Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession)

[Race Radio]

Good post, Granville.

Very good post Granville. Should put it in that new thread about team sponsorship.

While it is an interesting topic to discuss but it has little to do with the Qui Tam case. The damages are calculated based on how much the Postal Service would have paid if lance and friends had not lied.

Lance is well aware of this, which is why he has based his entire case on "They knew". If he is able to show that the folks at USPS knew he was lying to them and still wrote checks he has an excellent case.

Perhaps he has some evidence to support this claim but so far he has produced very little. Considering that stopping this case before it starts would save him lots of $$$ I cant image he has some magic bullet he is saving for trial....... but you never know

 

[elizab]

BroDeal give up your never going to convince RR of anything concerning LA. Even if LA loses this whole deal the amount he has to pay will never be enough for him. If LA get burned at the stake, RR would be mad they didn't hang the man. Until Betsy is happy, RR will never be happy about anything concerning LA.

You guys, I didn't realize how much fun I've been missing out on here. The laughs were well worth the return.

Onto the Salem er Austin Witch Trials please....

 

[Scott SoCal]

Yo Bro, you got me at Andreu Strategies. Can't stop laughing. And I think it's very funny you have RR working here. Actually, the morale is better here than at CSE but you seem to be content there

Carry on and pay special attention to pages 66 & 67....
Betsy (aka Besty)
CEO
Andreu Strategies

Can you tell me what position Frankie holds at Andreu Strategies?

Word on the street is Lance got him the job, care to comment on that?

Thanks in advance.

 

[RobbieCanuck]

When a person commences a lawsuit, they must have a "cause of action" (i.e. a valid legal complaint and not just some frivolous claim). That person must specifically state the cause of action in the claim document. These documents are commonly referred to as the "pleadings" and after they are filed at a courthouse the pleadings become part of the "record"

In order to support the claim the plaintiff or relator in this case must also state in the claim the facts on which they rely to prove the cause of action or claim. Generally speaking one does not plead any law in the pleadings just facts, from which it can be shown or at least reasonably be shown the facts support the cause of action.

In this case the judge appears to have found either the claim does not disclose a cause of action or that there is not a sufficient factual basis alleged in the claim that Weisel knew there was doping (I have not read the judgment, so I am not sure) This may answer your question to some degree.

If I find time to read the decision and it turns out I am not correct, I will post you.

@ Granville57

I have now read that portion of the judgment relating to Weisel and as I suspected the relators failed to allege a sufficient factual basis in the pleadings to justify a case against Weisel. The conculding comment of the judge is as follows. (I hope this helps)


"Accordingly, the relator has failed to plead facts that would establish each element necessary to establish a prima facie case against Weisel for presenting false claims pre-FERA, and this claim is dismissed without prejudice."

 

[ebandit]

why?

Race radio in another thread was saying jv is lances number one enemy...funny stuff comparing that line to the posts on this thread. Anyway this commentary on a highly secretive case is good stuff. Matlock!

rather sad that members priority is to discredit another member rather than rejoicing in the rooster coming home for lance

'pompous troll?' ............surely that's bro?

Mark L

 

[Race Radio]

@ Granville57

I have now read that portion of the judgment relating to Weisel and as I suspected the relators failed to allege a sufficient factual basis in the pleadings to justify a case against Weisel. The conculding comment of the judge is as follows. (I hope this helps)


"Accordingly, the relator has failed to plead facts that would establish each element necessary to establish a prima facie case against Weisel for presenting false claims pre-FERA, and this claim is dismissed without prejudice."

So far. This may change after a summer filled with depositions.

 

[Granville57]

@ Granville57

I have now read that portion of the judgment relating to Weisel and as I suspected the relators failed to allege a sufficient factual basis in the pleadings to justify a case against Weisel. The conculding comment of the judge is as follows. (I hope this helps)

Thanks for this and your previous post on the matter. It's appreciated.

 

[Granville57]

Can you tell me what position Frankie holds at Andreu Strategies?

Word on the street is Lance got him the job, care to comment on that?

Now we know how Lance was able to hack Betsy's computer.

It was an inside job!

 

[elizab]

Can you tell me what position Frankie holds at Andreu Strategies?

Word on the street is Lance got him the job, care to comment on that?

Thanks in advance.

Frankie is indebted to wonderboy for that although it doesn't explain how his computer was hacked into too. However, Frankie's job is minimal saying, "Yes, dear." He's gaining quite a bit of weight (I'm NOT calling him fat) so he's not able to do his duties as before - he's on the line.

That said, wonderboy or one of his own thought ex postal employee would be good for his PR ploy back in November of 2010:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jonathan-littman/wheres-lance-armstrongs-f_b_783987.html

"For the record Myers [former U.S. Postal Director of Communications] thinks the investigation 'is pretty ridiculous'" also noting how hard lance and the team worked and that he and johan "developed a strategy like to win the Tour that nobody else had done before." Did they ever!!

 

[Herbstrong]

Even if LA loses this whole deal the amount he has to pay will never be enough

from some of the stuff ive picked up from this thread and other comment sections, death wouldn't be enough.

 

[Race Radio]

Yo Bro, you got me at Andreu Strategies. Can't stop laughing. And I think it's very funny you have RR working here. Actually, the morale is better here than at CSE but you seem to be content there

Carry on and pay special attention to pages 66 & 67....
Betsy (aka Besty)
CEO
Andreu Strategies

Thank you for taking time to post here. It must be hard to find the time in your busy schedule of yelling at Frankie and eating Big Macs like they were Tic Tac's

Pages 66 & 67 of Wilkens latest ruling are certainly interesting. Even Lance's high priced liars, who are devoid of all feelings by now, must have been depressed after reading it.

Reading the various filing by the Feds, the judge, and Lance it seems clear that both sides are focusing on the false negotiations. Given the damages for these types of cases are based on what the Government would have paid if the defendants had not lied it is easier to understand Lance's often bizarre media strategy over the last 2 years.

Lance's strategy in the Qui Tam case is that the USPS must have known the team was doping. IF he can show that the USPS knew the team was doping then they suffered no damage. He will say they paid willingly, with full knowledge of the facts.

Lance's media strategy over the last few years has been focused on breaking down the myth he has built over the years. Starting with Oprah, and followed with multiple interviews, he has pushed the same message

*He doped and he is "Sorry"
*Everyone was doing it. It was part of the sport for decades, ingrained in the fabric of the sport
*Smear, or co-opt, potential witnesses

Many have wondered why he is doing this. One of the goals is to change the public perception of his doping. Ask anyone today and they will say "Of course Armstrong is a doper" .....that is precisely what he wants a jury to think, that he obviously was a doper. If they could see it then then surely "insiders" like the USPS marketing team must have known....thus no damages.

Of course we know the perception in 2000 was significantly different then it is today.... but changing the public narrative is a good way to induce amnesia and make his claim that USPS must have known more palatable to a jury.

Thanks to Hitch for giving me the heads up on this being my 10,000 post.

 

[Benotti69]

Thank you for taking time to post here. It must be hard to find the time in your busy schedule of yelling at Frankie and eating Big Macs like they were Tic Tac's

Pages 66 & 67 of Wilkens latest ruling are certainly interesting. Even Lance's high priced liars, who are devoid of all feelings by now, must have been depressed after reading it.

Reading the various filing by the Feds, the judge, and Lance it seems clear that both sides are focusing on the false negotiations. Given the damages for these types of cases are based on what the Government would have paid if the defendants had not lied it is easier to understand Lance's often bizarre media strategy over the last 2 years.

Lance's strategy in the Qui Tam case is that the USPS must have known the team was doping. IF he can show that the USPS knew the team was doping then they suffered no damage. He will say they paid willingly, with full knowledge of the facts.

Lance's media strategy over the last few years has been focused on breaking down the myth he has built over the years. Starting with Oprah, and followed with multiple interviews, he has pushed the same message

*He doped and he is "Sorry"
*Everyone was doing it. It was part of the sport for decades, ingrained in the fabric of the sport
*Smear, or co-opt, potential witnesses

Many have wondered why he is doing this. One of the goals is to change the public perception of his doping. Ask anyone today and they will say "Of course Armstrong is a doper" .....that is precisely what he wants a jury to think, that he obviously was a doper. If they could see it then then surely "insiders" like the USPS marketing team must have known....thus no damages.

Of course we know the perception in 2000 was significantly different then it is today.... but changing the public narrative is a good way to induce amnesia and make his claim that USPS must have known more palatable to a jury.

Thanks to Hitch for giving me the heads up on this being my 10,000 post.

congrats on 10,000. Now get a life

One thing Monkeymouth is right about, doping was and is ingrained in the sport, whether a USA company would know that about a European centric sport though will be hard to prove.

But no doubt all his denials over the years will be dragged out. The lawsuits against those who suggested Monkeymouth doped etc.....

It really is stacked against the guy.

 

[D-Queued]

from some of the stuff ive picked up from this thread and other comment sections, death wouldn't be enough.

You know what they say when the fish aren't biting?

Time to move to another spot.

Dave.

 

[autologous]

from some of the stuff ive picked up from this thread and other comment sections, death wouldn't be enough.

well if I had a cancer stricken kid that was using this fraudulent piece of excrement as some kind of ray of hope or inspiration, and then realized that same fraud was not only lying to my kid but using her suffering as a way to enrich himself , I'd be right there in the death-wouldn't-be-enough camp too.

 

[eleven]

The calculation will be based on how much the government would have paid if Armstrong and his buddies had not lied and deceived the government.

What leads you to that conclusion? Do you have case law to support that idea? On all 7 counts?

 

[weeniebeenie]

Listen you are on here talking as if you know what this case entails...by definition you can't know. So you are bluffing. That's the key point.

Holy ****. Are you really criticising someone for talking with certainty about something they don't know for certain? Have you ever read your Twitter feed?

 

[Race Radio]

What leads you to that conclusion? Do you have case law to support that idea? On all 7 counts?

By reading the documents filed by both sides and the judge.

Note that all 7 of the Governments charges focus on making knowingly false statements and concealing information. The core of Armstrong defense is the USPS was well aware they were doping, yet signed anyway.

There is a fair amount of information about Negotiating in Bad Faith and how damages are caculated

If a party misleads the government during the course of negotiations for a government contract, that party leaves itself open to FCA liability for all claims submitted under that particular contract even if the claims fulfill the terms of the contract itself.

By misleading the government at the negotiation stage, the defendant “taints” each and every claim that arises out of that contract irrespective of subsequent performance on any initial guarantees.

The government’s argument is that the contract would have never been agreed to in the first place had the defendant not been misleading during negotiation.

“[D]amages in these cases should be equal to the difference between what the government actually paid for the goods and services and what the government should have paid.”

How much would the USPS paid if they knew about the doping program? The Feds say zero, lance says they knew and still paid.

If the Feds are right lance has to pay $120 million. If Lance can prove they paid, even though they knew the team was doping, then he pays $0

 

[MarkvW]

The money paid to Armstrong (Tailwind, etc.) resulting from his false claim is the core of the false claim action. That amount is fixed--it's the actual payments made by USPS.

If the Government wins, then that sum gets tripled. Then, any compensatory payments made to the government (none that I'm aware of) offset that amount.

The problem with all the supposed "value" that Lance brought to the USPS is that Lance has never made an administrative claim to USPS for payment of that value. He can't say he's entitled to that money because he has never properly asked for that money.

A False Claims Act claim is different from a contract damages claim.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

This is about damages. The fact is that USPS gained hugely from its sponsorship of Tailwind. Armstrong will argue for treble net damages, which may be zero or negative. The government will request treble gross. The law is no longer clear on treble gross or treble net so one side will likely appeal and the case will drag on for a long time.

You're wrong. I know an attorney who has tried a Qui Tam case. I talked with him about damages regarding this case. You don't know what you're talking about, but keep pretending you do. And no, I'm not going to enlighten you. Do you own heavy lifting.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

The money paid to Armstrong (Tailwind, etc.) resulting from his false claim is the core of the false claim action. That amount is fixed--it's the actual payments made by USPS.

If the Government wins, then that sum gets tripled. Then, any compensatory payments made to the government (none that I'm aware of) offset that amount.

The problem with all the supposed "value" that Lance brought to the USPS is that Lance has never made an administrative claim to USPS for payment of that value. He can't say he's entitled to that money because he has never properly asked for that money.

A False Claims Act claim is different from a contract damages claim.

Generally, I don't agree with your posts, and I think BroDeal should have had to find this out himself, but spot on Mark.

Stick to ranting about teachers and chiropractors BroDeal, you're better at that.

P.S. It's really sad to see BroDeal wearing Livestrong knee pads...

 

[Merckx index]

Hey, Chewie, there are rumors LA will soon be looking for a lawyer willing to sue Weisel on a contingency basis. Could you be the guy?

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Hey, Chewie, there are rumors LA will soon be looking for a lawyer willing to sue Weisel on a contingency basis. Could you be the guy?

Not on a contingency, true retainer only.

Interestingly, I'm moving to California in a few months, so I will be in the right jurisdiction soon...

 

[Digger]

If I interact and converse with a doper, does that mean I also have blood on my hands? Worrying times. Advise please. I really don't want blood. I might faint.

 

[Fortyninefourteen]

from some of the stuff ive picked up from this thread and other comment sections, death wouldn't be enough.

Death would nowhere be enough.

Repaying everyone to the last cent....in pennies that he counted himself... might be enough.

 

[rhubroma]

BroDeal is saying, so what, USPS made out on the deal. While the case, as far as I can tell, is about whether or not public funds were used illicitly. That the sponsor benefited, or was damaged, is thus irrelevant.

How would profit change the unlawful methodology exercised, as far as the Qui Tam is concerned from legal perspective? I defer to the experts.