Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession)

[DirtyWorks]

Even if Armstrong lied under oath, that would not be enough to reopen the case, said Tim Herman, Armstrong's longtime attorney.

Armstrong's side shows what a farce being "under oath" in arbitration and the arbitration process really is in the U.S. and will not be sanctioned for it. It's like lying to the press. There are no penalties!

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Well maybe it wasn't totally obvious before but his disdain for "the true believers" really came across in his Oprah interview.

Yip, the people who genuinely supported him or believed were let down.
And, also the people who knew but would have defended him anyway, LA actually burned them.

 

[Berzin]

Wading through the lies is easy. The point is not to get worked up over the minutiae.

Hincapie had the nerve to say that the first time he ever saw doping products was when Frankie Andreu introduced them to him. That's a lie if I ever heard one.

Then he said that the program Ferrari advocated was one of intensive training, dieting, and very little doping. Another flat-out lie.

Armstrong says we haven't heard the truth yet. He's floundering around like a bass tossed onto a boat after getting reeled in, and he's fighting to take the lifesaving breath that will allow him relevance in a world that has marginalized him to the back pages of a newspaper no one's ever heard of in the backyard of the very person he and Hincapie wanted to attack.

Armstrong is still childish and vindictive, and has an accordion monkey in George Hincapie who, for all the years spent propagating his nice-guy image, has shown himself to be as much an amoral snake and unrepentant goon as his snake handler.

Aside from all the lawsuits and revisionist history that Lance is left to wade through, the only people left of any interest are the bagmen and the procurers and administrators of the doping products.

Everything else is a sideshow meant to distract for the sole purpose of evading the only question worth answering-what type of doping program could possibly lead to the morphing of this idiot into the stratosphere when he never had the talent to perform any of those feats?

 

[the sceptic]

Hincapie had the nerve to say that the first time he ever saw doping products was when Frankie Andreu introduced them to him. That's a lie if I ever heard one.

When did Hincapie say that? I must have missed it.

 

[mewmewmew13]

Wading through the lies is easy. The point is not to get worked up over the minutiae.

Hincapie had the nerve to say that the first time he ever saw doping products was when Frankie Andreu introduced them to him. That's a lie if I ever heard one.

Then he said that the program Ferrari advocated was one of intensive training, dieting, and very little doping. Another flat-out lie.

Armstrong says we haven't heard the truth yet. He's floundering around like a bass tossed onto a boat after getting reeled in, and he's fighting to take the lifesaving breath that will allow him relevance in a world that has marginalized him to the back pages of a newspaper no one's ever heard of in the backyard of the very person he and Hincapie wanted to attack.

Armstrong is still childish and vindictive, and has an accordion monkey in George Hincapie who, for all the years spent propagating his nice-guy image, has shown himself to be as much an amoral snake and unrepentant goon as his snake handler.

Aside from all the lawsuits and revisionist history that Lance is left to wade through, the only people left of any interest are the bagmen and the procurers and administrators of the doping products.

Everything else is a sideshow meant to distract for the sole purpose of evading the only question worth answering-what type of doping program could possibly lead to the morphing of this idiot into the stratosphere when he never had the talent to perform any of those feats?

yes this!
Others are trying to defend George and say he has every right to speak what he thinks..but they are ignoring that what he is saying is a flat-out story.

Armstrong will never change.
He still thinks that the way he has always played is going to work for him now as well...

 

[sniper]

yes this!
Others are trying to defend George and say he has every right to speak what he thinks..but they are ignoring that what he is saying is a flat-out story.

Armstrong will never change.
He still thinks that the way he has always played is going to work for him now as well...

Like cycling sort of

 

[Granville57]

the only question worth answering-what type of doping program could possibly lead to the morphing of this idiot into the stratosphere when he never had the talent to perform any of those feats?

I am reminded of Tyler, in his book, referring to the "inner circle within the circle." Even he was suspicious of just exactly what Armstrong was up to, and what methods he was using, due to the sudden and inexplicable rise in form, just when Armstrong needed it most. This, coming from an experienced pro and legitimate GT contender, who had himself doped right alongside Armstrong.

It does make one wonder.

(When I have time, I'll try to dig up the exact quote and page number from The Secret Race.)

 

[Dr. Maserati]

yes this!
Others are trying to defend George and say he has every right to speak what he thinks..but they are ignoring that what he is saying is a flat-out story.

Armstrong will never change.
He still thinks that the way he has always played is going to work for him now as well...

Nope.
Again read what he said.

Its pretty obvious to me that he his comment is in relation to EPO. Not drugs.

“For me, it was a powerful moment that I won’t forget. It was like, ‘Oh, now I’m going to have to do that, too.’ It’s not like one of those rumors or the whispers you hear. When you actually see it and your good friend is doing it and it’s someone you look up to, it really hits you. Not that I’m blaming Frankie.”

 

[BroDeal]

Wading through the lies is easy. The point is not to get worked up over the minutiae.

Hincapie had the nerve to say that the first time he ever saw doping products was when Frankie Andreu introduced them to him. That's a lie if I ever heard one.

Jeebus! Do we have to go over this again. You are just repeating RR Fabiani's lies. Hincapie said no such thing. That section of the article was about EPO use, not general doping. Hincapie said that finding out Andreu was using EPO had a big impact on him. What he said in the interview is consistent with his affidavit. Among the reasons stated in his affidavit are the following:

* The spread of EPO had made it hard for him to keep up.

* Swart told him everyone was using EPO.

* The drug was being openly discussed in the peloton.

* Armstrong was angry after the team was crushed in MSR. Armstrong thought the team should start using EPO.

* Hincapie found out Andreu was using EPO and he knew where to buy it, a pharmacy that was an hour's drive away.

* Hincapie discussed EPO use with Livingston and Julich.

From this RR has created the spin that the Lance the Pernicious ordered everyone to use EPO so they had no choice but to obey. Plus he is stuck on some BS about Hincapie saying that Andreu's EPO use had an effect on his own decision being equivalent to saying Andreu was a drug pusher.

 

[red_flanders]

Bro,

People aren't interested in what was said, only speculation on why it was said. Like any of it matters at this point.

 

[Race Radio]

Jeebus! Do we have to go over this again. You are just repeating RR Fabiani's lies. Hincapie said no such thing. That section of the article was about EPO use, not general doping. Hincapie said that finding out Andreu was using EPO had a big impact on him. What he said in the interview is consistent with his affidavit. Among the reasons stated in his affidavit are the following:

* The spread of EPO had made it hard for him to keep up.

* Swart told him everyone was using EPO.

* The drug was being openly discussed in the peloton.

* Armstrong was angry after the team was crushed in MSR. Armstrong thought the team should start using EPO.

* Hincapie found out Andreu was using EPO and he knew where to buy it, a pharmacy that was an hour's drive away.

* Hincapie discussed EPO use with Livingston and Julich.

From this RR has created the spin that the Lance the Pernicious ordered everyone to use EPO so they had no choice but to obey. Plus he is stuck on some BS about Hincapie saying that Andreu's EPO use had an effect on his own decision being equivalent to saying Andreu was a drug pusher.

Why do you lie?

My point was very clear, thanks for proving my point. I wrote that there were many elements that pushed George to dope but to Frankie's home town newspaper George only talks about one, Frankie. The article was a clear attempt to paint Frankie, and Betsy, and far more complicit in doping then they let on. It appeared this smear job worked on some but most saw right through it

I look forward to George clearing all this up for you. Stay tuned

 

[BroDeal]

My point was very clear, thanks for proving my point. I wrote that there were many elements that pushed George to dope but to Frankie's home town newspaper George only talks about one, Frankie. The article was a clear attempt to paint Frankie, and Betsy, and far more complicit in doping then they let on. It appeared this smear job worked on some but most saw right through it

Why do you lie?

You have repeatedly said that Hincapie said Andreu was a drug pusher. Now that you look like a fool for supporting an indefensible--and disgraceful I might add--position, you suddenly see shades of gray and admit that there were a lot of factors that went into Hincapie's decision to use EPO.

 

[mewmewmew13]

Nope.
Again read what he said.

Its pretty obvious to me that he his comment is in relation to EPO. Not drugs.

What's strange to me is the wording..you can interpret it one way..but then he adds."Not that I'm blaming Frankie"..as sort of disclaimer like subconsciously he's sheepish about his erroneous comment

sorry I get what your'e saying but I still think George is lying somewhere there..

 

[PosterBill]

I don't quite get why people are hammering "brodeal"...his perspective on this is one of many. I believe he has some valid points and legit narratives. I have a hard time following alternative narratives when it comes to Frankie, the fact that he took a job at Postal the following year. I commend Betsy for her deposition but their is some gray area when dealing with the totality of the Andreau's story.

 

[Race Radio]

Why do you lie?

You have repeatedly said that Hincapie said Andreu was a drug pusher. Now that you look like a fool for supporting an indefensible--and disgraceful I might add--position, you suddenly see shades of gray and admit that there were a lot of factors that went into Hincapie's decision to use EPO.

George said Frankie using EPO led him to start using it. George said Frankie taught him how to dope. told him where to get it, even supplied him with it. It may not be obvious to you but to most it is clear that George is trying to paint Frankie as a pusher.

If you are so obsessed with lies you might want to focus on George's lies

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I don't quite get why people are hammering "brodeal"...his perspective on this is one of many. I believe he has some valid points and legit narratives. I have a hard time following alternative narratives when it comes to Frankie, the fact that he took a job at Postal the following year. I commend Betsy for her deposition but their is some gray area when dealing with the totality of the Andreau's story.

What do you want to know?

FA didn't dope in 2000, and rejected calls to go to Ferrari. When his contract was up the team would not renew at a price.
So Frankie tried to set up some deals to be a DS - he got 2 offers, and the Bruyneel called, Frankie mentioned who he was talking to and suddenly those offers were pulled.
Then JB calls up with a DS position, at a low price.

If theres anything more you need to know, ask away.

 

[PosterBill]

Much of what you is not documented Maserati. It's basically Frankie's belief without much evidence. My god, in 2000 Frankie had been racing for close to 16 years. It does not make a lot of sense to me that he was offered 2 jobs at his age without much of a resume. There is so much politicking involved in contract talks that it's impossible to know what the truth is.

But why would Postal turn around and hire a guy they blacklisted? And why would they even care to blacklist Frankie? Why would Frankie accept a position on a known doping caravan that was postal? Is it really just all about money? I think that's a fair question. I wonder how the deposition would have gone if Frankie had been still employed by Armstrong. Would Betsy have still felt an eternal quest for the truth?? I have my doubts

 

[Race Radio]

Much of what you is not documented Maserati. It's basically Frankie's belief without much evidence. My god, in 2000 Frankie had been racing for close to 16 years. It does not make a lot of sense to me that he was offered 2 jobs at his age without much of a resume. There is so much politicking involved in contract talks that it's impossible to know what the truth is.

But why would Postal turn around and hire a guy they blacklisted? And why would they even care to blacklist Frankie? Why would Frankie accept a position on a known doping caravan that was postal? Is it really just all about money? I think that's a fair question. I wonder how the deposition would have gone if Frankie had been still employed by Armstrong. Would Betsy have still felt an eternal quest for the truth?? I have my doubts

16 years as a Pro? Road captain of the team that won the last 2 Tours? A guy like Frankie was in demand. Of course he would have offers

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Much of what you is not documented Maserati. It's basically Frankie's belief without much evidence. My god, in 2000 Frankie had been racing for close to 16 years. It does not make a lot of sense to me that he was offered 2 jobs at his age without much of a resume. There is so much politicking involved in contract talks that it's impossible to know what the truth is.

It is but it is in books like From Lance To Landis etc.

As for his career - the 2 jobs were as DS - but even LA still thought Frankie had retired too soon and should still race, even offered to set him up.

But why would Postal turn around and hire a guy they blacklisted? And why would they even care to blacklist Frankie? Why would Frankie accept a position on a known doping caravan that was postal? Is it really just all about money? I think that's a fair question. I wonder how the deposition would have gone if Frankie had been still employed by Armstrong. Would Betsy have still felt an eternal quest for the truth?? I have my doubts

Who said they blacklisted him? Not me.

Read what I wrote - they did not agree terms, standard stuff - so Frankie looked elsewhere.
As for Frankie going to Postal - he was running the US based team.
And he was hardly in a position to refuse because of doping, as he himself had doped.
This isn't hard to follow.

 

[PosterBill]

There were quite a few "scrub" like riders on Postal in the early years, guys that were expendable...but maybe you are right and he had offers.

RR, a question for you especially since you have close relationship with Betsy.

If Frankie had been still employed by Armstrong by the year of the deposition, would betsy and Frankie have testified the same?

 

[Race Radio]

There were quite a few "scrub" like riders on Postal in the early years, guys that were expendable...but maybe you are right and he had offers.

RR, a question for you especially since you have close relationship with Betsy.

If Frankie had been still employed by Armstrong by the year of the deposition, would betsy and Frankie have testified the same?

I can't speak for them but I cannot see any way that they would lie under oath.

They did not attack Lance, they refused to lie for him

 

[Dr. Maserati]

There were quite a few "scrub" like riders on Postal in the early years, guys that were expendable...but maybe you are right and he had offers.

RR, a question for you especially since you have close relationship with Betsy.

If Frankie had been still employed by Armstrong by the year of the deposition, would betsy and Frankie have testified the same?

You do realise that Frankie is still a DS in the US?
He was road captain - he knows how to race, thats what you want.

 

[Berzin]

When did Hincapie say that? I must have missed it.

In "The Armstrong Lie".

 

[D-Queued]

The back of Juliet Macur's new book.

Classic spin once again. What about guys like Mark Scanlon? I remember watching him busting his *** in the gruppetto in 2004. He had his career robbed by the doping culture.

Encroyable!

This book is real.

I may have to change my siggy: Lance Armstrong: "(You're) F___ing dumb"

Dave.

 

[Malvolio]

I can't speak for them but I cannot see any way that they would lie under oath.

They did not attack Lance, they refused to lie for him

It's not actually true though, is it. In this very forum Betsy admitted that Frankie was ready to commit perjury if he was asked if he had ever seen Armstrong dope. She said breezily "Frankie was going to use the ol "can't remember".

The blatant hypocrisy of this is mind boggling. All this pious moralising about not lying for Lance. It turns out they were planning to commit perjury all along. Betsy herself said she argued with Lance on many other occasions about EPO and drugs in sport, but she wasn't going to mention any of that. It was just about making sure he was hit in the pocket.

Look, its well documented that Armstrong wasn't the nicest of guys to everybody, we know that, but all this sanctimonious moralising really takes the ****. You talk about Lance's agenda in all this, but what about Betsy's agenda? Her facebook page is a shrine to taking down Lance - anyone would still think the tours have't been taken away yet. Something is not right there....we all saw what she did after Oprah on CNN...and you don't seem very well either to be honest.

When are you guys going end this dirty campaign and start talking honestly?