Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession)

[DominicDecoco]

Stops using the word 'listen'.

 

[Bicycle tramp]

A bit player who stood atop the TdF podium 7 times?
A bit player who received tens of millions of dollars a year in sponsorship?
A bit player who may have influenced investigations at multiple levels, including USA Federal?

Yeah, some bit player.

I'm not claiming that Lance is an Angel. He's not by any definition.

But his "success" rested on systemic corruption that went beyond anything he could have personally orchestrated, although he was a wilful player.

I hope he recognises this and hands over some heads. I pretty much doubt that this will happen, because most people will be happy to accept Lance's head.

 

[coinneach]

change the title, please!

I hate the way folk are talking about this "confession"

A "confession" is when you go in to the police station voluntarily and tell them what you did.

An "admission" is when the police take you in for questioning and you tell them what you did

A "Plea for clemency" is when you have been found guilty, and you admit it and ask the authorities for mercy.

Lance has been found guilty and he still doesn't fully admit it, nor go to the authorities, but tries to get sympathy on a stage managed TV show.

Come on guys...lets not fall for this and lets get rid of this "confession" word from the narrative (that Lance is still trying to manage!)

 

[Benotti69]

I hate the way folk are talking about this "confession"

A "confession" is when you go in to the police station voluntarily and tell them what you did.

An "admission" is when the police take you in for questioning and you tell them what you did

A "Plea for clemency" is when you have been found guilty, and you admit it and ask the authorities for mercy.

Lance has been found guilty and he still doesn't fully admit it, nor go to the authorities, but tries to get sympathy on a stage managed TV show.

Come on guys...lets not fall for this and lets get rid of this "confession" word from the narrative (that Lance is still trying to manage!)

I agree.

A confession when everyone knew is hardly a confession is it.

Admission is the correct term.

Confession is for someone who is sorry. Arsmtrong sure aint.

 

[ultimobici]

I hate the way folk are talking about this "confession"

A "confession" is when you go in to the police station voluntarily and tell them what you did.

An "admission" is when the police take you in for questioning and you tell them what you did

A "Plea for clemency" is when you have been found guilty, and you admit it and ask the authorities for mercy.

Lance has been found guilty and he still doesn't fully admit it, nor go to the authorities, but tries to get sympathy on a stage managed TV show.

Come on guys...lets not fall for this and lets get rid of this "confession" word from the narrative (that Lance is still trying to manage!)

My thoughts exactly. Cynical attempt to start his rehabilitation on his own terms.

I'd almost say "too little, too late", but that'd suggest there was some substance in his "admission". As Cathy Lemond said to Sports Illustrated

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/more/news/20130118/lance-armstrong-admission-kathy-lemond-reaction/index.html

SI: What did you and Greg make of the part one of the Oprah interview?
LeMond: It's all about how he can forward himself. This is not authentic. If this were authentic, he would ask to talk to us and ask, 'What can I do to heal you? I really hurt you.'
SI: Are you convinced by anything in his sort of general admission of mistakes?
LeMond: No. No. Honestly, I don't feel that he's even in there. I do believe he's embarrassed, kind of. One of our lawyers has a house in Hawaii just down from Lance and I talked to him a couple days ago and he said every other year he's been there he sees Lance out riding with locals and everybody's kind of excited. Now he said he's never with anybody out on the road. He's by himself. ... I think it's hit him. People don't want to be near him. He's become a pariah. I think he's flailing, but I don't have any reason to believe what he's saying is true. The parts I know of what he's saying aren't true! Or only partially true.

 

[peterh]

Lance Armstrong in a nutshell....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXoNE14U_zM

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

People expected Lance to surrender to the truth on Oprah. He did no such thing. What he did would be considered more of a strategic retreat at best, a repositioning at worst.

 

[Bicycle tramp]

Or a complete mess, probably.

 

[Steel4Ever]

Armstrong should not give back money that he did work his *** of for. It is sad that they need to set an example this way.

Uh....except that he would have a mere fraction of his wealth if he had not doped, cheated, lied, and ruined peoples lives in the process of creating perhpaps the longest and greatest sporting fraud in history (that, and he lied under oath in a court of law).

He worked "his *** off" much harder at covering up and perpetuating his fraud -- and keeping his fraudulently gained money -- than he ever did at racing his bike.

Yes, it is sad, sad that justice of any kind will be far from served.
It's too bad that the mush minded general public (no thanks to Doprah) think that cheating was the worst thing Liestrong did when it's probably the least worst.

"This guy" is truly vile.

 

[silverrocket]

I'm not claiming that Lance is an Angel. He's not by any definition.

But his "success" rested on systemic corruption that went beyond anything he could have personally orchestrated, although he was a wilful player.

I hope he recognises this and hands over some heads. I pretty much doubt that this will happen, because most people will be happy to accept Lance's head.

Obviously doping existing in cycling long before LA, and the UCI was clearly looking the other way, but I think the systemic corruption that allowed LA to get away with it for so long did not really exist until Armstrong came along. I think Armstrong and his handlers actually did orchestrate an entirely new level of corruption with Hein and Pat. He wasn't just a willful player, he changed the game.

 

[86TDFWinner]

You gotta love Merckx's supposed "shock/disappointment" nonsensical comments on Wonderboy. Merckx was a Wonderboy tool for years, and supported him throughout this debacle(just like he supported another doper in Indurain), and now all of a sudden he's "disappointed by Lance for doping," are you f^{½ kidding me? if Merckx didnt know what was going on w/Wonderboy, then he has to be the stupidest person on the planet. You had no idea what Wonderboy was doing after all these years, yeah right. If nothing else, Eddy should he charged w/aiding amd a betting W/Wonderboy. Eddy is just pathetic imo. I'm disappointed w/Eddy and offer him no support or respect from this point on. They should start messing with Merckx's career stats,a nd titles and so forth. Not surprising to me though that 2 dopers supported one another.

A former doper, "disappointed" that another doper doped? you can't write this stuff. Merckx jumps off LA bandwagon AFTER the fact, but until that point, had no problem supporting him.

So lemme see, that means a former doper, supported a former doper. Merckx comes off not looking good here. I've lost all respect for Merckx, especially after supporting a pos, scam artist and fraud like Wonderboy, and all the people he's hurt along the way.


Sad to say such a "legend" as Merckx, isnt quite the "legend/icon" he's made out to be.

 

[trailrunner]

1. He gives at least 95% of his fortune to a real charity
2. He publicly admits exactly what he did to and said about Lemond, the Andreus, Kimmage, at al and ask them what he can do to make amends
3. He gives up his attempt to return to cycling, tri, whatever and spends the time trying to repair his relationship with his kids instead
4. He volunteers to help out at his local hospital helping cancer patients during their treatment
5. He publicly admits that the show he just gave with Oprah was more of the same BS

Feel free to add your own.

6. He unselfishly volunteers at local triathlons, crits, and running races for five years before even thinking about begging to ask to return to competition.

 

[86TDFWinner]

Obviously doping existing in cycling long before LA, and the UCI was clearly looking the other way, but I think the systemic corruption that allowed LA to get away with it for so long did not really exist until Armstrong came along. I think Armstrong and his handlers actually did orchestrate an entirely new level of corruption with Hein and Pat. He wasn't just a willful player, he changed the game.

Yep, and how Pat and Hein are still in some kind of position of power still after all of this, boggles my mind. How Fat Pat hasn't been removed from his position is lost on me, admittedly. Hein needs to stfu too, because he(along with our good friend Pat) is about to get hit.

 

[D-Queued]

6. He unselfishly volunteers at local triathlons, crits, and running races for five years before even thinking about begging to ask to return to competition.

The return to competition line is pure BS.

He wants to have an audience to promote the next book / get endorsement contracts / etc. It is all about the money.

Thus, if I may, can I suggest modifying this point as follows:

6. He unselfishly volunteers at local races for five years, cleaning the porta-potties, without competing, and without conducting any self-promotion or product endorsement

Dave.

 

[Jeremiah]

No,

6. He unselfishly volunteers at local triathlons, crits, and running races for five years before even thinking about begging to ask to return to competition.

The return to competition line is pure BS.

He wants to have an audience to promote the next book / get endorsement contracts / etc. It is all about the money.

Thus, if I may, can I suggest modifying this point as follows:

6. He unselfishly volunteers at local races for five years, cleaning the porta-potties, without competing, and without conducting any self-promotion or product endorsement

Dave.

They shouldn't EVER let him COMPETE again. That's his crazy addiction. Saying he's better than the average person. He can't handle it. It's his way to exalt himself and that's his penalty.

Nope, never. He's effed a lot of people over but still has a lot of money and his home and he's free. He can go out for a ride or a run, and as has been noted, when he was just in Hawaii, no one was fawning over him when he trained on his recent trip.

But this return to "competition," "toeing the line?" For what? His demented ego? Weisel is another nut with the same problem as are a lot of these fraudulent, "captains of industry."

 

[D-Queued]

I'd like to consider another of the new lies: The Biopassport works and is unbeatable.

Let's set aside that this statement is completely self-serving.

Let's set aside that there have been remarkably few BP cases that have been been brought forward, or that have resulted in a sancton.

Let's set aside that Lance actually was a high risk on the BP scale.

Let's set aside that the UCI failed to test any of the BP targets for EPO.

Let's set aside the fact that Ashenden himself has confirmed the BP can be beaten.

Let's set aside statements from Tyler, and others, to the effect that 'our doctors are smarter than your doctors' and that Lance's doctors had a very sophisticated monitoring program and specialized (!) in tweaking Lance's parameters.

Let's set aside the fact that Lance was still consulting and paying Ferrari.

AND,

Simply consider this:

How would Lance know the Biopassport is unbeatable?

Where is his proof?

Having admitted that he is a liar, we need a bit more than his word on it.

How would Lance know that unless he had doped, and the BP had exposed this when other tests had not?

Is there another smoking gun here?

Either way, Lance's statement is a clear lie.

Dave.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Heard they are planning a movie now about the rise&fall of Lance Armstrong.

But I'm confused, didn't they already make a movie about Armstrong?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119528/

 

[frenchfry]

I'd like to consider another of the new lies: The Biopassport works and is unbeatable.

Let's set aside that this statement is completely self-serving.

Let's set aside that there have been remarkably few BP cases that have been been brought forward, or that have resulted in a sancton.

Let's set aside that Lance actually was a high risk on the BP scale.

Let's set aside that the UCI failed to test any of the BP targets for EPO.

Let's set aside the fact that Ashenden himself has confirmed the BP can be beaten.

Let's set aside statements from Tyler, and others, to the effect that 'our doctors are smarter than your doctors' and that Lance's doctors had a very sophisticated monitoring program and specialized (!) in tweaking Lance's parameters.

Let's set aside the fact that Lance was still consulting and paying Ferrari.

AND,

Simply consider this:

How would Lance know the Biopassport is unbeatable?

Where is his proof?

Having admitted that he is a liar, we need a bit more than his word on it.

How would Lance know that unless he had doped, and the BP had exposed this when other tests had not?

Is there another smoking gun here?

Either way, Lance's statement is a clear lie.

Dave.

What is the biggest lie: that he didn't dope for his comeback because he thought cycling was very clean, or that after he came in 3rd in 2009 he said to himself that he had simply been beaten by 2 guys that are better.

 

[Bicycle tramp]

Obviously doping existing in cycling long before LA, and the UCI was clearly looking the other way, but I think the systemic corruption that allowed LA to get away with it for so long did not really exist until Armstrong came along. I think Armstrong and his handlers actually did orchestrate an entirely new level of corruption with Hein and Pat. He wasn't just a willful player, he changed the game.

I doubt that Lance so much changed the game as that EPO arrived on the scene at the same time that America was primed for a revival of cycling. I think the UCI was well & truly corrupt before that; they were accepting of American can-do/know-how; their downfall was that they were unprepared for American excess.

I don't mean to detract from Lance's culpability (which is now obvious), but to draw attention to the systemic corruption which permitted a whole era of cycle sport to be rendered farcical. This obviously goes far beyond Lance, and the truth will probably out in the long run. But he seems to be the person best positioned to shortcut that process. In this he could regain a measure of redemption.

 

[Fortyninefourteen]

What is the biggest lie: that he didn't dope for his comeback because he thought cycling was very clean, or that after he came in 3rd in 2009 he said to himself that he had simply been beaten by 2 guys that are better.

The sequencing of the truth and lies told on Oprah was disingenuous. He vascillated between the 'Redeemed for TV ' Lance, and the old tired cornered Saddam Hussein inspired version. " I am willing to negociate "... he says defiantly from the underground hideout filled with his 3 weeks of accumulated body effluence.

And then he attacks the deals that USADA made for the others that he refused for himself.

He is done, and no one will have any time for him unless it's for a sworn statement.

 

[trailrunner]

They shouldn't EVER let him COMPETE again. That's his crazy addiction. Saying he's better than the average person. He can't handle it. It's his way to exalt himself and that's his penalty.

I didn't say I'd let him return - I said 5 years before he's allowed to even ask to return. It's pretty arrogant to already be asking to be allowed to compete. How long has he been sanctioned for - 3 or 4 months so far? When he told Oprah that he "deserved" to be able to compete really made me mad.

After 5 years of working aid stations and standing with an orange flag at road intersections at crits, I'd pull a Lucy holding the football for Charlie Brown and say "sorry - come back in another 5 years and ask again."

 

[Jeremiah]

I didn't say I'd let him return - I said 5 years before he's allowed to even ask to return. It's pretty arrogant to already be asking to be allowed to compete. How long has he been sanctioned for - 3 or 4 months so far? When he told Oprah that he "deserved" to be able to compete really made me mad.

After 5 years of working aid stations and standing with an orange flag at road intersections at crits, I'd pull a Lucy holding the football for Charlie Brown and say "sorry - come back in another 5 years and ask again."

I was more just addressing the possibility being out there competing...

I think the interview was an instructional display about what it means to be a sociopath. Maybe he's not completely gone?

Hopefully he will continue along in the "process" and he will more completely develop his personality to understand how "sick" he has been all these years.

Obviously he still has the manipulativeness going on. At this point I'm reluctant to taunt or mock him.

I believe the Federal govt. has to join the Qui tam and maybe open up the criminal case again for the sake of both the victims and Armstrong himself.

6 months to a year in prison might do him a world of good if he's still in the bargaining phase of his delusions.

 

[Steel4Ever]

I say he should indeed be allowed to compete in any sanctioned event he wants...under these conditions:

1) $20 million to acquire a racing license, renewed yearly;

2) $10 million entry fee per event;

3) a top 10 finish results in automatic dope test and must wait for both A and B sample results, plus an independent third-party lab test to be returned 100% negative before he can enter the next race.

I could live with that...maybe.

 

[xrayvision]

1. He feels he deserves to be able to compete again.
2. A life time ban, or as he calls it, a life sentence is not fair.
3. I bullied a lot of people and some of them deserves an apology.
4. I never called Betsy fat...big smile.
5. I was clean during the race, why tests were clean...yes motoman was true, deliveries were true..eh?
6. I didn´t force my teammates to dope, and I couldn´t fire anybody.
7. I never read Tylers book...so what in gods name upset him so much.
8...
and the list could go on and on

I wish this guy would just disappear from the face of the earth and into oblivion. ,

 

[darkcloud]

BS

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/pressures-of-american-dream-weighed-on-armstrong-claims-savoldelli

BS like this insults everyones intelligence.