Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession)

[Benotti69]

longtime lurker with a yella wristband!

 

[MarkvW]

Re:

longtime lurker with a yella wristband!

He could polish up his grammar a little bit.

 

[eleven]

Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

So... Speaking about mechanical doping when you think it's taking place is "working against the race". I wonder what "working FOR the race" might be. Duck and cover ?

It would look like Phil Liggett.

 

[Irondan]

Re: Re:

longtime lurker with a yella wristband!

He could polish up his grammar a little bit.

I assume that english is a second language with this poster, for this we'll give them a pass...

Welcome to the forum!

Keep posting, there's lot's to talk about.

 

[Netserk]

It was a reference to a former poster.

 

[@NL_LeMondFans]

Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

I find it hypocritical that Lemond accepts money from Eurosport and I believe the TDF, but yet is involved in a secret activity to find mechanical doping at the TDF - I find his moral compass to be lacking.

How so? He's commenting on the race and he's not getting any money from the TDF (where did you get that from?). Should he be a shill like Liggett, Sherwin, Roll, and countless others that praised Armstrong for years, knowing full well he was doped to the gills yet they continued lying to the public's faces, only to look like complete idiots after all that crap went down. That said, I would like to see him state his opinion directly to a rider such as Froome, rather than be all cordial and congratulatory. If you don't think he's won without some doubt, say it to his face, right?
Btw, from the 60 Minutes piece, LeMond didn't even mention Armstrong. 60 Minutes was asking LeMond what he thinks because he is the most successful American rider that doesn't have a doping stain on his career. I'm not sure my Bruyneel mentions him, but that a-hole has no credibility so he needs to just be quiet. He's just jelly that LeMond betters his manlove Lance on all levels once again.

My post is not about Armstrong so stop going off on a tangent - I don't believe you should accept money from Eurosport for adding your expertise to the TDF, and then work against the race - I have expressed the same thoughts about Landis whistle-blower case against Armstrong - I am consistent in my thoughts.

So... Speaking about mechanical doping when you think it's taking place is "working against the race". I wonder what "working FOR the race" might be. Duck and cover ?

I'd be surprised if Lemond works for Eurosport for the 2017 TDF if the train of events are correct - Of course I could be wrong !

Greg is under contract with Eurosport for this year. Since last year he asked for a lighter program, only covering the Tour and not the spring classics, in order to have more time to attend his new business, LeMond Composites.

 

[Irondan]

Re:

It was a reference to a former poster.

Ahhh, I see.

Polish was before my time as a mod so I don't pick up on those references so easy. I'll certainly take the tip though and do a little digging.

Cheers

 

[absolutely_not]

Re: Re:

longtime lurker with a yella wristband!

He could polish up his grammar a little bit.

Pheww! I was afraid you would have address the content of the post. But thanks god you're down to make assumptions on the poster and criticize my English grammar (not 1st language indeed! Sorry if I make too many mistakes)

For argument sake, let's say I'm a lifelong Lance Armstrong fan, who collects yellow wristband, who spent the last 4-5 years drowning my sorrows in alcohol and reread of It's not about the bike. And I'm an intern paid by Armstrong to post here. And also by Bruyneel because why not. And I'm Polish lost twin too (he was before my time as a lurker so I didn't pick up the reference either. But I heard of him)

So what?

You were finding DamianoMachiavelli "Utterly unpersuasive" Did you now change your mind? I guess so since you only respond by "attacking the Messenger"

You're welcolme

 

[MarkvW]

Re: Re:

longtime lurker with a yella wristband!

He could polish up his grammar a little bit.

Pheww! I was afraid you would have address the content of the post. But thanks god you're down to make assumptions on the poster and criticize my English grammar (not 1st language indeed! Sorry if I make too many mistakes)

For argument sake, let's say I'm a lifelong Lance Armstrong fan, who collects yellow wristband, who spent the last 4-5 years drowning my sorrows in alcohol and reread of It's not about the bike. And I'm an intern paid by Armstrong to post here. And also by Bruyneel because why not. And I'm Polish lost twin too (he was before my time as a lurker so I didn't pick up the reference either. But I heard of him)

So what?

You were finding DamianoMachiavelli "Utterly unpersuasive" Did you now change your mind? I guess so since you only respond by "attacking the Messenger"

You're welcolme

Why? You didn't present a single example of a lie. You only present innuendo.

 

[absolutely_not]

Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

What... wait, what?

Explain to me, please, how is telling doping started one year when you know it acyually started years before, not a lie? Or telling a certain event did not happen when you know it did? Or saying someone was "fire" whan you know he wasn't?

Innuendo? What are you even taking about?
Man, seriously

 

[thehog]

Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

WASHINGTON—A federal judge ruled Monday that the federal government’s false-claims lawsuit against cyclist Lance Armstrong should proceed to trial, rejecting his arguments that he should win the case now.

The Justice Department in a civil lawsuit is alleging Mr. Armstrong defrauded the government by accepting sponsorship money from the U.S. Postal Service while taking performance-enhancing drugs. It is seeking nearly $100 million

https://www.wsj.com/articles/lance-armstrong-will-face-trial-of-lawsuit-by-u-s-judge-rules-1487014347

 

[masking_agent]

Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

WASHINGTON—A federal judge ruled Monday that the federal government’s false-claims lawsuit against cyclist Lance Armstrong should proceed to trial, rejecting his arguments that he should win the case now.

The Justice Department in a civil lawsuit is alleging Mr. Armstrong defrauded the government by accepting sponsorship money from the U.S. Postal Service while taking performance-enhancing drugs. It is seeking nearly $100 million

https://www.wsj.com/articles/lance-armstrong-will-face-trial-of-lawsuit-by-u-s-judge-rules-1487014347

I wonder if he loses ? will he lose everything as he claimed in a past interview ? Wow!

 

[Benotti69]

"A jury could decide Armstrong and Tailwind should pay damages as much as three times that amount, or $96,801,837."

How many owners of Tailwind? Armstrong, Wesiel, Bruyneel.....?

Will they start suing each other to avoid having to pay?

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

WASHINGTON—A federal judge ruled Monday that the federal government’s false-claims lawsuit against cyclist Lance Armstrong should proceed to trial, rejecting his arguments that he should win the case now.

The Justice Department in a civil lawsuit is alleging Mr. Armstrong defrauded the government by accepting sponsorship money from the U.S. Postal Service while taking performance-enhancing drugs. It is seeking nearly $100 million

https://www.wsj.com/articles/lance-armstrong-will-face-trial-of-lawsuit-by-u-s-judge-rules-1487014347

I wonder if he loses ? will he lose everything as he claimed in a past interview ? Wow!

Doubt it.

Many (4 or more IIRC) owners of Tailwind along with Armstrong so that 100million$ gets spread.

But as i said above will their be counter suing if they lose Fed case?

 

[eleven]

Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

WASHINGTON—A federal judge ruled Monday that the federal government’s false-claims lawsuit against cyclist Lance Armstrong should proceed to trial, rejecting his arguments that he should win the case now.

The Justice Department in a civil lawsuit is alleging Mr. Armstrong defrauded the government by accepting sponsorship money from the U.S. Postal Service while taking performance-enhancing drugs. It is seeking nearly $100 million

https://www.wsj.com/articles/lance-armstrong-will-face-trial-of-lawsuit-by-u-s-judge-rules-1487014347

I wonder if he loses ? will he lose everything as he claimed in a past interview ? Wow!

Doubt it.

Many (4 or more IIRC) owners of Tailwind along with Armstrong so that 100million$ gets spread.

But as i said above will their be counter suing if they lose Fed case?

If, as it appears, this is the last maneuver before a jury trial I'm guessing we'll see a move by both sides to settle in the next couple months. Call it 25 Million and everyone goes home?

On the other hand I'm not an attorney -maybe there are other options remaining short of trial or settlement?

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

Bleed him for every penny.

Put him in the same career as all those other pros who struggled and refused to dope, never got a college degree, and how have jobs in places like LBS mechanics for $30k a year.

 

[DamianoMachiavelli]

Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

WASHINGTON—A federal judge ruled Monday that the federal government’s false-claims lawsuit against cyclist Lance Armstrong should proceed to trial, rejecting his arguments that he should win the case now.

The Justice Department in a civil lawsuit is alleging Mr. Armstrong defrauded the government by accepting sponsorship money from the U.S. Postal Service while taking performance-enhancing drugs. It is seeking nearly $100 million

https://www.wsj.com/articles/lance-armstrong-will-face-trial-of-lawsuit-by-u-s-judge-rules-1487014347

This is actually good for LA and bad for Floyd. Sure LA did not get a summary judgement, but the damages will be up to the jury. He will be allowed to argue the USPS' benefits far exceeded its costs. The counter argument that USPS suffered after Lance's confession has little to no merit. In fact, examples abound where bad publicity was beneficial.

Absolutely, don't pay too much attention to Marky Mark. Betsy could walk past with a nose longer than a carrot, everyone could be pointing to it, and he would still not acknowledge her lying.

 

[MarkvW]

Re:

"A jury could decide Armstrong and Tailwind should pay damages as much as three times that amount, or $96,801,837."

How many owners of Tailwind? Armstrong, Wesiel, Bruyneel.....?

Will they start suing each other to avoid having to pay?

Tailwind is defunct. It isn't suing anybody.

Weasel and Bruyneel won't sue anybody, because they are not parties to the lawsuit (i.e., they will not end up owing the USA anything). Tailwind isn't a vehicle to get at them, either.

Maybe Lance could sue Bruyneel and Weasel to get them to contribute their fair share of the damages, but there might (or might not) be big statute of limitations problems with doing that (because this stuff is so old).

The value of this case just mega-increased for the USA. Lance had better get out his pocketbook...and his bank book...and his investment portfolio...

 

[absolutely_not]

Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

The real big news is there will indeed be a trial.
This is bad news for Armstrong as he probably woul have loved to avoid the whole circus that will result of this.

But something tell me the USPS and Landis wont be that thrilled either about a trial : The USPS probably won't look too good about turning a blind eyes when it was convenient (Festina scandal revelling the whole sport was ravaged by doping, everybody?)
And Landis, for obvious reason. The hypocrisie of this suits and the reminding of his own fraud won't do him any good.

So they're heading to a trial. And though this ruling makes for dramatics headlines, the result of the trial is almost sealed by another ruling : the judge sided with Armstrong when it comes to calculating damages. The USPS will have to proove damages. And good luck with that.

There is always the incertinity of a jury for Armstrong, maybe that alone will incite him to settle. But if there is an actual trial, it will very certainly ends up with a penalty for each false claim (41 * between 5000$ and 10 000$) but it will probably be it

 

[Benotti69]

I think if USPS lawyers trawl through back issues of cycling mags they'll find everyone int he sport saying that doping ended with Festina.

Apart from Walsh, as Kimmage was not writing about cycling, iirc, in the 1st years of USPS, every journalist jumped on the cancer jesus band wagon.

I think USPS will not find it hard to dig up where everyone in the sport talked about a new beginning, doping in the past, tour of redemption and all the Armstrong denials.

It will come down to who can convince the jury.

 

[veganrob]

Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

WASHINGTON—A federal judge ruled Monday that the federal government’s false-claims lawsuit against cyclist Lance Armstrong should proceed to trial, rejecting his arguments that he should win the case now.

The Justice Department in a civil lawsuit is alleging Mr. Armstrong defrauded the government by accepting sponsorship money from the U.S. Postal Service while taking performance-enhancing drugs. It is seeking nearly $100 million

https://www.wsj.com/articles/lance-armstrong-will-face-trial-of-lawsuit-by-u-s-judge-rules-1487014347

This is actually good for LA and bad for Floyd. Sure LA did not get a summary judgement, but the damages will be up to the jury. He will be allowed to argue the USPS' benefits far exceeded its costs. The counter argument that USPS suffered after Lance's confession has little to no merit. In fact, examples abound where bad publicity was beneficial.

Absolutely, don't pay too much attention to Marky Mark. Betsy could walk past with a nose longer than a carrot, everyone could be pointing to it, and he would still not acknowledge her lying.

Would you explain to me why the lawsuit is about damages to USPS and not simply about breach of contract. Thanks

 

[ScienceIsCool]

Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

The real big news is there will indeed be a trial.
This is bad news for Armstrong as he probably woul have loved to avoid the whole circus that will result of this.

But something tell me the USPS and Landis wont be that thrilled either about a trial : The USPS probably won't look too good about turning a blind eyes when it was convenient (Festina scandal revelling the whole sport was ravaged by doping, everybody?)
And Landis, for obvious reason. The hypocrisie of this suits and the reminding of his own fraud won't do him any good.

So they're heading to a trial. And though this ruling makes for dramatics headlines, the result of the trial is almost sealed by another ruling : the judge sided with Armstrong when it comes to calculating damages. The USPS will have to proove damages. And good luck with that.

There is always the incertinity of a jury for Armstrong, maybe that alone will incite him to settle. But if there is an actual trial, it will very certainly ends up with a penalty for each false claim (41 * between 5000$ and 10 000$) but it will probably be it

USPS didn't turn a blind eye. They knew the score which is why Tailwind had to sign a contract that included language about not using drugs. Show those paragraphs to the jury, show them the signatures at the bottom and then rest your case.

John Swanson

 

[MarkvW]

Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

WASHINGTON—A federal judge ruled Monday that the federal government’s false-claims lawsuit against cyclist Lance Armstrong should proceed to trial, rejecting his arguments that he should win the case now.

The Justice Department in a civil lawsuit is alleging Mr. Armstrong defrauded the government by accepting sponsorship money from the U.S. Postal Service while taking performance-enhancing drugs. It is seeking nearly $100 million

https://www.wsj.com/articles/lance-armstrong-will-face-trial-of-lawsuit-by-u-s-judge-rules-1487014347

This is actually good for LA and bad for Floyd. Sure LA did not get a summary judgement, but the damages will be up to the jury. He will be allowed to argue the USPS' benefits far exceeded its costs. The counter argument that USPS suffered after Lance's confession has little to no merit. In fact, examples abound where bad publicity was beneficial.

Absolutely, don't pay too much attention to Marky Mark. Betsy could walk past with a nose longer than a carrot, everyone could be pointing to it, and he would still not acknowledge her lying.

Would you explain to me why the lawsuit is about damages to USPS and not simply about breach of contract. Thanks

This is not a breach of contract case. It is a false claims act case. Significant because a breach of contract case would be between USA and Tailwind (and Tailwind is defunct with zero money).

I don't know why damages can't be fixed at the amount actually paid to Tailwind. I'm sure that is what the USA is going to argue to the jury, though.

 

[samhocking]

Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

WASHINGTON—A federal judge ruled Monday that the federal government’s false-claims lawsuit against cyclist Lance Armstrong should proceed to trial, rejecting his arguments that he should win the case now.

The Justice Department in a civil lawsuit is alleging Mr. Armstrong defrauded the government by accepting sponsorship money from the U.S. Postal Service while taking performance-enhancing drugs. It is seeking nearly $100 million

https://www.wsj.com/articles/lance-armstrong-will-face-trial-of-lawsuit-by-u-s-judge-rules-1487014347

This is actually good for LA and bad for Floyd. Sure LA did not get a summary judgement, but the damages will be up to the jury. He will be allowed to argue the USPS' benefits far exceeded its costs. The counter argument that USPS suffered after Lance's confession has little to no merit. In fact, examples abound where bad publicity was beneficial.

Absolutely, don't pay too much attention to Marky Mark. Betsy could walk past with a nose longer than a carrot, everyone could be pointing to it, and he would still not acknowledge her lying.

Would you explain to me why the lawsuit is about damages to USPS and not simply about breach of contract. Thanks

It's a Fraud lawsuit, not a damages one. Clearly USPS did rather well out of their sponsorship overall, otherwise they wouldn't have stayed in the sport and be happy to sponsor Armstrong's team and keep renewing their deal. The general rule of this type of thing, is go for wherever the money exists. No point trying to get $100 million from his team mates or Tailwind, there's no money there.

 

[absolutely_not]

Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

The real big news is there will indeed be a trial.
This is bad news for Armstrong as he probably woul have loved to avoid the whole circus that will result of this.

But something tell me the USPS and Landis wont be that thrilled either about a trial : The USPS probably won't look too good about turning a blind eyes when it was convenient (Festina scandal revelling the whole sport was ravaged by doping, everybody?)
And Landis, for obvious reason. The hypocrisie of this suits and the reminding of his own fraud won't do him any good.

So they're heading to a trial. And though this ruling makes for dramatics headlines, the result of the trial is almost sealed by another ruling : the judge sided with Armstrong when it comes to calculating damages. The USPS will have to proove damages. And good luck with that.

There is always the incertinity of a jury for Armstrong, maybe that alone will incite him to settle. But if there is an actual trial, it will very certainly ends up with a penalty for each false claim (41 * between 5000$ and 10 000$) but it will probably be it

USPS didn't turn a blind eye. They knew the score which is why Tailwind had to sign a contract that included language about not using drugs. Show those paragraphs to the jury, show them the signatures at the bottom and then rest your case.

John Swanson

No, it doesn't work that way.
That easy and simplistic idea that since there was a breach of contract, USPS should be entitled to the sum of what they paid is basicly what the gouvernment and Landis tried to argue.

It was rejected by yesterday's ruling.

Again, there can be 2 sorts of penalties

1 - civil penalties for false claims which could amount a total of 200 000 to 400 000$ (My understanding is that Armstrong could very much loose this one, even if he himself didn't claim anything)

2 - Damages suffered by the gouvernment that can be trebled. The government bears the burden of proving damages (and not the contrary) as clearly enounced in yesterday's legal document. The damages are calculated by the monetary difference between what they actually received and what they would have received if the contract had been respected. (My understanding is that this is an almost unwinnable case for the government. Who knows, they may recover "some" of the money. But most likely nothing)