Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession)

[DirtyWorks]

The interview is interesting. I tend to believe Armstrong about what kind of offer was made by USADA, that everyone else was offered specific terms and he was told, "Come out with your hands up."

Circumstances of Wonderboy's own making lead to that action. I know Wonderboy wants to forget that so he can revel in victimhood, but he's done it to himself and he can't help it.

Maybe the point of this pity party propaganda machine is to generate some public opinion in an attempt to weaken an actual prosecution? Again, we're lucky he is so, so bad at it!

 

[Dazed and Confused]

The interview is interesting. I tend to believe Armstrong about what kind of offer was made by USADA, that everyone else was offered specific terms and he was told, "Come out with your hands up." If Hincapie and Leipheimer confirm the conversation with the Garmin boys about all of them talking to each other about their deals then Tygart's credibility will take a big hit. Just like Armstrong made media appearance after media appearance denying his doping, Tygart has given interview after interview claiming everyone, including Armstrong, was treated the same. Tygart would be better off if he admitted the goal was to get Armstrong and he made deals to do that. Instead it is likely he will be shown to be a liar.

That answer about the reasoned decision being much more than expected is also interesting. It makes me suspect that Armstrong felt that with the usual decision issued by USAD he would have room to make his own case to the public. The size and detail of the decision prevented that. It would also not surprise me if there were talks between him and his sponsors, and the sponsors were expecting Armstrong to be able to weather the storm with a PR campaign. They stuck with him until it became apparent that the completeness of the decision made that impossible.

Inclined to agree. The thing that can rescue Tygart is a broader effort on the anti doping front imo. Why are nobody going after Kim Andersen? What about the drug dealer, Weltz?

At some point, a man gotta do what a man gotta do. Throw the deals in the bin and gain credibility back. Tygart, lets get some action on the table, enough of the broken record please.

 

[thehog]

Inclined to agree. The thing that can rescue Tygart is a broader effort on the anti doping front imo. Why are nobody going after Kim Andersen? What about the drug dealer, Weltz?

At some point, a man gotta do what a man gotta do. Throw the deals in the bin and gain credibility back. Tygart, lets get some action on the table, enough of the broken record please.

Hincapie is dopey.

TT bent for the end game. But Lance was doing that for years.

He got completely ------ over. Which is what Lance does.

And he's complaining? The Feds would have smashed those guys to pieces if they didn't appear to be cooperating.

TommyD ain't going to be holding out on a guy with a badge.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Inclined to agree. The thing that can rescue Tygart is a broader effort on the anti doping front imo.

Please explain how that would work since the NADO has almost no authority to do such a thing.

Remember what made all of this work was athletes went directly to USADA/NADO and did not go through their sport federation. We know what Johnson and Wiesel did with Landis' information that was sent directly to them and USADA, nothing! http://espn.go.com/oly/cycling/news/story?id=5203604
Also, please don't forget USAC and the UCI's effort to intervene and shut down the controversy.

Eventually USADA, used cycling's anti-doping rules to negotiate suspensions.

Not sure why you've forgotten Wonderboy **EARNED** the lifetime ban. USADA/Tygart is on the right side of this.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Please explain how that would work since the NADO has almost no authority to do such a thing.

Remember what made all of this work was athletes went directly to USADA/NADO and did not go through their sport federation. We know what Johnson and Wiesel did with Landis' information that was sent directly to them and USADA, nothing! http://espn.go.com/oly/cycling/news/story?id=5203604

Then, using cycling's anti-doping rules, they (USADA) negotiated suspensions.

Also, please don't forget USAC and the UCI's effort to intervene and shut down the controversy.

Not sure why you've forgotten Wonderboy **EARNED** the lifetime ban. USADA/Tygart is on the right side of this.

Again, don't get me wrong. Armstrong earned a lifetime ban. Good work. Now we need to see similar vigilance on the broader anti doping front. Plenty of low hanging fruit, and I think the public is ready to see a more aggressive stance.

 

[IzzyStradlin]

Dude is either totally delusional, or doing a very good job at sticking to a very poorly written script.

 

[Merckx index]

I thought this was one of the most honest interviews Armstrong has given. Not saying it's 100% truth, but there are some real gems here:

I know this will sound bad, but I don't really care what the hard-core cycling geek thinks. I don't.

I think people are more decent than we give them credit for. I can sense when somebody maybe wants to say something. But they don't.

History isn't stupid, and for the first time in my life, I've just got to have real patience. Which is not my virtue.

"History isn't stupid" is a great quote, the most profound thing I've ever heard Armstrong say.

I was born and raised a fighter and just not smart enough to have that switch, to go from, "OK, you're in the race, you got these guys on the ropes, f---ing throttle 'em," to, "You're in the press conference; this is not your domain, just back off." I didn't have that switch.

And this:

the federal government wants $100 million [in the False Claims Act suit alleging that Armstrong's doping defrauded the federal government during the Postal sponsorship]. I don't have $100 million.

Lindsey: Even though it wouldn't just be you on the hook for that?


Armstrong: It's just me.

I continue to wonder what really happened in the leadup to the charging letter. I think BroDeal may be right. The earliest letter on record from TT to Armstrong is only ten days before the charging letter--and that letter wasn't written in a few hours.

 

[IzzyStradlin]

I know this will sound bad, but I don't really care what the hard-core cycling geek thinks. I don't.

"Hardcore cycling geeks" (which in his mind is probably anyone who follows races other than the TdF) are also the people who know enough of his story to call him on the giant pile of horses#!t he is trying to pass off as "honest answers".

 

[Bosco10]

Wow, Lance gave ESPN a nice whine & cheeeze party. But he did say something that's irrefutable: "I have no credibility."

 

[Berzin]

Armstrong now says Weisel knew or should have known about the doping at US Postal.

Rev up that bus...time to run a couple of guys over.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...e-armstrong-interview-postal-service/4004287/


Lance Armstrong didn't name names in his famous confession to Oprah Winfrey. But when asked about it in a recent lawsuit, he said he believed that one key person had knowledge of his doping conspiracy virtually the whole time – Bay Area financier Thomas Weisel, who bankrolled the U.S. Postal Service cycling team.

In a written response to questions in a lawsuit, Armstrong said in November that he believed "Mr. Weisel was aware of doping by the USPS Team and in professional cycling in general," according to court documents filed Thursday.

Weisel, who bankrolled the USPS team, has denied the allegation.

 

[mewmewmew13]

Please explain how that would work since the NADO has almost no authority to do such a thing.

Remember what made all of this work was athletes went directly to USADA/NADO and did not go through their sport federation. We know what Johnson and Wiesel did with Landis' information that was sent directly to them and USADA, nothing! http://espn.go.com/oly/cycling/news/story?id=5203604
Also, please don't forget USAC and the UCI's effort to intervene and shut down the controversy.

Eventually USADA, used cycling's anti-doping rules to negotiate suspensions.

Not sure why you've forgotten Wonderboy **EARNED** the lifetime ban. USADA/Tygart is on the right side of this.

+!
yes!!….

 

[42x16ss]

Armstrong now says Weisel knew or should have known about the doping at US Postal.

Rev up that bus...time to run a couple of guys over.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...e-armstrong-interview-postal-service/4004287/


Lance Armstrong didn't name names in his famous confession to Oprah Winfrey. But when asked about it in a recent lawsuit, he said he believed that one key person had knowledge of his doping conspiracy virtually the whole time – Bay Area financier Thomas Weisel, who bankrolled the U.S. Postal Service cycling team.

In a written response to questions in a lawsuit, Armstrong said in November that he believed "Mr. Weisel was aware of doping by the USPS Team and in professional cycling in general," according to court documents filed Thursday.

Weisel, who bankrolled the USPS team, has denied the allegation.

Loving it! That POS has had it coming for a while. Next stop, Phat and Nein

 

[Oldman]

Armstrong now says Weisel knew or should have known about the doping at US Postal.
Rev up that bus...time to run a couple of guys over.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...e-armstrong-interview-postal-service/4004287/


Lance Armstrong didn't name names in his famous confession to Oprah Winfrey. But when asked about it in a recent lawsuit, he said he believed that one key person had knowledge of his doping conspiracy virtually the whole time – Bay Area financier Thomas Weisel, who bankrolled the U.S. Postal Service cycling team.

In a written response to questions in a lawsuit, Armstrong said in November that he believed "Mr. Weisel was aware of doping by the USPS Team and in professional cycling in general," according to court documents filed Thursday.

Weisel, who bankrolled the USPS team, has denied the allegation.

Time to cue up that old Chambers Bros song: Time has come today Got to say this is what many have waited for.

 

[86TDFWinner]

Circumstances of Wonderboy's own making lead to that action. I know Wonderboy wants to forget that so he can revel in victimhood, but he's done it to himself and he can't help it.

Maybe the point of this pity party propaganda machine is to generate some public opinion in an attempt to weaken an actual prosecution? Again, we're lucky he is so, so bad at it!

Exactly what I've said a few times. He's not fooling most with his 'I had no idea they'd treat me this way" BS he's on now.

"Hardcore cycling geeks" (which in his mind is probably anyone who follows races other than the TdF) are also the people who know enough of his story to call him on the giant pile of horses#!t he is trying to pass off as "honest answers".

This.

Loving it! That POS has had it coming for a while. Next stop, Phat and Hein

Right! Also, don't forget our dear friends: Chris Carmichael and Jim Ochowicz

 

[86TDFWinner]

Wow, Lance gave ESPN a nice whine & cheeeze party. But he did say something that's irrefutable: "I have no credibility."

Yep, and ESPN was there to lop it up like a lap dog.

 

[Fatclimber]

"Hardcore cycling geeks" (which in his mind is probably anyone who follows races other than the TdF) are also the people who know enough of his story to call him on the giant pile of horses#!t he is trying to pass off as "honest answers".

I guess he's given up on 'growing the sport' which he was given so much credit for doing back in the day. Cycling must not be cool no mo

 

[TANK91]

Lance your a hero you made Mountain days so much fun, my idol would beat you if he train more Ullrich was best but LA you will always live on 7 TDF wins you won no one takes those recordings away. They may aswell strip everyone in 90's. I dont care when people say LA benefited more than what a star would if he doped, LA crushed people for 7 years who as done that, he cam back as grandpa and came 3rd. I dont care weather he was high as hell 3rd is unreal in his age. And peopl make me laugh thinking that just cuz he doped he was not a star he came back from death and dominated straight away, if Igor Anton fr example godforbid suddenly got cancer aand survived do you think he would be winning TDF with dope? Yes he doped still an athlete winning biggest race after having cancer straight away. Panatani(rip) the best climber you guys go on like it was easy for Armstrong to drop him? Arnstrong bossed the man who was known as the best uphill.


I love mainly mountain stages its so good Froome is flying the flag for the clean era(look at all these positives and people getting caught even passport is their now) even Lemond is proud of him(look at TDF podium Lemond was their cheering the new icon of cycling a brit aswell). Everyone knows Froome is the best he will win 7 TDF imo and maybe a Vuelta, Contador be prepared less MTF in La Vuelta means Froome takes part and it will be a massacre imo.

I hope i am alive in 7 years time and we se the reaction to Froome being better than Contador i doubt i will be here though i reckon i will die young.

 

[TANK91]

Wow my spelling is bad im high ashell

 

[BroDeal]

P!ss poor attempt at trolling. Next time try a little subtlety.

 

[42x16ss]

Wow my spelling is bad im high ashell

I bet. What is it and where can I get some?

 

[Berzin]

I know what it's like dealing with people who have severe personality disorders. I could write a book. But this is too much even for me to comprehend.

I don't understand what the end game is with the interviews Armstrong is doing.

I don't understand what type of advice he's getting.

I don't understand the level of hubris on display when he says the doping program at US Postal was "conservative", or that if no one in the peloton doped he still would have won seven Tours.

It boggles the mind that he actually believes this.

Next stop on his "Pity Me" tour should be to Simeoni's house. I would like to have him explain how he got the Giro organizers to not invite the Italian National Champion's team to their own home tour out of sheer spite.

Or the manner in which he got most of the Astana team to publicly berate Alberto Contador for "not following orders" during the 2009 Tour, and all the behind-the-scenes crap he pulled just because Contador wouldn't let him win.

I've said this before and it bears repeating. I know guys on the amateur level who dope. Some are working-class schlubs who have a pipeline for inexpensive PEDs'. The others are hard-core, A-type personality yuppies who feel they must win at everything, all the time.

Armstrong fits in the category of the A-type personality in this manner-guys who are born to win MUST win at all costs. The drugs only enhance their innate natural abilities, so it's not cheating. They would still win without PED's, but only if others weren't cheating. That to them is what a level playing field looks like in their fevered brains.

And this is what Armstrong has convinced himself of. Not surprising, but the level he's taking it to is certainly unprecedented.

And what's most disturbing is it's doing him no good. He must know this. Public opinion isn't going to sway Tygart to suddenly renounce his lifetime ban, and he has been adamant that he will not sit down with anyone at the USADA for an interview.

So what is he getting at with all this? Right now it's impossible to tell. He is seriously emotionally disturbed.

 

[darwin553]

A couple of things after reading the link with the new Armstrong interview is (1) I appreciated the edits the editor made to the truthfulness of the Armstrong statements and (2) I liked how genuine the interview was by determining it through Armstrong's penchant of asking himself questions to answer.

 

[D-Queued]

I know what it's like dealing with people who have severe personality disorders. I could write a book. But this is too much even for me to comprehend.

I don't understand what the end game is with the interviews Armstrong is doing.

I don't understand what type of advice he's getting.

I don't understand the level of hubris on display when he says the doping program at US Postal was "conservative", or that if no one in the peloton doped he still would have won seven Tours.

It boggles the mind that he actually believes this.

Next stop on his "Pity Me" tour should be to Simeoni's house. I would like to have him explain how he got the Giro organizers to not invite the Italian National Champion's team to their own home tour out of sheer spite.

Or the manner in which he got most of the Astana team to publicly berate Alberto Contador for "not following orders" during the 2009 Tour, and all the behind-the-scenes crap he pulled just because Contador wouldn't let him win.

I've said this before and it bears repeating. I know guys on the amateur level who dope. Some are working-class schlubs who have a pipeline for inexpensive PEDs'. The others are hard-core, A-type personality yuppies who feel they must win at everything, all the time.

Armstrong fits in the category of the A-type personality in this manner-guys who are born to win MUST win at all costs. The drugs only enhance their innate natural abilities, so it's not cheating. They would still win without PED's, but only if others weren't cheating. That to them is what a level playing field looks like in their fevered brains.

And this is what Armstrong has convinced himself of. Not surprising, but the level he's taking it to is certainly unprecedented.

And what's most disturbing is it's doing him no good. He must know this. Public opinion isn't going to sway Tygart to suddenly renounce his lifetime ban, and he has been adamant that he will not sit down with anyone at the USADA for an interview.

So what is he getting at with all this? Right now it's impossible to tell. He is seriously emotionally disturbed.

+1

Dave.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Okay, lets assume everyone can look sec, dont know if it is the right translation but with 'sec' I mean unprejudiced, with an open mind, forgetting who that person is, to these kinda statements:

If you ask me questions about what I did in 2001 or what the peloton did in 2001, I'm not going to answer your questions. If the governing body of the sport decides to have a full, complete and comprehensive effort to try to address and learn and understand everything, then that's when I'll answer questions. To Oprah or to you, that's not the place to answer those questions. You would love it. She would love it. The hard-core cycling fan would love it. But this isn't the time and place to answer those questions. If the mission is really to address the issue, not singling out individuals, then let's do that. Let's do what we stated we were going to do. Because we haven't done that yet. In that setting, ask the question, I'll answer the question.

Of course I suspect the guy of having an own agenda for all of this but I cant see much wrong with these kinda statements.

Or:

Lindsey: Do you think people understand that your decision to dope, at the time, was a practical decision, like, "This is what you have to do?" They accept that?
Armstrong: It's hard to say. I haven't done any polling. But I just [pauses], yeah, certainly the way we viewed it at the time, nearly 20 years ago was, "We're just getting throttled here, and I kinda devoted my life to this. What do I do?" And everyone I know made that decision, the same decision [as me].

I know a certain DS who was heralded for this.

I did have to laugh about him winning clean seven times, isnt it documented Zulle was clean of EPO in 1999?

If true, this would be compelling:

I now talk to these guys, especially George. I know exactly what happened. And George doesn't like the deal either. The story, when it leaks in the Tour [in 2012], the names [of Armstrong's ex-teammates who testified against him] leaked. They all gather in the neutral zone [the race's rolling start] like, Holy s---, how did our names get out? And you know how they got out. And they all look at each other and George, and they say, "Well, this can't be true, because we're not getting suspended." George says, "What are you talking about?" Levi says, "What are you talking about?" And: "No, no we're not getting suspended." That's [Garmin riders Tom] Danielson, Vande Velde and [Dave] Zabriskie: "We're not getting suspended." George says, "Yeah, you're getting six months." They say, "No we're not." And George says, "Well, I'm getting six months," and Levi says, "I'm getting six months." So they're all ****ed. Then Colorado [USA Pro Challenge] comes around and there's enough pressure out there that Travis comes to Jonathan [Vaughters, Garmin team manager] and says, "I'm going to have to suspend them. I have to give them something." And here we are.

 

[BroDeal]

If true, this would be compelling:

I mentioned that above because I found it to be one of the most interesting things in the interview. It is not generalities. It is specifics and it should be verifiable. All it takes is for Hincapie, Leipheimer or, maybe less likely, one of the Garmin riders to talk. Someone who works for CN, VN, or Bicycling should ask these guys.

I find it interesting because this to me has the ring of truth as opposed to Tygart's, "I treated everyone the same." What I suspect is the truth is that JV, who had long running contacts with USADA, negotiated a deal or had an understanding with USADA that his riders would suffer virtually no consequences. Hincapie and Leipheimer came aboard later after their grand jury testimony; their lawyers, who had already cut a deal with the Feds, did the same thing with USADA. I cannot see them telling their clients to just go in there, tell all, and hope For the best. Once USADA had testimony from other riders in hand, Armstrong was asked to come in but there was no deal offered. It was, "Come out with your hands up and maybe we will go easy on you." So everyone had a deal but Armstrong, for whom everything was left open ended, not something anyone, but especially him, would feel comfortable about. Not being able to nail down a specific deal, prevent any deal from being made. All the while Armstrong was doing what he could to prevail over USADA, but that is normal in any legal confrontation and settlement negotiations still take place.

The stuff about how everyone was treated the same is coming from USADA, after the fact. This is the same group of guys who seem to be incapable of admitting that they were going after Armstrong. We know from Landis that they were after him as far back as 2006.

It might also raise questions about whether USADA negotiated with Armstrong in good faith. Were negotiations just a ruse so Tygart could later say he tried? Armstrong is very adamant that he was not offered the softball deal that Hincapie and the others received. He might be lying, but maybe not. I am finding Tygart harder and harder to believe.