Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession)

[Dr. Maserati]

Aw ok - now it makes sense.

 

[Granville57]

Aw ok - now it makes sense.

Dig that Maillot Jaune.

 

[86TDFWinner]

There was this whole plot between Evgeni Berzin and Miguel Indurain

Is this Wonderboy's way of "outing" Miggy as a doper?

 

[the sceptic]

Is this Wonderboy's way of "outing" Miggy as a doper?

He is so eaten up with jealousy over Indurain that he has to drop a subtle hint that only clinic detectives will pick up on.

 

[Fausto's Schnauzer]

Or "looking for the real killer."


Oh wait, sorry. Wrong guy.

 

[thehook]

The man (Armstrong) doped. He ruined lives. IMHO. It is never to late to do right. Let the man live. He carries his burdens. That is for him to bear.
I enjoyed reading the article.
Just my .02$

Cheers

 

[gooner]

More from Emma.

In the first incident, O’Reilly claims Armstrong’s team boss, Johan Bruyneel, was alerted to a problem with the rider’s drug test through a phone call from doping control. In what would have been a serious breach of UCI protocol, this call was made by a UCI doping official using the mobile telephone of another US Postal rider.

Secondly, she claims to have witnessed Armstrong telephone the then UCI president, Hein Verbruggen, to demand an ‘over-zealous’ race commissar should be banned from officiating at future races.

Verbruggen, who was unavailable for comment on Thursday, has also denied having what might be considered an inappropriate relationship with the sport’s top riders.

But, for the first time, O’Reilly reveals a conversation Armstrong had with Verbruggen after the Texan had won a race in Germany in 1998.

‘We were in the team car at the end of the race,’ O’Reilly recalls. ‘I was about to drive Lance and one of the other riders to the airport. Lance called Hein and said words to the effect of, “That race commissar, I never want to see that guy again”.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ot...-chiefs-helped-drug-cheat-Armstrong-hook.html

 

[Archibald]

'Lance the Carpenter' just does not have a ring to it, but 'Lance the Plank', now that i can buy.......will Ma Armstrong be declaring a virgin birth 40 odd years ago sometime soon

Was it Herman they called "The Master of disaster" or was that some other Armstrong ****** bag? Herman should've "distanced himself" from Cancer Jesus the second he got on D'Oprah and "confessed".

just joining some dots...

 

[Dear Wiggo]

just joining some dots...

we could extend this further with joinery being the act of joining dots. or bits of wood, that a carpenter would work with.

etc

 

[kingjr]

Verbruggen, who was unavailable for comment on Thursday, has also denied having what might be considered an inappropriate relationship with the sport’s top riders.

Verbruggen has no time to answer calls right now, he's in Sochi enjoying the dutch domination in speedskating. At least he was when Sven Kramer won the 5k.

 

[86TDFWinner]

He is so eaten up with jealousy over Indurain that he has to drop a subtle hint that only clinic detectives will pick up on.

I'm glad we both figured it out.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

More from Emma.





http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ot...-chiefs-helped-drug-cheat-Armstrong-hook.html

I liked the headline, bit of a pun on Lance the carpenter.
"How cycling's chiefs helped get drug cheat Armstrong off the hook".

Hopefully Lance will respond that he was just trying to level the playing field.

 

[TheGame]

Whats with these posters with 1-20 posts coming out in support of Armstrong.

Is it 2009 all over again

 

[mewmewmew13]

I liked the headline, bit of a pun on Lance the carpenter.
"How cycling's chiefs helped get drug cheat Armstrong off the hook".

Hopefully Lance will respond that he was just trying to level the playing field.

I own a stud finder and it never did point toward Armstrong..

 

[Granville57]

Hopefully Lance will respond that he was just trying to level the playing field.

I wood hope so. It's as plane as day.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Whats with these posters with 1-20 posts coming out in support of Armstrong.

Is it 2009 all over again

I'm sorry, who were you posting as then?

 

[Race Radio]

More from Emma.

Lance called Hein and said words to the effect of, “That race commissar, I never want to see that guy again”.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ot...-chiefs-helped-drug-cheat-Armstrong-hook.html

With the "Level Playing Field" I assume Marco also had Hein's number to call him and tell him to keep the commissar away

Everyone was doing it

 

[aphronesis]

With the "Level Playing Field" I assume Marco also had Hein's number to call him and tell him to keep the commissar away

Everyone was doing it

For the sake of argument, name me a professional occupation in which such asymmetries of power and influence do not exist? That's less interesting than the following question, which would be: what measures do you imagine would be sufficient and necessary to prevent such asymmetries from occurring over and again in any of those fields?

The abuse of power in this one? Probably not. Not on the same terms.

So, to invoke Brodeal a few days ago: I wonder what it is that you and several of the posters on the previous page expect to change when you/they invoke the same cliches and arguments over and again? True or not as they may be.

Comfort and familiarity of repetition?

 

[Race Radio]

For the sake of argument, name me a professional occupation in which such asymmetries of power and influence do not exist? That's less interesting than the following question, which would be: what measures do you imagine would be sufficient and necessary to prevent such asymmetries from occurring over and again in any of those fields?

The abuse of power in this one? Probably not. Not on the same terms.

So, to invoke Brodeal a few days ago: I wonder what it is that you and several of the posters on the previous page expect to change when you/they invoke the same cliches and arguments over and again? True or not as they may be.

Comfort and familiarity of repetition?

Did you actually read what I wrote or were you too busy trying to think of a strawman?

Lance likes to pretend that, as you say, "asymmetries of power and influence" did not exist. The opportunities were the same for all. Level Playing field blah blah. It is clear that is not that is not the case. It is also clear that you agree with me that it is not the case.

Pretty simple

As for as the measures.....WADA was invented because of the unwillingness for the UCI to police the sport

 

[Dr. Maserati]

For the sake of argument, name me a professional occupation in which such asymmetries of power and influence do not exist? That's less interesting than the following question, which would be: what measures do you imagine would be sufficient and necessary to prevent such asymmetries from occurring over and again in any of those fields?

The abuse of power in this one? Probably not. Not on the same terms.

So, to invoke Brodeal a few days ago: I wonder what it is that you and several of the posters on the previous page expect to change when you/they invoke the same cliches and arguments over and again? True or not as they may be.

Comfort and familiarity of repetition?

Independent doping control from the governing body.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

For the sake of argument, name me a professional occupation in which such asymmetries of power and influence do not exist? That's less interesting than the following question, which would be: what measures do you imagine would be sufficient and necessary to prevent such asymmetries from occurring over and again in any of those fields?

The abuse of power in this one? Probably not. Not on the same terms.

So, to invoke Brodeal a few days ago: I wonder what it is that you and several of the posters on the previous page expect to change when you/they invoke the same cliches and arguments over and again? True or not as they may be.

Comfort and familiarity of repetition?

A more interesting question to me is precisely which of those asymmetries should be ignored when exposed simply because they exist in abundance elsewhere?

Even more interesting is whether we then, as human beings, have any need for morals and integrity?

Even more interesting than that is to consider whether one can claim moral integrity while diminishing the corruption and dishonesty of others simply because there are unnamed others who are also such?

 

[aphronesis]

Did you actually read what I wrote or were you too busy trying to think of a strawman?

Lance likes to pretend that, as you say, "asymmetries of power and influence" did not exist. The opportunities were the same for all. Level Playing field blah blah. It is clear that is not that is not the case. It is also clear that you agree with me that it is not the case.

Pretty simple

As for as the measures.....WADA was invented because of the unwillingness for the UCI to police the sport

Yes, I read what you wrote. (Unlike you, it might be argued in some cases.) For the sake of "fairness" let's say. I'm not interested here in what "Lance likes to pretend" because, unlike you, who may have relative access and insight, and others, who mostly like to project, what he wants to pretend is a non-issue these days.

I've never not agreed with you--on the larger sketch--but it can be argued that you simplify to suit your "agenda" and that that leads to endless inane posts (ad nauseam) from others who lack your access to on the ground facts. And might be said to be your own "groupies"...

So, the issue--as has ever been with your posts--is the division between your "information" and the non-biased usefulness of your posts in regards to the larger cultural issue of this discussion. Your posts in general lack nuance on that level, and most hewing to your tack without access are even more redundant.

 

[MarkvW]

It's clear that Lance worked with Hein. It is by no means clear that Hein worked exclusively with Lance.

 

[aphronesis]

A more interesting question to me is precisely which of those asymmetries should be ignored when exposed simply because they exist in abundance elsewhere?

Even more interesting is whether we then, as human beings, have any need for morals and integrity?

Even more interesting than that is to consider whether one can claim moral integrity while diminishing the corruption and dishonesty of others simply because there are unnamed others who are also such?

Most of those are the more interesting questions to me, but this has never really been the thread--or threads--for it. More a case study. And those are ethical questions (I think) not moral--which makes this thread even less the place for them.

But as a baseline, I'd say anytime there's an extreme focus on the most egregious or abnormal example--rather than the minor and fluctuating ones--then the problem isn't strictly with the example.

 

[aphronesis]

Independent doping control from the governing body.

Sure, and that's been floated for years. But then who decides what doping control should be and why it matters?

And, since it's in this thread, it's already been well established that many don't care about doping control as long as arrogant, crass, as3holes don't exploit its malleable selectivity. So how's that going? And how is carping about this past doing anything to reform that now?