Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession)

[Race Radio]

Why are you promoting the idea it's all a plot to smear the Andreu's?

Saying that Betsy was as complicit as Crow and Kristen is indeed a smear job, on this we can surly agree. Pretending that Frankie is hiding something and doped to the same level and Lance and George is obviously nonsense

The bigger question is why would Lance pursue this nonsense? He seems like a smart enough guy to realize that this tacit of smearing Betsy and Frankie will only end bad for him

 

[Scott SoCal]

Got a link to the bolded? Or any evidence?

Yeah, lots of stories written about LA shopping a story in order to create a new story.

 

[Scott SoCal]

Saying that Betsy was as complicit as Crow and Kristen is indeed a smear job, on this we can surly agree. Pretending that Frankie is hiding something and doped to the same level and Lance and George is obviously nonsense

The bigger question is why would Lance pursue this nonsense? He seems like a smart enough guy to realize that this tacit of smearing Betsy and Frankie will only end bad for him

Yes, but how much worse can it get?

 

[The Dark Knight Rises]

You may find this unbelievable, but there are people who flood message boards, forum, social media for him, and go to great lengths even after being banned to spout his nonsense. Yes even now.

No I don't find that unbelievable at all. The way the likes of RaceRadio and his protectors have rushed onto social media to promote conspiracy theories about Hincapie's remarks hasn't been very edifying at all. It's raised a lot of eyebrows. Your agenda stands out like sore thumb in this post fall era.

As BroDeal so intelligently said, if some of the truth doesn't make Armstrong look so bad, so be it. Don't have to use underhand tactics and smear jobs against anyone who doesn't stay on message.

Incidentally, go read Hincapie's email to Andreu ten years ago in the USADA report. His views have always been consistent about Frankie.

 

[thehog]

Saying that Betsy was as complicit as Crow and Kristen is indeed a smear job, on this we can surly agree. Pretending that Frankie is hiding something and doped to the same level and Lance and George is obviously nonsense

The bigger question is why would Lance pursue this nonsense? He seems like a smart enough guy to realize that this tacit of smearing Betsy and Frankie will only end bad for him

I think more the fact that he spent his entire career doping to the point of it being organised crime will be why the end result be "bad".

Mumbling to the the Detriot Gazette will won't amount to much.

I think we need to put things in perspective on what was actually said.

But you're entitled to your own interpretation.

 

[Scott SoCal]

No I don't find that unbelievable at all. The way the likes of RaceRadio and his protectors have rushed onto social media to promote conspiracy theories about Hincapie's remarks hasn't been very edifying at all. It's raised a lot of eyebrows. Your agenda stands out like sore thumb in this post fall era.

As BroDeal so intelligently said, if some of the truth doesn't make Armstrong look so bad, so be it. Don't have to use underhand tactics and smear jobs against anyone who doesn't stay on message.

Incidentally, go read Hincapie's email to Andreu ten years ago in the USADA report. His views have always been consistent about Frankie.

You mean, other than yours?

 

[Race Radio]

I think more the fact that he spent his entire career doping to the point of it being organised crime will be why the end result be "bad".

Mumbling to the the Detriot Gazette will won't amount to much.

I think we need to put things in perspective on what was actually said.

But you're entitled to your own view.

There is a path to redemption. I doubt smearing Travis, Betsy, Frankie, and JV is the right path, but you are entitled to your own view.

 

[badbrainaj]

Hincapie was a hell of a Mountain climber

 

[The Dark Knight Rises]

Saying that Betsy was as complicit as Crow and Kristen is indeed a smear job, on this we can surly agree. Pretending that Frankie is hiding something and doped to the same level and Lance and George is obviously nonsense

The bigger question is why would Lance pursue this nonsense? He seems like a smart enough guy to realize that this tacit of smearing Betsy and Frankie will only end bad for him

There you go again. I have to hand it to you, you're good at smearing people and poisoning the well. You add in a little bit extra to what the other person said to make them look bad, i.e that Betsy is precisely the same as Kristen and Crow. Of course, nobody said that. Nobody has said that Frankie had to dope in the same fashion as Armstrong who of course was a GC guy. Tyler explained how that works in his book. But as I think most people believe, Frankie was a normal part of the team and doped along with all the boys in the same fashion as they did. Without Betsy, he wouldn't have left the team either. All pretty obvious.

Hincapie is just telling it like it is. To dress it all up as a conspiracy theory only makes you look incredible bad. People were willing to brush that all aside when Lance was riding high, but it's clear there is something else going on here. Do you have some type of personal history with Lance from the late 80s that you want to tell us about? Did you ever race against him in Tri's? Can't have been easy to watch the same guy who beat you go on and win the tour year after year? That's understandable and I feel your pain, but time to let it rest. He's lost those tours tour. Get on with your life and stop this nasty. You're only looking like the very thing you're supposed to hate.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Why are you promoting the idea it's all a plot to smear the Andreu's? Some people could consider that itself to be a smear job. I don't think you come out of this very well.

Here's why:
...why does any sentient person care to debate whether Frankie used EPO 5 times or 50 times during a career that ended 13 years ago? Only if they want to kick up enough dirt to cloud Frankie’s character, which is precisely what George is doing.

I don't think you come out of this very well.

It's time to give up, Lance. Really. This is going nowhere.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

No I don't find that unbelievable at all. The way the likes of RaceRadio and his protectors have rushed onto social media to promote conspiracy theories about Hincapie's remarks hasn't been very edifying at all. It's raised a lot of eyebrows. Your agenda stands out like sore thumb in this post fall era.

As BroDeal so intelligently said, if some of the truth doesn't make Armstrong look so bad, so be it. Don't have to use underhand tactics and smear jobs against anyone who doesn't stay on message.

Incidentally, go read Hincapie's email to Andreu ten years ago in the USADA report. His views have always been consistent about Frankie.

Oh goodie - whats my agenda? Please elaborate.

PS - you may have missed it, but I don't particularly see anything new from GH, so you might wish to actually read what I write and not go off on your agenda.

 

[thehog]

There is a path to redemption. I doubt smearing Travis, Betsy, Frankie, and JV is the right path, but you are entitled to your own view.

I am entitled to my own view. We agree!

The question is; what is the right path?

Right now Lance is hanging on to his sinking boat without a life raft. He'll grab at what he can.

Betsy most of all wants that proper apology and acknowledgment of the hospital room incident. As long as Lance knows that is what she wants he won't give it.

Besides he can't. How can he screw his defense up by admitting to that? The conspiracy would filter through the medical industry and beyond. He'll also have his defense that he'd just had brain surgery. I can't see it coming to fruition.

As for JV. As you know he and Lance have been talking and I think JV of all people can defend himself. He's played the game just like Armstrong did. At this point probably a little better. JV will be ok. He's be known to do some political & strategic smearing of his own.

Alas I'm not seeing that there's was any correlation made to Kik and Crow. That's just some mayonnaise you added on top.

 

[BroDeal]

Saying that Betsy was as complicit as Crow and Kristen is indeed a smear job, on this we can surly agree. Pretending that Frankie is hiding something and doped to the same level and Lance and George is obviously nonsense

Not this sh!t again. Hincapie never said Andreu doped to the same level as himself and LA. He acknowledged that Andreu stopped before he did. He only said that Andreu was part of the doping system in cycling (true) and Andreu has not let on to full extend of his doping (something that pretty much everyone here suspects).

Can't we deal with what Hincapie actually said? You guys are so wrapped up in why he said it and the timing that there has been scant effort devoted to whether what he said is true.

With hindsight it now appears some of what Armstrong said about Walsh, Tygart, and Betsy is true, and you guys cannot deal with it. The truth it turns out is a lot more complicated than Armstrong doped and is a blue ribbon winning a-hole. Some of the good guys are not looking so good anymore.

 

[red_flanders]

Pretending that Frankie is hiding something and doped to the same level and Lance and George is obviously nonsense

You previously attributed it to Hincapie, but when asked failed to respond and you keep saying it. I did not see this in Hincapie's comments. I could have missed it. I assume you're referring to Armstrong at this point?

EDIT: Sorry, repetitive of BroDeal's post.

 

[DirtyWorks]

There you go again. I have to hand it to you, you're good at smearing people and poisoning the well.

Enough with the personal attacks.

Hincapie is just telling it like it is. To dress it all up as a conspiracy theory only makes you look incredible bad.

How many years later? With that story title? Was George just itching to generate doubts about Frankie all these years and couldn't find ANYBODY ELSE to run an interview at any other time?

People were willing to brush that all aside when Lance was riding high,

Woo hoo! Sports fraud is cool! So is uncontrolled human experimentation! Just win and never test positive, oh and don't die like early EPO users, or end up in the hospital from a botched transfusion, or get cancer. Yeah, good times.

 

[Race Radio]

Alas I'm not seeing that there's was any correlation made to Kik and Crow. That's just some added mayonnaise you added on top.

Did you miss this?

“Let’s be honest about this,” Armstrong says. “We all know Frankie doped, like all of us, and of course she would have known. ... This was even a topic of discussion amongst our wives,” he says.

“I know two things: I did all of that for years, and I know what it is to procure, store, use, dispose and hide (drugs). And No. 2, I’ve lived with women during those years. Whether it’s Kristin or it’s Sheryl (Crow, a former fiancée). It is absolutely impossible to hide all that. And I’m not talking about hiding a few whatevers in your Dopp kit. ... This is not easy. It’s impossible. That is a fact. If they lived together, she knew.

I am not saying it is mandatory he apologizes to Betsy......but smearing her is a bad move. Equating her to the wife brought drugs for riders and transported EPO in a baby carriage is not the best move. Intentionally obfuscating the facts to smear Travis is not a smart move......but you are entitled to your own view

 

[Dear Wiggo]

It's certainly interesting to see how people interpret what has been written.

All I see is someone saying - if you were living with a partner, you didn't successfully hide your doping.

That's it.

No more no less.

Having lived with someone, I tend to agree. Hiding stuff - physical vials and pills and stuff - is just about impossible.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Not this sh!t again. Hincapie never said Andreu doped to the same level as himself and LA. He acknowledged that Andreu stopped before he did. He only said that Andreu was part of the doping system in cycling (true) and Andreu has not let on to full extend of his doping (something that pretty much everyone here suspects).

Can't we deal with what Hincapie actually said? You guys are so wrapped up in why he said it and the timing that there has been scant effort devoted to whether what he said is true.

With hindsight it now appears some of what Armstrong said about Walsh, Tygart, and Betsy is true, and you guys cannot deal with it. The truth it turns out is a lot more complicated than Armstrong doped and is a blue ribbon winning a-hole. Some of the good guys are not looking so good anymore.

Hold on - you are asking a fair question, wrongly.
If you are addressing RR, then address RR. The "you guys", is baiting - I agree with RR on most things, but not all. If you were including me, then address me so I can respond.

A large problem here recently is putting people in groups to dismiss them - quite frankly I expect better from you. If we wish to discuss what GH says, or the why nows, fine - but doing what you did (even if I was not included) will only bring the convo away from discussing the actual issue.

 

[Race Radio]

Not this sh!t again. Hincapie never said Andreu doped to the same level as himself and LA. He acknowledged that Andreu stopped before he did. He only said that Andreu was part of the doping system in cycling (true) and Andreu has not let on to full extend of his doping (something that pretty much everyone here suspects).

Can't we deal with what Hincapie actually said? You guys are so wrapped up in why he said it and the timing that there has been scant effort devoted to whether what he said is true.

With hindsight it now appears some of what Armstrong said about Walsh, Tygart, and Betsy is true, and you guys cannot deal with it. The truth it turns out is a lot more complicated than Armstrong doped and is a blue ribbon winning a-hole. Some of the good guys are not looking so good anymore.

Not this Sh!t again.

Regardless if you think he is referring to the system at USPS, the one detailed in the USADA report, the one that George and Lance got sanctioned for, or some vague cycling system...whatever. George's attempt to paint Frankie as an equal participant to lance and George is nonsense. He was not.

Of course George tries to paint a different picture. He paints Frankie as the reason he started doping, says that Frankie was "Demanding" drugs.

You are welcome to believe this revised version of events. I do not

 

[Netserk]

George's attempt to paint Frankie as an equal participant to lance and George is nonsense. He was not.

I'll be honest and say that I'm clueless regarding this, but isn't it only Lance who has said that?

 

[DirtyWorks]

Can't we deal with what Hincapie actually said?

I don't think there's any controversy any more regarding what's in the interview. It fits generally with the carefully constructed affidavit.

You guys are so wrapped up in why he said it and the timing that there has been scant effort devoted to whether what he said is true.

We know Lance hasn't changed one bit.

It is still the case that it is the misinformed public that doesn't understand the world according to Lance. This is a guy that has done some scary stuff to influence people in the past.

It seems both possible and likely based on past behaviour the appearance of the story serves some darker motives. Agree to disagree if you and others feel differently and I think the thread is back on track.

 

[BroDeal]

Not this Sh!t again.

Regardless if you think he is referring to the system at USPS, the one detailed in the USADA report, the one that George and Lance got sanctioned for, or some vague cycling system...whatever. George's attempt to paint Frankie as an equal participant to lance and George is nonsense. He was not.

And I quote:

“I know Frankie was part of the whole system as well,” Hincapie says of doping in the sport. “Once he left cycling, he was very opinionated...

Not a mention of USPS in there. No mention of being equal to Lance and George. None. That section of the article is about how Hincapie could not understand how Andrue could dope then attack the sport and hurt his friends. It is the same opinion he expressed to Andreu ten years ago.

 

[Netserk]

Hold on - you are asking a fair question, wrongly.
If you are addressing RR, then address RR. The "you guys", is baiting - I agree with RR on most things, but not all. If you were including me, then address me so I can respond.

That's funny.

Isn't that how you guys work it?

 

[Scott SoCal]

Not this Sh!t again.

Regardless if you think he is referring to the system at USPS, the one detailed in the USADA report, the one that George and Lance got sanctioned for, or some vague cycling system...whatever. George's attempt to paint Frankie as an equal participant to lance and George is nonsense. He was not.

Of course George tries to paint a different picture. He paints Frankie as the reason he started doping, says that Frankie was "Demanding" drugs.

You are welcome to believe this revised version of events. I do not

I wonder how long it will be before GH starts dishing on Zabriskie. Then I'll know it's about the book.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Hey BPC, props on the name. I sent up the Bat Signal a couple of days ago (because I knew if I mentioned you, you'd show up), and here you are. At least you did it with a sense of humor.

Enjoy your time here. The good news is that you have probably picked up some supporters who were once enemies. Who says things don't change?