doper'. Where have you heard that?
 
Aug 13, 2009
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red_flanders said:
Interesting comments by Armstrong, if brief.

Most of it is about what Hincapie said. Is he lying too? Doesn't read that way to me.

Funny how he changes the spin now. Must have forgotten about it when he talked to USADA and the Feds.

It is comical they pretend that Frankie was never targeted, that they never did anything to him.....yet George says

I’m not denouncing them because they went through a lot of hard times.

Which is it? Was Frankie targeted or not?

George now claims

“I know Frankie was part of the whole system as well,”

Really George? Did Frankie do transfusions? Was he part of the group that got access to the camper and motoman in 99?

This is a great line by Lance

“He never once came to us and said, ‘Golly gee, I don’t want to do this.’ ”

Funny, I thought he claimed to be "Just a rider". Now he confirms he was one of the guys in charge. That will cost him some $$$$$ in the Qui Tam case