Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession)

[Wallace]

Lemond is still claiming Mr. Clean. That could be, but as I've aready noted, Fignon's own admission will forever cast some doubt, but certainly not proof, on the the riders of that era. Greg now claims that Lance's junk was better than Floyd's or Tyler's. Maybe he has the inside scoop. I don't now if he means USPS or post USPS?

You really don't have the slightest idea what Fignon actually said, do you?

 

[rata de sentina]

But poor governance was the primary enabler (we will always have crooks), and the whole edifice must be brought down if cycling is to be fixed.

This is the point that Pat and Hein just don't seem to get. It doesn't actually matter whether they were both crooked or even if Pat 'tried' to fight doping, the fact that such a catastrophe occurred under their 'leadership' is sufficient for them to have to go. In industry or government no CEO would keep their job under these circumstances irrespective of their level of fault or how much other 'good' they claim to have done.

 

[fatsprintking]

This is the point that Pat and Hein just don't seem to get. It doesn't actually matter whether they were both crooked or even if Pat 'tried' to fight doping, the fact that such a catastrophe occurred under their 'leadership' is sufficient for them to have to go. In industry or government no CEO would keep their job under these circumstances irrespective of their level of fault or how much other 'good' they claim to have done.

This is 100% correct. The buck stops with them and their intentions are far less important than their effectivness to do their jobs, which is not very.

We may have some sympathy if they came out and said "we are responsible, the blame rests with us". But they dont. They just duck weave and pray.

Pat's early comments re the Armstrong interview show what a lack of understanding they have. Why make a comment immediatelly after the first interview unless you were ****ting yourself that something is going to be said that compromises you and you have just blown your load with relief that this did not occur and in your post ejaculation bliss you jump the gun to say something that just makes you look like a git.

 

[Bicycle tramp]

This is the point that Pat and Hein just don't seem to get. It doesn't actually matter whether they were both crooked or even if Pat 'tried' to fight doping, the fact that such a catastrophe occurred under their 'leadership' is sufficient for them to have to go. In industry or government no CEO would keep their job under these circumstances irrespective of their level of fault or how much other 'good' they claim to have done.

True. I believe that there is sufficient public interest involved that IOC affiliated sporting bodies (and pehaps others) should come under much stricter legal obligations to provide transparency, accountability, democratic processes etc.

At the very least, Pat should have been forced to stand aside whilst an independent investigation was carried out. Hein should've been forced to cut ties years ago.

As things stand, nothing will happen unless Armstrong or Bruyneel steps forward with damning testimony. In my view, inducement in the form of reduced sanctions and/or immunity would be worthwhile.

 

[webvan]

Probably clearing her throat before she is required to sing in front of a different audience:


Link here.

Thanks for the link. Rereading the story about the Andreus I seem to be missing a link because I remembered that Betsy said she was forced to testify about the "hospital room" incident during the SCA ordeal...which is true but it only happened because she talked to Walsh first. I need to go back to the USADA affidavits to understand what compelled her to talk to Walsh as I think it was covered there unless someone knows for sure?

 

[Briant_Gumble]

http://m.usatoday.com/article/news/1854245

Some BS from Oprah that it's still possible for Lance to be a "Hero".

I would have thought that after the research she had done she would know that whilst it may be possible for Lance to redeem himself a bit, this admission has come way too late for him to ever reach "hero" status.

 

[Desperate Moments]

http://m.usatoday.com/article/news/1854245

Some BS from Oprah that it's still possible for Lance to be a "Hero".

I would have thought that after the research she had done she would know that whilst it may be possible for Lance to redeem himself a bit, this admission has come way too late for him to ever reach "hero" status.

On "CBS This Morning," Charlie Rose quoted Oprah making that statement (and Oprah's good buddy, Gayle King confirmed it). I could not believe what I was hearing.

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50139479n

 

[WinterRider]

On "CBS This Morning," Charlie Rose quoted Oprah making that statement (and Oprah's good buddy, Gayle King confirmed it). I could not believe what I was hearing.

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50139479n

She should watch her interview with him with Paul Kimmage/David Walsh or anyone who knows anything in the room to explain what's going on.

In fact more than the interview itself, I would love to see that on tv.

 

[MarkvW]

On "CBS This Morning," Charlie Rose quoted Oprah making that statement (and Oprah's good buddy, Gayle King confirmed it). I could not believe what I was hearing.

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50139479n

Oprah is honoring the Rise-Fall-Redemption storyline. It's a tried and true story that always has attracted viewers. It's not about Lance: It's about the story. It's always been about the story. From the "heroic" rise from cancer, to the hubris, to the downfall, none of this has ever been about Lance, the person. It has always been about the story--and the selling of the story.

It's as phony as the Bachelor Kardashians on American Idol.

 

[the asian]

http://translate.google.no/translat...g-en-andere-renners-met-verdachte-waarden.htm

Hein Admits UCI warned Lance and other riders whenever there were positives/or there were suspicions of positives.


Don't know whether he actually said that and the article/translation is correct

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

http://translate.google.no/translat...g-en-andere-renners-met-verdachte-waarden.htm

Hein Admits UCI warned Lance and other riders whenever there were positives/or there were suspicions of positives.


Don't know whether he actually said that and the article/translation is correct

taht would put the end to him if he really said that

 

[the asian]

taht would put the end to him if he really said that

The original article is in Dutch. Can you translate it and say what it says?

 

[Hawkwood]

Man buys 7,000 [Armstrong] DVDs before Oprah Interview

Not the best business deal ever struck: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21145592

 

[the asian]

Not the best business deal ever struck: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21145592

Listened to his interview. He's a blood idiot.
Serves him right.

He was hoping to sell them @ 2 Pounds Per DVD.

 

[Hawkwood]

Listened to his interview. He's a blood idiot.
Serves him right.

He was hoping to sell them @ 2 Pounds Per DVD.

There might be a book in there somewhere `101 uses for a Lance Armstrong DVD'.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Hein Admits UCI warned Lance and other riders whenever there were positives/or there were suspicions of positives.


Don't know whether he actually said that and the article/translation is correct

That's what the English translation says. The same article quotes Verdruggen as saying he didn't know Thom Wiesel was partners with Wonderboy. Yeah, that's going to work....

http://www.vn.nl/Archief/Samenlevin...rong-and-other-riders-with-suspect-values.htm

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

The original article is in Dutch. Can you translate it and say what it says?

verbruggen basiclaly said that they warned riders with suspect blood values. that way they hoped to make riders realize doping was not the way to go (anymore) he also warned armstrong in 2001 and kroon in 2004. he did this because they couldn't catch them on a substance but their values were enough for uci to realize something was going on

 

[Briant_Gumble]

Oprah is honoring the Rise-Fall-Redemption storyline. It's a tried and true story that always has attracted viewers. It's not about Lance: It's about the story. It's always been about the story. From the "heroic" rise from cancer, to the hubris, to the downfall, none of this has ever been about Lance, the person. It has always been about the story--and the selling of the story.

It's as phony as the Bachelor Kardashians on American Idol.

Not too familiar with Oprah coming from the UK but I think she's showing her true colours here.

Still though if people are talking about Lance like this:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B7ZLt7uM-Zc

Then I think there's only scope for a rise-fall story as it should be.

 

[frenchfry]

verbruggen basiclaly said that they warned riders with suspect blood values. that way they hoped to make riders realize doping was not the way to go (anymore) he also warned armstrong in 2001 and kroon in 2004. he did this because they couldn't catch them on a substance but their values were enough for uci to realize something was going on

This would explain how Verdruggen could declare "Lance Armstrong has never used doping. Never, never, never. And I say this not because I am a friend of his, because that is not true. I say it because I'm sure." with such certainty.

 

[Square-pedaller]

verbruggen basiclaly said that they warned riders with suspect blood values. that way they hoped to make riders realize doping was not the way to go (anymore) he also warned armstrong in 2001 and kroon in 2004. he did this because they couldn't catch them on a substance but their values were enough for uci to realize something was going on

Verbruggen doesn't say that they couldn't catch them on a substance but their values were enough for UCI to realize something was going on (at least in the short linked article. Instead, just before the bit about hoping that he could persuade the riders to stop doping, he says that he doesn't care that warning them would reduce the risk of them getting caught.

The only place where the google translation is really bad is that the word 'not' is missed out before 'positive' in the paragraph that mentions Ashenden.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Verbruggen doesn't say that they couldn't catch them on a substance but their values were enough for UCI to realize something was going on (at least in the short linked article. Instead, just before the bit about hoping that he could persuade the riders to stop doping, he says that he doesn't care that warning them would reduce the risk of them getting caught.

The only place where the google translation is really bad is that the word 'not' is missed out before 'positive' in the paragraph that mentions Ashenden.

they couldn't catch them, that's why they warned them. this is very old "news". already mcquaid I think said this many years ago. only difference is verbruggen now names a few names like lance and kroon and all of it is long before bio passport

 

[Square-pedaller]

they couldn't catch them, that's why they warned them. this is very old "news". already mcquaid I think said this many years ago. only difference is verbruggen now names a few names like lance and kroon and all of it is long before bio passport

That's quite possible, but the way you juxtaposed your reply with the quote requesting a translation implied that this (that they warned them because they couldn't catch them) was written in the linked article, and it's not. That's all I was pointing out

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

That's quite possible, but the way you juxtaposed your reply with the quote requesting a translation implied that this (that they warned them because they couldn't catch them) was written in the linked article, and it's not. That's all I was pointing out

ok, sorry, my bad

 

[Square-pedaller]

ok, sorry, my bad

no probs

 

[Microchip]

Interesting piece on the UCI Rule Book from Inner Ring regarding Lance's 1999 positive test and backdated doctor's prescription.

Article 43 from the 1999 Rule Book:

The rider must indicate on the form any drugs listed on the list of classes of doping substances and methods which he has taken but which may not be taken into consideration under the medical conditions specified in the same list. If he has not and any such substance is found by the laboratory, the test result shall be considered a positive and the rider shall be sanctioned even when he produces a medical certificate after the test.