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Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession)

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On Saturday, March 22, clean pro cyclist/nice guy/Princeton grad Tyler Wren (yes, I'll put my hand in the fire for him) were part of a panel discussion with John Eustice at the Carey Institute for Global Good. Here is the video (about an hour long): http://vimeo.com/90581736

p.s. I think it's ridiculous Dr. Maserati is banned for life.
 
Jun 19, 2009
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Bosco10 said:
Sorry elizab, but I couldn't finish watching that video. The reason? John Eustice! What a shopworn tool he is.

Eustice equivocating an organized crime activity with teen dancing...priceless.
No, John; Lance didn't invent doping. Mobsters didn't invent murder, either. It's how you apply the tools of your trade that distinguish one extreme from another. Apparently you looked in the mirror and fixated on "tool".
I couldn't watch further as I need to ride this one off.
 
Oldman said:
Eustice equivocating an organized crime activity with teen dancing...priceless.
No, John; Lance didn't invent doping. Mobsters didn't invent murder, either. It's how you apply the tools of your trade that distinguish one extreme from another. Apparently you looked in the mirror and fixated on "tool".
I couldn't watch further as I need to ride this one off.

I know, I thought of that after the fact. Uh, no one ever said armstrong invented doping. Eustice does have the armstrong talking points down pat though:
1. lance didn't invent doping
2. he was no different than the rotten Euros who started the doping culture
3. smear Frankie by lies and insinuation
4. USADA is diabolical and unethical

It's entertaining - kind of like Rob Ford, Toronto's mayor - a mess you can't believe.
 
Feb 26, 2014
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elizab said:
http://olympictalk.nbcsports.com/2014/04/01/which-u-s-athletes-were-drug-tested-the-most-in-2013/
Note that lance was never ever tested more times than any other athlete by USADA. Ever. A great example of how journalists let him get away with that stupid mantra of being the most tested athlete. Why they let him get away with it and never questioned him on it I don't know.

I love USADA for publishing the indiv statistics.

On Lance being the most tested, I wonder if the 500 include all the Michele Ferrari tests? Seems like he was always talking about testing with him.
 
maybe travis should interrupt his victory lap and actually let the world know the judgement on Johan and the others.

Over three months down the line. Just because he 'got' lance, doesn't mean he can do no wrong. (Lance was handed to him on his lap btw)
 
Apr 9, 2009
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elizab said:
On Saturday, March 22, clean pro cyclist/nice guy/Princeton grad Tyler Wren (yes, I'll put my hand in the fire for him) were part of a panel discussion with John Eustice at the Carey Institute for Global Good. Here is the video (about an hour long): http://vimeo.com/90581736

p.s. I think it's ridiculous Dr. Maserati is banned for life.

I like it when John Useless says Bauer was the greatest cyclist to come out of North America (instead of Lemond, Hampsten, etc.). At least he didn't say Jonathan Boyer.
 
Digger said:
maybe travis should interrupt his victory lap and actually let the world know the judgement on Johan and the others.

Over three months down the line. Just because he 'got' lance, doesn't mean he can do no wrong. (Lance was handed to him on his lap btw)

IMHO, you are reading the situation wrong.

Apparently Johan has lawyered-up and has been grinding away at the sanctioning process. We had a case in the U.S. of a Master's rider who lawyered-up and slowed the sanctioning process down to a crawl. The rider finally got his 2-year sanction announced months after it started because of the postive. There was a statement from USADA and one from the rider and that was all.

The public conclusion of Johan's case will be interesting.
 
elizab said:
http://olympictalk.nbcsports.com/2014/04/01/which-u-s-athletes-were-drug-tested-the-most-in-2013/
Note that lance was never ever tested more times than any other athlete by USADA. Ever. A great example of how journalists let him get away with that stupid mantra of being the most tested athlete. Why they let him get away with it and never questioned him on it I don't know.

check out dim's Liggetmix
:D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXAp6Zik1KU&feature=player_embedded#at=16

"USADA….the nefarious local drug agency" :D
 
DirtyWorks said:
Maybe we should have a Jonathan Boyer thread? I'm not saying he was as good as Lemond, my recollection is he was a few years earlier than Lemond or Hampsten and at the time the U.S. was a very minor competitive cycling country. It relegated him to supporting roles in the pro peloton. It's impossible to win high-ranked races as a domestique.

Unfortunately for him, Lemond was a once-in-many-generations athlete.

If there's a Boyer thread, I'm not sure it belongs with great athletes.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2002/11/news/boyer-sentenced-to-one-year-in-jail_3238
I don't care how long ago this was, once a pedophile, always a pedophile. From Boyer's own attorney:
“What he did is a serious crime and it took him a while to understand how serious the consequences can be, but he does understand that now.”

He didn't understand the consequences of doing something sexual with a child?

Disgusted beyond words.
 
elizab said:
If there's a Boyer thread, I'm not sure it belongs with great athletes.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2002/11/news/boyer-sentenced-to-one-year-in-jail_3238
I don't care how long ago this was, once a pedophile, always a pedophile. From Boyer's own attorney:
“What he did is a serious crime and it took him a while to understand how serious the consequences can be, but he does understand that now.”

He didn't understand the consequences of doing something sexual with a child?

Disgusted beyond words.
How exactly does that matter regarding how great an athlete (Note: not person or human, but athlete) he was?
 
Netserk said:
How exactly does that matter regarding how great an athlete (Note: not person or human, but athlete) he was?

Athletes, like the rest of us, may have their proclivities but child sexual abuse negates any physical achievement in my eyes. We can agree to disagree.
 
DirtyWorks said:
Once a drug is released, it's my understanding the compound is known. Manufacturing a copycat is much simpler, but not always easy.

Doping has moved very well beyond the Wiesel->Amgen->EPO story. Generally speaking, peptides are revolutionary delivering performance enhancement without so many side effects. Peptides are relatively easy to manufacture compared to official big-pharma product.

Long before it's released the compound will be known. They are usually published in the literature, after the patent is applied for, and bringing a new drug to market takes about 10-15 years and the costs are truly staggering. Copycats can theoretically be made by anyone during those years and after, I believe Universities and other research groups are even allowed to make them as long as there is no profit involved. Not just that, the methods to make it are usually published too. So theoretically yes, once it's out there anyone can cook it up and give it to someone, but producing something of a quality that you'd be happy to give to a subject is a whole different kettle of fish.

With EPO it's much, much more difficult. Getting up the cell lines would be next to impossible for anyone without access to a decent lab.


As for peptides, it's a long time since I did amino acid chemistry but yes, I seem to remember they are relatively easy to make as long as they are small so conformation does not come into it. amino acids can also be bought very cheaply through Sigma Aldrich or similar suppliers. Perfectly possible someone if producing those...