Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession)

[thehog]

Sorry, but you. don't. know. what. you. are. talking. about. You clearly don't understand how the US political system works - or how it was an act of Congress that ultimately repealed Glass-Steagall.

This is NOT a political statement.

This is simply fact.

Deregulation of the banking industry started long ago.Here is a good summary. And, it was the 'push of the Reagan administration' that created the momentum to repeal Glass-Steagall. As noted in Wikipedia, "The push of the Reagan administration for deregulation made it harder to catch the fraud. "

While Glass-Steagall (1933) was ultimately repealed in 1999, the steps to deregulation started long before that.

High interest rates in the 1970s (when monetary policy focused on money supply instead of interest rates), and initial deregulation in S&L, helped lead to the S&L crisis.

In turn, the Tax Reform Act of 1986 along with the 1986 S&L crisis gave us the forerunner of the 2007/8 real estate crisis. With that Tax Reform Act, real estate speculation was catalyzed and S&L's were motivated to make increasingly risky loans on speculative real estate transactions.

It was the 1980s when US banks began purchasing investment banks, not the 1990s.

Lance is being investigated for criminal activity. That activity was on a deliberate path to defraud an entire sport.

There is only one President that committed anything close to the kind of organized fraud perpetuated to secure a title.

Now, if you want to make a comparison to Clinton then it is noteworthy that Clinton was actively consulting that same President for insight on foreign relations.

Ultimately, this comparison between Lance and any President is more than a threadjack or a red herring. It is a complete waste of bandwidth.

You may not like a particular elected official, but there are no asterisks, strikeouts, or statements of 'Abandoned' under the official record of 'President of the United States'.

Dave.

There's no right or wrong in this argument. But the minute YOUR money was accessible by investment bankers was the beginning of the end.

Clintonomics they called it. The beginning of the end.

Reducing airport security to allow business travelers the freedom to move about the country had faithful consequences.

Right you are deregulation has been around since Moses. The Great Depression ensured consumer banking belonged to the people.

Clinton saw and end to that.

It's not politics. Just policy.

 

[stevie47]

Hey new guy,
Welcome to the forum. Your request has been noted. Please don’t click on the thread if it bothers you.
Regards,
New girl

Thank you! Actually I thought I clicked on the "Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession). My bad.

"Given enough time, eventually all human discourse degenerates into politics". Anon.

 

[northstar]

If a new guy is bothered by something that is exactly why he should click on and comment. That's what forums are all about! Surely you are not trying to stifle opinion?

It was not my intention to stifle discussion. New guy was of the opinion that everyone should stop commenting. I acknowledged his request and advised he might want to avoid the thread in the future. This is because the discussion will continue whether he likes it or not.

Sorry to have caused you or Stevie47 any grief!!

 

[northstar]

Thank you!

You're welcome! I missed your subtle OT request. Will increase my brain-dope meds.

 

[Merckx index]

Often cause and effect are years apart. Decades.

Indeed. We are still dealing with the effects of Reagan's war in Afghanistan. Not to mention Ralph Nader on the ticket in Florida.

Thank you, DQ, for a great post that basically elaborates on the cause and effect theme. Ironic that a Canadian has to provide us with a lesson on the roots of American political/economic change. I think it's fair to include Clinton in this story, but it goes much deeper than his policies. Really, once you begin looking for the antecedents to some policy, you can follow threads back into time endlessly.

On the topic of LA. I wonder how different things might have been if he had had one truly close friend, George, e.g., with the balls to point out to him that the bullying, harassment. etc. were not simply odious, but unnecessary. He could have adequately fended off Betsy, Walsh, etc., with the never tested positive mantra, without making a lot of enemies. He might still have been nailed in the end, but he would have fared far better with the public if he had been seen as just another doper, without all the other baggage. Compare the public's view of him with that of Ulle.

Same thing with Oscar Pistorius. He obviously has serious anger management issues. It seems no one was willing to take him aside and give him some really tough love.

 

[Scott SoCal]

Indeed. We are still dealing with the effects of Reagan's war in Afghanistan. Not to mention Ralph Nader on the ticket in Florida.

Thank you, DQ, for a great post that basically elaborates on the cause and effect theme. Ironic that a Canadian has to provide us with a lesson on the roots of American political/economic change. I think it's fair to include Clinton in this story, but it goes much deeper than his policies. Really, once you begin looking for the antecedents to some policy, you can follow threads back into time endlessly.

On the topic of LA. I wonder how different things might have been if he had had one truly close friend, George, e.g., with the balls to point out to him that the bullying, harassment. etc. were not simply odious, but unnecessary. He could have adequately fended off Betsy, Walsh, etc., with the never tested positive mantra, without making a lot of enemies. He might still have been nailed in the end, but he would have fared far better with the public if he had been seen as just another doper, without all the other baggage. Compare the public's view of him with that of Ulle.

Same thing with Oscar Pistorius. He obviously has serious anger management issues. It seems no one was willing to take him aside and give him some really tough love.

The only person that could have pulled this off would have been his mommy. I'm guessing the apple didn't fall too far from the tree.

Thank you, DQ, for a great post that basically elaborates on the cause and effect theme. Ironic that a Canadian has to provide us with a lesson on the roots of American political/economic change. I think it's fair to include Clinton in this story, but it goes much deeper than his policies. Really, once you begin looking for the antecedents to some policy, you can follow threads back into time endlessly.

Cause+effect+unintended consequences are limitless. The Glass-Stiegel Act had unintended (negative) consequences too. It goes on and on and on.

 

[D-Queued]

There's no right or wrong in this argument. But the minute YOUR money was accessible by investment bankers was the beginning of the end.

Clintonomics they called it. The beginning of the end.

Reducing airport security to allow business travelers the freedom to move about the country had faithful consequences.

Right you are deregulation has been around since Moses. The Great Depression ensured consumer banking belonged to the people.

Clinton saw and end to that.

It's not politics. Just policy.

I suppose I shouldn't tell you about my front row seat during Reaganomics and banking deregulation in the 1980s, then?

Of course, that was back when Lance was winning swim meets and the closest we got to Clintonomics was his Democratic response to Reagan's state of the union address.

However, at that time, the repeal of Glass-Steagall was only a matter of when. Activities were fully in motion before Clinton left Little Rock.

...

Cause+effect+unintended consequences are limitless. The Glass-Stiegel Act had unintended (negative) consequences too. It goes on and on and on.

Right you are.

Glass-Stiegel, itself, was a solution to a problem that hadn't existed in decades. It predates when Congress updated the Gold Standard to $35/ounce, let alone when the Gold Standard was abolished in 1971.

A different time, and a very different world.

...

Thank you, DQ, for a great post that basically elaborates on the cause and effect theme. Ironic that a Canadian has to provide us with a lesson on the roots of American political/economic change. ...

Indeed - back at you.

Isn't it odd that the world's most stable banking system (Canadian - by some sort of miracle) has seamless interstate (interprovincial) banking laws, along with fully integrated banking and investment banking within the same bank?

Can we get back to Lance, please?

Any comparison by Lance, or anyone else, to Clinton, or Reagan or Nixon is a smokescreen and an attempt to minimize the severity of Lance's fraud.

Dave.

 

[Elagabalus]

Hey new guy,
Welcome to the forum. Your request has been noted. Please don’t click on the thread if it bothers you.
Regards,
New girl

I believe what new guy is trying to say using his own inimitable new guy charm is that this thread is the "Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession)" thread and the politics thread is over there.

Let's stay on topic.

 

[webvan]

This is right. I'm deleting my posts that spoiled the Clinton love. I hate it when others start a skirmish and it's not particularly relevant anyway. Not a big deal.

Now, back on topic.

Were Wonderboy documents that he fought so hard to keep private ever released?????

Yes I was wondering about the other day too...looks like he still has some clout...

 

[Semper Fidelis]

I suppose I shouldn't tell you about my front row seat during Reaganomics and banking deregulation in the 1980s, then?

Of course, that was back when Lance was winning swim meets and the closest we got to Clintonomics was his Democratic response to Reagan's state of the union address.

However, at that time, the repeal of Glass-Steagall was only a matter of when. Activities were fully in motion before Clinton left Little Rock.



Right you are.

Glass-Stiegel, itself, was a solution to a problem that hadn't existed in decades. It predates when Congress updated the Gold Standard to $35/ounce, let alone when the Gold Standard was abolished in 1971.

A different time, and a very different world.



Indeed - back at you.

Isn't it odd that the world's most stable banking system (Canadian - by some sort of miracle) has seamless interstate (interprovincial) banking laws, along with fully integrated banking and investment banking within the same bank?

Can we get back to Lance, please?

Any comparison by Lance, or anyone else, to Clinton, or Reagan or Nixon is a smokescreen and an attempt to minimize the severity of Lance's fraud.

Dave.

Yeah really. No problem.

Thanks for the politics lecture.

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

Stop with the politics and stay on topic. Further off-topic postings will be deleted.

Thank you.

Susan

 

[Carols]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...1941851284534.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_LEFTTopStories

yet more attempted corruption coming to light....

 

[webvan]

I despise Dopestrong and lobbying as much as anyone else but like the article points out lobbying is not illegal unfortunately...so it can't be called corruption.

 

[thehog]

I despise Dopestrong and lobbying as much as anyone else but like the article points out lobbying is not illegal unfortunately...so it can't be called corruption.

It's a level playing field. Everyone gets an opportunity to lobby....

 

[reginagold]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...1941851284534.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_LEFTTopStories

yet more attempted corruption coming to light....

Anyone know whether "obstruction of justice" does/doesn't cover trying to scare off investigators by indicating you'll destroy them/their livelihood if they continue a current investigation?

 

[Race Radio]

I despise Dopestrong and lobbying as much as anyone else but like the article points out lobbying is not illegal unfortunately...so it can't be called corruption.

Actually what Armstrong attempted to do, interfere with a Federal criminal investigation, is illegal. That is why his attempt failed.

"No congressman in his or her right mind would try to interfere with a criminal investigation."

Gotta laugh at the balls of the lobbying firm. They took his $50,000 even though they must have known they would fail

 

[Ferminal]

I despise Dopestrong and lobbying as much as anyone else but like the article points out lobbying is not illegal unfortunately...so it can't be called corruption.

Certainly not if it happened in a civilised western country.

 

[Page Mill Masochist]

(Sorry if this has been posted):

Lance's big post-Oprah print interview here in Texas Monthly.

Fancies himself Bill Clinton.

 

[Benotti69]

Actually what Armstrong attempted to do, interfere with a Federal criminal investigation, is illegal. That is why his attempt failed.

Gotta laugh at the balls of the lobbying firm. They took his $50,000 even though they must have known they would fail

Herman gave the $50K, I wonder did he charge Armstrong more

 

[Scott SoCal]

Actually what Armstrong attempted to do, interfere with a Federal criminal investigation, is illegal. That is why his attempt failed.


Gotta laugh at the balls of the lobbying firm. They took his $50,000 even though they must have known they would fail

But it appears as though this tactic may have worked with Birotte.

Whether it did or did'nt, Lance certainly thinks it did... so 'do it again' was probably his mentality.

 

[Fortyninefourteen]

Herman gave the $50K, I wonder did he charge Armstrong more

Did Herman really engage that firm?? A lawyer would generally be smart enough to have that done by a third party, adequately distant, to protect the outward appearance of integrity.

 

[thehog]

Should be here:


Lance tanked it.

Lance Armstrong once again has decided not to cooperate with the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency but said he still plans to "cooperate fully" with other anti-doping authorities instead.

For the second time in two weeks, the famed cyclist has rejected USADA's deadline to submit to a full debriefing about how he cheated on the bike and got away with it for years. If he had agreed to cooperate in time, his testimony could have paved the way for a reduction in his lifetime ban from sanctioned sporting events.


"Lance is willing to cooperate fully and has been very clear: He will be the first man through the door, and once inside will answer every question, at an international tribunal formed to comprehensively address pro cycling, an almost exclusively European sport," Herman's statement said. "We remain hopeful that an international effort will be mounted, and we will do everything we can to facilitate that result. In the meantime, for several reasons, Lance will not participate in USADA's efforts to selectively conduct American prosecutions that only demonize selected individuals while failing to address the 95% of the sport over which USADA has no jurisdiction."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...lance-armstrong-usada-deadline-again/1931793/

He's dodging the law - what's this "exclusive European sport business?

 

[reginagold]

"for several reasons" likely hides the reality that he can't speak to anyone under oath while the DOJ has an open investigation with him as the target.

The rest looks to be Tim channeling Fabiani.

 

[D-Queued]

Should be here:


Lance tanked it.



http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...lance-armstrong-usada-deadline-again/1931793/

He's dodging the law - what's this "exclusive European sport business?

Thanks thehog,

I think what that means is that Lance would be happy to have a tribunal formed in Spain, and sponsored by the Spanish government.

Maybe he will even volunteer to provide 'evidence' at the OP trial. A surprise defense witness?

It also means that Lance finds himself above the US judiciary system. No surprise there. He is cancer Jesus. And, allegedly, there is a move underway for a 28th Constitutional Amendment: Right to Dope While Cycling in Europe.

Dave.

 

[Mishrak]

This should be no surprise, especially not to USADA. With all the legal implications of his previous unprosecuted perjury, confessing now under oath would end him.

I thought the temptation of getting his ban reduced so he could compete again would have been enough for him to do it, but I guess he would rather just remain banned for life than to actually help the sport move forward.

Asking for an international tribunal to be established is silly. He might as well be asking for robot unicorns and rainbows in his hair.

I will admit, I find it humorous that WADA has told him to talk to USADA, but he's like "No! I wanna talk to WADA."