Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession)

[Susan Westemeyer]

Everyone cool it with the personal comments.

 

[thehog]

Exactly. Does the code stipulate the 6 months must be in the offseason?

He also assumes "if only LA would have done X" that the end game is what he dreams. They wanted JB, Ferrari, etc. instead of LA? What about the next guy? That is comical. With this 6 month get out of jail free card they should have just all piled into a limousine and went a spilled to Tygart. They could have taken their 6 months starting in October.

This and how did Vaughters insert himself into the process so deeply? How was he able to negotiate on behalf of his team the 6 month ban and in the off-season. All very strange the concessions one team received.

And when the Hesjedal issue arose again Vaughters had a front row seat to neogiate the non-ban ban.

All very fishy the entire thing...

 

[jam pants]

Rider A dopes, rider B doesn't:
A get's $fame & $glory, B get's out and can't complain.
First world problem, right? The unfair treatment of B is not an issue since A is winning on a level field

Rider A and also-ran rider C are caught and banned:
A get's banned for life, C get's 6 months.
This is major violation of the universal rights of fairness since A was clearly better than C on the level field and cheated fairly. Call in the Human Rights squadron and make sure A get's a reduction while C get's proportionally slapped on the wrist.

Let us all be on the alert for unfair punishment of cheating white male bicycle riders...

Why do I love this post so much?

 

[Pazuzu]

...the thought of him giving a penny to Floyd, is why he's still fighting a losing battle. I've said this from the beginning, he's fighting in hopes of blowing through all of his $$$, so when the dust clears, he doesn't have anything to pay the US Govt or Floyd.

.....and then he turns around and sues his lawyers for malpractice (for pursuing such an obvious loosing strategy) and gets all his money back.

 

[Bosco10]

Just read that Lance will meet again with CIRC in the near future. I think he will be back competing (triathlons?) by the time he is 45.

 

[thehog]

Just read that Lance will meet again with CIRC in the near future. I think he will be back competing (triathlons?) by the time he is 45.

He had the UCI card to play and played it at the right moment.

If it snares Hein, will it be worth a reduced ban? We shall see.

 

[DirtyWorks]

He had the UCI card to play and played it at the right moment.

If it snares Hein, will it be worth a reduced ban? We shall see.

Why would the UCI do that to themselves?

Wonderboy's stories will be more like, "Yeah, Landis was my supplier for a while. And then before that Frankie. Frankie taught me everything I know and introduced me to Ferrari."

Whatever stories Wonderboy comes up with, the CIRC will repeat as fact, constructing a ridiculous narrative.

I'm reminded of this situation where there's an investigation at a university that created a system of fake classes to keep athletes eligible. Did you know only two people in a huge university knew about it? One retired months before the story broke, the other left months before. The coaches that directed students to these classes are "sorry." That's kind of narrative is what the CIRC will construct.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/23/s...veals-shadow-curriculum-to-help-athletes.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...tion-and-the-the-myth-of-the-student-athlete/

Like the fraudulent degrees the students get to keep, Wonderboy's ban gets reduced as a result. They have already stated that.

 

[thehog]

Why would the UCI do that to themselves?

Wonderboy's stories will be more like, "Yeah, Landis was my supplier for a while. And then before that Frankie. Frankie taught me everything I know and introduced me to Ferrari."

Whatever stories Wonderboy comes up with, the CIRC will repeat as fact, constructing a ridiculous narrative.

I'm reminded of this situation where there's an investigation at a university that created a system of fake classes to keep athletes eligible. Did you know only two people in a huge university knew about it? One retired months before the story broke, the other left months before. The coaches that directed students to these classes are "sorry." That's kind of narrative is what the CIRC will construct.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/23/s...veals-shadow-curriculum-to-help-athletes.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...tion-and-the-the-myth-of-the-student-athlete/

Old UCI vs. New UCI. Not UCI as one continued entity. That's what CIRC is all about isn't it? Getting the old UCI out of the system?

Lance has cards to play. He has to play them at the right moment. That's why he's barely said anything other than "I doped".

He knows a lot more than that!

 

[Bluenote]

Lance has cards to play. He has to play them at the right moment. That's why he's barely said anything other than "I doped".

He knows a lot more than that!

Armstrong has zero credibility. Between his history of lying and lying under oath and of abusing the legal system and motives to lie - he's pretty worthless as a witness. You could never ban / fire / prosecute someone soley on Armstrong's words.

Unless he kept some corroborating evidence, his "cards" aren't worth much.

 

[Race Radio]

Why would the UCI do that to themselves?

Wonderboy's stories will be more like, "Yeah, Landis was my supplier for a while. And then before that Frankie. Frankie taught me everything I know and introduced me to Ferrari."

I doubt that kind of info would result in much reduction if he goes that route, although it would be entertaining.

For it to be of any value he would have to talk about current actions by staff and riders who are still working in the sport. It would do nothing if he says "I saw George transfuse". Verburggen/McQuaid stuff could be interesting. Weisel as well.

Ultimately USADA holds the cards. He cannot get a reduction unless they approve.

 

[thehog]

Sounds like Cookson will decide what goes, not USADA.

USADA has been somewhat sidelined via CIRC. Lets see.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Sounds like Cookson will decide what goes, not USADA.

USADA has been somewhat sidelined via CIRC. Lets see.

The bolded, IMO, is the point of the CIRC. And again, my wild guess is the reason he's kept quiet is the UCI promising him a reduction with the CIRC's Vrijman Report. Like all good stories, there will be a villain. It won't be Wonderboy. Wonderboy is the victim...

The IOC is the only organization that could stop the UCI from reducing the ban. The IOC's president Bach stated publicly Wonderboy's ban is intact. If the IOC is smart, they stick to that. We know money talks at the IOC so, who knows if Bach's view will soften.

 

[Race Radio]

Sounds like Cookson will decide what goes, not USADA.

USADA has been somewhat sidelined via CIRC. Lets see.

Not sure what you have been reading but Cookson clearly does not say that

Cookson stressed that Usada, as the sanctioning body, has sole responsibility for deciding whether Armstrong's ban is reduced or not.

"The UCI can't have much impact on his current situation because the sanctions have been imposed by Usada," said Cookson.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/cycling/24937488

David Howman, Head of WADA, does not say that

"We would hear if there were any suggestions of penalty changes and things like that, because that's where we have to be involved."

 

[RownhamHill]

Armstrong has zero credibility. Between his history of lying and lying under oath and of abusing the legal system and motives to lie - he's pretty worthless as a witness. You could never ban / fire / prosecute someone soley on Armstrong's words.

Unless he kept some corroborating evidence, his "cards" aren't worth much.

It's a rare moment on this forum that I find myself on theHog's side of the argument, but I think he's probably right about Lance having cards at CIRC/UCI to play - if he can bring himself to genuinely tell the truth for once.

As for his 'credibility' haven't we seen similar arguments with regards to Floyd Landis a few years ago?

 

[Race Radio]

The bolded, IMO, is the point of the CIRC. And again, my wild guess is the reason he's kept quiet is the UCI promising him a reduction with the CIRC's Vrijman Report. Like all good stories, there will be a villain. It won't be Wonderboy.

The other side of this is the IOC's president Bach stated publicly Wonderboy's ban is intact. If the IOC is smart, they stick to that. We know money talks at the IOC so, who knows if Bach's view will soften. The IOC is the only organization that could stop the UCI from reducing the ban.

Verbruggen and his buddies are certainly a target.

UCI staff members and many others directly or indirectly involved in the sport of cycling," the UCI said in a statement to the AP.

"The CIRC also has full access to the UCI's files and electronic data which it is reviewing as part of its inquiry,"

It appears some here are confused about who is in control of any ban reduction. There is no confusion, USADA/WADA are in charge of ban reductions

Cookson stressed that Usada, as the sanctioning body, has sole responsibility for deciding whether Armstrong's ban is reduced or not.
"The UCI can't have much impact on his current situation because the sanctions have been imposed by Usada," said Cookson.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/cycling/24937488

WADA director general David Howman

"We would hear if there were any suggestions of penalty changes and things like that, because that's where we have to be involved."

 

[bodhizaffa]

Ultimately USADA holds the cards. He cannot get a reduction unless they approve.

There's too much bad blood between him & USADA. He will never get a reduction.

 

[RownhamHill]

Verbruggen and his buddies are certainly a target.


It appears some here are confused about who is in control of any ban reduction. There is no confusion, USADA/WADA are in charge of ban reductions



http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/cycling/24937488

WADA director general David Howman

I don't think there is that much confusion here to be honest - technically it is USADA who would reduce the ban, but surely the point is if Lance actually did genuinely give up Verbruggen and McQuaid on a platter, and the UCI/CIRC recommended ban reduction was in order as a result, would USADA really dig their heels in?

Of course the above assumes genuine full disclosure (and as such is probably fantasy), and what is more likely is the managing of a narrative designed to appear to be giving something up while still trying to game the system, as per Dirty Work's post. In which case you'd hope USADA would be less likely to play.

But that's the fascinating aspect, isn't it? To be more certain of winning the PR war, and getting USADA to reduce the ban, Lance needs to give more away.

 

[RownhamHill]

There's too much bad blood between him & USADA. He will never get a reduction.

They're better people than Lance though, so we'll see.

 

[Berzin]

Ultimately USADA holds the cards. He cannot get a reduction unless they approve.

Armstrong absolutely loathes Travis Tygart, which is why he has refused more than once to meet with the USADA.

Does he really think he can circumvent this part of the process and get his lifetime ban reduced by giving testimony to the CIRC and not the USADA?

As for any info he may have that could be of use, he could throw Ferrari under the bus and expose what the actual steroid procurement network was.

 

[thehog]

It's a rare moment on this forum that I find myself on theHog's side of the argument, but I think he's probably right about Lance having cards at CIRC/UCI to play - if he can bring himself to genuinely tell the truth for once.

As for his 'credibility' haven't we seen similar arguments with regards to Floyd Landis a few years ago?

I'm not even really arguing a point. I'm just stating that Armstrong has information about the UCI and others (Weisel etc.) and he'll only use it if he gains something from it - i.e. reduced ban/settlement etc.

He would be mad to release now or prior. Is the only card he has to play in terms of real world sanctions (money etc.).

Also lends to his personality that he is always after what gains him something. I'm not sure he wants to do good in terms of 'anti-doping'.

 

[Benotti69]

There's too much bad blood between him & USADA. He will never get a reduction.

Why is he talking to CIRC then?

 

[thehog]

Why is he talking to CIRC then?

Correct. He was never able to realistically talk to Tygart considering USADAs relationship with the Feds. it was never going to happen. Whatever he said was going to be handed across.

CIRC won't be doing as such. And he wants a ban reduction.

 

[Bluenote]

It's a rare moment on this forum that I find myself on theHog's side of the argument, but I think he's probably right about Lance having cards at CIRC/UCI to play - if he can bring himself to genuinely tell the truth for once.

As for his 'credibility' haven't we seen similar arguments with regards to Floyd Landis a few years ago?

That's a big IF.

Yes, we saw that from Landis. Without coaberation by Hamilton, Zabriski, Hincape, etc... Armstrong's ban never would have happened. The USADA wanted an airtight case, not the word of an admitted liar.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Does he really think he can circumvent this part of the process and get his lifetime ban reduced by giving testimony to the CIRC and not the USADA?

Yes. There are no rules that apply to Wonderboy. It's the foundation of his athletic career and worked brilliantly. Like Hog posted, he wants to 'get something for himself' out of it anyway.

I'm unclear how a ban reduction would actually work in this situation. If the UCI directs USADA to reduce the ban that seems to me that USADA can only comply. But, I really don't know. And again, the IOC would have to be okay with it.

 

[Race Radio]

Armstrong absolutely loathes Travis Tygart, which is why he has refused more than once to meet with the USADA.

Does he really think he can circumvent this part of the process and get his lifetime ban reduced by giving testimony to the CIRC and not the USADA?

As for any info he may have that could be of use, he could throw Ferrari under the bus and expose what the actual steroid procurement network was.

Lance has actually talked and met Travis several times. Until recently they were still in discussion for a deal but very recently that stopped. Regardless of who he talks to the Feds can get their hands on his testimony via multiple channels. Lance knows this so he will not go under oath with any of them.

Travis is of the opinion that Lance would have little to add that is not already known. Perhaps, but I can think of a few things that could be of value.

It would be good if he exposes some the administrators of the sport. Steve Johnson, Verbruggen, McQuaid, Stapleton, Weisel. All should be concerned.

Current riders would be a key target. He has told friends he has dirt on Horner. Meh.....I would be more interested to hear about Contador. I can't think of any other current top riders he might have something on.

Some staff, like Freddy Viane, could be a target.....but again few that are currently active. Bruyneel is an interesting target, but he doesn't really even deny that he ran a doping program. His defense is all about jurisdiction.

I tend to agree with Travis, doubt Lance has much to add to the discussion......but who knows, he could surprise us.