Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession)

[Netserk]

Nobody is saying there is anything that's a lie. I didn't read it, so I will have to take the word of others. This is about the fact that there is an ulterior motive for his writing his heartfelt thoughts on the death of Marco Pantani...

I've always said that I knew there was something wrong with the guy as soon as I watched him point to the heavens (something he doesn't believe in) when Casartelli died. It was all a show that wasn't meant to focus everyone on Casartelli, it was a show of how good Lance is. This is no different. Lance wants a spotlight to show how he isn't such a bad buy, he deserves to be rehabilitated in the eyes of the public... I'm honestly perplexed at your lack of skepticism, but I still respect you as a long time poser, so we will just have to continue to disagree about it.

Freudian slip?

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Freudian slip?

No, actually it was completely innocent.

 

[frenchfry]

No, actually it was completely innocent.

So you actually meant poster? I didn't even pick that one up, thought you were outing Brodeal as a poser. All that dealing with the mind-numbing French bureaucracy has eroded my sense of humor.

 

[BroDeal]

Nobody is saying there is anything that's a lie. I didn't read it, so I will have to take the word of others. This is about the fact that there is an ulterior motive for his writing his heartfelt thoughts on the death of Marco Pantani...

I've always said that I knew there was something wrong with the guy as soon as I watched him point to the heavens (something he doesn't believe in) when Casartelli died. It was all a show that wasn't meant to focus everyone on Casartelli, it was a show of how good Lance is. This is no different. Lance wants a spotlight to show how he isn't such a bad buy, he deserves to be rehabilitated in the eyes of the public... I'm honestly perplexed at your lack of skepticism, but I still respect you as a long time poser, so we will just have to continue to disagree about it.

Just like the Hincapie issue, I don't really care about the ulterior motive when he is telling the truth. Is he using Pantani to make a point about doping in the 90s and his own doping? Sure he is, but the truth works in Armstrong's favor now.

I hope Armstrong gets over the image he has of himself as a stand up guy and burns the whole motherfcuker down with names and everything. The terms of the CIRC show that the UCI is still maintaining its fiction of a few bad apples who spoiled cycling. I want the UCI to acknowledge that the era was putrid, nearly everyone was doping, and the few oddballs who were not doping were mostly forced out of the sport. The UCI has given the least incentive to those most likely to be willing to talk. Luckily Armstrong's raging egomania gives him an incentive beyond sporting considerations to expose everyone else's doping and the corruption that went along with it. So I am all for him speaking out, even if it helps him personally.

 

[Race Radio]

Just like the Hincapie issue, I don't really care about the ulterior motive when he is telling the truth. Is he using Pantani to make a point about doping in the 90s and his own doping? Sure he is, but the truth works in Armstrong's favor now.

I hope Armstrong gets over the image he has of himself as a stand up guy and burns the whole motherfcuker down with names and everything. The terms of the CIRC show that the UCI is still maintaining its fiction of a few bad apples who spoiled cycling. I want the UCI to acknowledge that the era was putrid, nearly everyone was doping, and the few oddballs who were not doping were mostly forced out of the sport. The UCI has given the least incentive to those most likely to be willing to talk. Luckily Armstrong's raging egomania gives him an incentive beyond sporting considerations to expose everyone else's doping and the corruption that went along with it. So I am all for him speaking out, even if it helps him personally.

I don't think there is anyone these days who think it was just a few bad apples.

I doubt Lance will burn it all down as he would have to go with it. His biggest rivals of the era, Mayo, Jan, Hamilton, Pantani, were pursued aggressively by the UCI while they protected Lance. Admitting this was the case kills one element of his level playing field nonsense so I doubt he will ever talk about it

 

[gooner]

Did he fire these guys or something? Herman is an unethical ******bag.

I always remember Herman for his interview with the BBC about Lance taking a lie detector test.

 

[IzzyStradlin]

His biggest rivals of the era, Mayo, Jan, Hamilton, Pantani, were pursued aggressively by the UCI while they protected Lance. Admitting this was the case kills one element of his level playing field nonsense so I doubt he will ever talk about it

So he should just say that.

"Everyone was on drugs, Weisel and JB used a lot of my money to pay off the UCI, Verbruggen and McQuaid. I could either keep paying and keep winning or play fair, lose and end up positive."

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Just like the Hincapie issue, I don't really care about the ulterior motive when he is telling the truth. Is he using Pantani to make a point about doping in the 90s and his own doping? Sure he is, but the truth works in Armstrong's favor now.

I hope Armstrong gets over the image he has of himself as a stand up guy and burns the whole motherfcuker down with names and everything. The terms of the CIRC show that the UCI is still maintaining its fiction of a few bad apples who spoiled cycling. I want the UCI to acknowledge that the era was putrid, nearly everyone was doping, and the few oddballs who were not doping were mostly forced out of the sport. The UCI has given the least incentive to those most likely to be willing to talk. Luckily Armstrong's raging egomania gives him an incentive beyond sporting considerations to expose everyone else's doping and the corruption that went along with it. So I am all for him speaking out, even if it helps him personally.

I really did mean "poster" in complete sincerity. I will go change it now.

For the rest, I don't know that I disagree, but I do think that this is indicative of the same old Lance PR at all costs mentality. I don't mind a liar who will tell you they're a liar and end the conversation there. But I do mind a liar who pretends to tell you they are a liar, but says they were justified in lying about it, to which you can also infer that they really don't have any remorse for their actions. I don't think Armstrong should be held liable for the entirety of the cesspool of doping that was his era, but he needs to just STFU unless he is going to do what you suggest, and burn the motherfu*ker to the ground.

Lance Armstrong is no Floyd Landis. I know that Lance thinks that is a compliment, but anyone with any rational thought thinks otherwise.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

So you actually meant poster? I didn't even pick that one up, thought you were outing Brodeal as a poser. All that dealing with the mind-numbing French bureaucracy has eroded my sense of humor.

You guys hire English speaking (only) attorneys with no training what-so-ever in Napoleonic Law in your bureaucracy? I ain't from Louisiana, so I have no idea how your system works...but I love France...so I got that goin' for me.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Just like the Hincapie issue, I don't really care about the ulterior motive when he is telling the truth. Is he using Pantani to make a point about doping in the 90s and his own doping? Sure he is, but the truth works in Armstrong's favor now.

I hope Armstrong gets over the image he has of himself as a stand up guy and burns the whole motherfcuker down with names and everything. The terms of the CIRC show that the UCI is still maintaining its fiction of a few bad apples who spoiled cycling. I want the UCI to acknowledge that the era was putrid, nearly everyone was doping, and the few oddballs who were not doping were mostly forced out of the sport. The UCI has given the least incentive to those most likely to be willing to talk. Luckily Armstrong's raging egomania gives him an incentive beyond sporting considerations to expose everyone else's doping and the corruption that went along with it. So I am all for him speaking out, even if it helps him personally.

I see both you & chews points of view here - and oddly I agree with both.

I want LA to tell the truth too, all of it.
I have little doubt that what both LA & GH have said recently is true, but what we are getting is piecemeal stuff without context and that is showing that there is not a genuine act of either contrition, remorse or even benefitting the sport.
Doing it this way actually dilutes it, even when it probably is true.

 

[Granville57]

I don't know that he is capable. His calling Steve Tilford because "they needed to talk" was just another clue it is STILL the world that misunderstands the situation.

But of course it was much more than LA just "calling."

Around Thanksgiving, I got a short email...

I blew it off by sending him a back an email that was flippant...He answered back

Flash forward to December and I get a one liner asking me when I would be in Austin. I didn’t reply.

So then a couple of days ago after the post I did about George and Frankie, I get an email saying we “needed” to talk.

Then another email saying he was going to call. It was like 7am, but I was awake.

Then yesterday afternoon, my phone rang and it was the same number,

Jesus christ. Lance is still obsessed with being obsessed. I can't believe he stopped at only six obsessions though. He must be losing it.

And just think of all that extra time that Armstrong could've spent with his family instead!

 

[Tonton]

I was the carpenter, Pantani was the artist, Ullrich was the butcher, Virenque the dancer, Beloki the gardener, Jalabert the dentist, Zulle the optometrist, and Hamilton the scientist

Please someone lift his ban, so we don't get to read such BS

 

[Granville57]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/armstrong-if-i-was-the-carpenter-pantani-was-the-artist

**** CN

**** Lance

Way too obvious, especially in the second half. He's saying Marco, him etc., but he means Lance, me etc. Using the death of Pantani in his PR campaign.

Yeah, but you're the only one who saw it that way.

I see CN got out the knee pads and took Armstrong in their mouth again. Anything to help sell some wheels I guess.

Didn't read it.

CN needs to get it over with, and just have a "Lets see what Lance Armstrong thinks about this" column on their front page. I bet they could raise the rates for the ads in that section, and Lance could use a regular PR outlet rather than this piecemeal sh!t he's getting now from them. Just pay the guy and put him on staff.

In advance, you're welcome CN for the idea, but I don't want any money. I have integrity.

Once again, you've taken the rant right out of my...wait, where is this going?

No shame at BensonNews. None whatsoever.
Bravo. It had been nearly 24 hours since I saw Lance's face on the homepage. I was becoming concerned.

 

[DirtyWorks]

No shame at BensonNews. None whatsoever.
Bravo. It had been nearly 24 hours since I saw Lance's face on the homepage. I was becoming concerned.

And Bensonnews drives page views. I don't like it either, but he's trying to keep the doors open packaging and giving news away for nothing while ad rates generally decline.

 

[red_flanders]

Every time this thread jumps to the top, it's more data on how many clicks an Armstrong story will get. That and the data from Armstrong stories.

If you don't want CN to post Armstrong stories, the only way to help is not to read them.

 

[Granville57]

...and giving news away for nothing...

And half the time I still want a refund.

If you don't want CN to post Armstrong stories, the only way to help is not to read them.

Then who is going to tell ChewbaccaD what has transpired?

Think of your fellow forumites above all!

 

[Granville57]

Just like the Hincapie issue, I don't really care about the ulterior motive when he is telling the truth. Is he using Pantani to make a point about doping in the 90s and his own doping? Sure he is, but the truth works in Armstrong's favor now.

I see you're still channeling your inner, contrarian hog. That's cool, but you must admit that Lance is having his way with CN with such ease that it would nearly make Dennis Rodman blush. Surely we can agree on that?

This endless media manipulation is what some of us take issue with. The details are hardly news. We all know that Lance doped against dopers. But as far as I'm concerned, it's a bit f'cking late for Armstrong to have anything to say about it. Has he informed us of anything in this article besides the fact that he still knows how to curse (and even that comes off as contrived and somewhat immature)?

The transparency being displayed by Armstrong in all of this is embarrassing.


And I will not stand by and allow pro cycling to be embarrassed!

 

[Return of the Jedi]

Very candid article by Lance on Pantani. I thought it was well written. Armstrong remains an extremely interesting individual with a lot of stories to tell. A new book would of course receive criticism but lets face it, we'd all read it with interest.

I disagree with those who say the article was a justification of his own doping. Pantani doped to a far higher level and would never have survived at the top with the lower doping levels of the 2000s. He was a complete risk taker that did everything to the max - a different beast to Armstrong.

 

[Granville57]

You've "Returned." I see.

 

[Return of the Jedi]

Interesting discussion on Lance's early career and comparing him to the likes of Boonen and other contemporaries. Personally I think it's apples and oranges - the early 90s was the most unequal peloton in the history of the sport so comparisons are meaningless.

 

[del1962]

You've "Returned." I see.

While I can't be certain, the Dark Jedi does Rise at Knight, or something like that, I suspected as much when I saw the new poster name on the thread

 

[Bosco10]

While I can't be certain, the Dark Jedi does Rise at Knight, or something like that, I suspected as much when I saw the new poster name on the thread

Then again, this could just be a so-&-so who is having some fun in the clinic.

 

[sittingbison]

May the force be with him

 

[Granville57]

Allow me to translate some of that article.

I'll never forget when I heard about Marco's passing.

Feigned emotion from someone who has, in the past, consistently demonstrated zero capacity for true empathy. But maybe this will make him appear to me more "human"!

Ironically, and I remember it like it was yesterday, earlier that day I was having a conversation with Michele Ferrari.

"You see people! It's just ordinary stuff! We all spoke to our doping docs on a regular basis, just like anyone else. Just a normal conversation between two normal people. Everything we did was normal!"

"Pantani is dead". I sat there alone, and thought "Fuck!".

("That's what a normal person would think and say, right?. Yeah, I'll put the F-word in. I'll come off as sounding so genuine if I do that. Damn, I am so much smarter than that troll Benson.")

It's nearly ten years since his passing but I still remember my very first race with him. It was at the Tour of Mexico, in 1994. I was there with Motorola and Carerra were there with Chiapucci and Pantani too

"You see, all this "doping stuff"? It all goes so far back, and includes so many other famous names. IT WASN'T JUST ME. PLEEEEEEAAASE LET ME BACK IN TO THE SPORT!!!!!!!!"

There was this whole plot between Evgeni Berzin and Miguel Indurain

"REMEMBER THOSE NAMES! IT WASN'T JUST ME!"

He was a complicated enigma, who had a lot of character, a ton (this is how yanks spell this word) of charisma and people were compelled by him and the way in which he flew up mountains.

"See how I cleverly dropped that "Yank" term in there? Did ya' see that? I'm just a regular guy, with regular jokes. That's me: Mr. Regular. Seven times more regular than the average Joe."
[And sure, it was the "charisma" that allowed Marco to "fly" up those mountains]

There weren't these huge gestures or flamboyance, like you had with other Italians

"You want me to name names? To continue old grievances? Don't think I won't."

I remember how he used to be surrounded by his entire team in the peloton, almost to the point where it was annoying. We did some of that too,

"LMAO! I just trolled the entire CN forum with that one! Damn, if only I could get Benson to insert a Rick-Rolled link on that phrase. Oh man, I kill myself sometimes."

As an American coming over and playing a European sport, I was in a different position. I was on the other side, not part of the ingrained culture and seen by some as the outsider.

"I didn't start any of this. I actually HATE doping, but those damn Europeans, led by the backstabbing Verbruggen forced my hand. I was clean and innocent before I ever arrived on that stupid continent."

If I was the carpenter...

"Just call me Jesus. It feels right."

there was a bit of a back-story there too. In 1998, Pantani trounced the field

There was doping before my time. WHY AREN'T YOU PEOPLE CELEBRATING ME THE WAY YOU CELEBRATE PANTANI?!?!?!"

He had that anger inside him that meant he fought for everything. Maybe it was a bit of a Napoleon complex,

"F'ck him. He's dead. Why shouldn't I take another jab at him?"



OK...this is too much even for me. I'm going to have to hand this off to someone else. Just too much material here for one go. I'll leave it with just one more.

If I could go back I would handle quite a few relationships differently

"Howdy, folks. It's me, the new and improved, humbled and humiliated, all around nice guy, Lance. See how nice and humble I am? Yup, I sure have changed lately."

 

[ChewbaccaD]

May the force be with him

I have to admire his resolve...wait, no I don't.