Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession)

[Race Radio]

Not sure what you mean or if you even know what you're talking about.

Would not expect you to understand

 

[Scott SoCal]

As I understand it 62 (Now 65) is just for the tax related benefits homesteading provides in Texas. It does not apply to the credit and collections part

Got it.

He's still f'd. He's too young, no pension and I'd bet he has little if any TQ protected money.

He loses anything close to the numbers being discussed and he'll be washing dishes at Yellow Rose.

 

[thehog]

Would not expect you to understand

You could always elaborate so you could be understood. But it's fairly obvious you have no idea what you're talking about or even what point you're making.

Reminds me of Vaughters high school graduate vs Stokes MSc.

But carry on. The commentary is amusing

 

[M Sport]

A few questions on this mess as I'm not privy to US trust law.

Would it not be reasonable to assume Lance's assets were already tied up in trusts with his children as beneficiaries at a future date? In Australia when you accumulate serious wealth you start keeping assets very separate from the main income earner. Is that not the case in the US? Is there no protection for well established trusts?

I read quite sometime ago the feds were after $21 million approx to settle, is that no longer the case?

Any ideas or estimates on LA's net worth right now?

 

[DirtyWorks]

Weisel can still be a target.....by Lance. Once the Government wins its case lance can then go sue Thom and others for $$$

Well played by Weisel. Well played.

We know Wonderboy to be a champion. Hey Wonderboy, we all know Thom is to blame. Be a champion cyclist and go after Thom Wiesel! Fiiiiiiight!!!

 

[DirtyWorks]

It is reasonable to assume Lance's assets were already tied up in trusts of some kind protecting his assets.

Fixed that for you.

The simple answer is "yes." But, is what he's done sufficient? Most posting here do not seem to be expert in the legal intricacies of this very specific area of Federal lawsuits and collecting on them. Sorry if I've offended anyone.

Scott SoCal, my belief is he's got a good chunk of change hidden as this has been coming in slow motion for years now. He will be flying commercial (horrors!!!) and maybe playing golf in San Diego, not Hawaii. It will be nice if the shop is on the block and becomes a Performance location.

 

[M Sport]

Fixed that for you.

The simple answer is "yes." But, is what he's done sufficient? Most posting here do not seem to be expert in the legal intricacies of this very specific area of Federal lawsuits and collecting on them. Sorry if I've offended anyone

You just worded it a different way. We already know Lance can't trust wife's mothers, etc and the ultimate beneficiary has to be someone other than yourself. That pretty much only leaves his children. And as they will be around quite sometime they are the most likely beneficiaries of any trust. Anyway, that point is relatively unimportant as it's the second paragraph I'm interested in answers to and seems you are too.

 

[thehog]

You just worded it a different way. We already know Lance can't trust wife's mothers, etc and the ultimate beneficiary has to be someone other than yourself. That pretty much only leaves his children. And as they will be around quite sometime they are the most likely beneficiaries of any trust. Anyway, that point is relatively unimportant as it's the second paragraph I'm interested in answers to and seems you are too.

Kik still loves him and I think he trusts her more than anyone. Plenty of invisible backpacks stuffed with sadness and hidden assets under her name.

 

[sittingbison]

You just worded it a different way. We already know Lance can't trust his mothers, etc ...

fixed that for you too (at no extra charge of course )

 

[sittingbison]

Gentle(wo)men,
this thread is NOT to be derailed by bickering and oneupmanship. I want to read your thoughts on Lances travails, not referee a catfight at the Yellow Rose

 

[sittingbison]

Gentle(wo)men,
this thread is NOT to be derailed by bickering and oneupmanship. I want to read your thoughts on Lances travails, not referee a catfight at the Yellow Rose

So suck it up, and if you REALLY want to troll nip into a Dawg thread instead. At least they are a joke, while this is serious stuff (although I'm having a laugh at Lances predicament)

 

[MarkvW]

Once upon a time we were warned not to modify and misquote another poster's work. Now mods do it.

 

[RobbieCanuck]

I found the wording of that to be a bit strange. Insufficient "evidence" would be one thing. But insufficient "allegations"?

Maybe there's a legal definition in there that escapes me (being that I'm not a lawyer, and all...)

When a person commences a lawsuit, they must have a "cause of action" (i.e. a valid legal complaint and not just some frivolous claim). That person must specifically state the cause of action in the claim document. These documents are commonly referred to as the "pleadings" and after they are filed at a courthouse the pleadings become part of the "record"

In order to support the claim the plaintiff or relator in this case must also state in the claim the facts on which they rely to prove the cause of action or claim. Generally speaking one does not plead any law in the pleadings just facts, from which it can be shown or at least reasonably be shown the facts support the cause of action.

In this case the judge appears to have found either the claim does not disclose a cause of action or that there is not a sufficient factual basis alleged in the claim that Weisel knew there was doping (I have not read the judgment, so I am not sure) This may answer your question to some degree.

If I find time to read the decision and it turns out I am not correct, I will post you.

 

[Scott SoCal]

Fixed that for you.

The simple answer is "yes." But, is what he's done sufficient? Most posting here do not seem to be expert in the legal intricacies of this very specific area of Federal lawsuits and collecting on them. Sorry if I've offended anyone.

Scott SoCal, my belief is he's got a good chunk of change hidden as this has been coming in slow motion for years now. He will be flying commercial (horrors!!!) and maybe playing golf in San Diego, not Hawaii. It will be nice if the shop is on the block and becomes a Performance location.

Civil judgements are rough. Just ask OJ.

I don't think trusts are going to be of any real help, could be wrong. It's one thing for you to sue Monkeyface and win.... Your attorney's asset search will reveal whatever it reveals. The Feds have a whole bunch more firepower.

I don't know if 5year look-back applies, but if it does they can unwind anything he's done, any/all financial moves over that period of time.

I'm guessing, but he loses $100M suit and you can put a fork in him. I think that's the primary reason he's fighting as hard as he is. Everything he has or ever will have is on the line. Again, I very easily could be wrong.

 

[D-Queued]

...

Also the judge makes it clear that the Government can go back to 1995 so the total they can ask for just went up.

...

Awesome. Just awesome.

... (although I'm having a laugh at Lances predicament)

Yup.

Dave.

 

[Race Radio]

I don't know if 5year look-back applies, but if it does they can unwind anything he's done, any/all financial moves over that period of time.
.

Clawbacks are a beach..... What are the time limits on them these days for personal bankruptcy? For most business Chap 11's it is 3 years. If it is 5 years wonderboy is screwed.

If Kristen is hiding his money she is doing it well, she had to sell her house last year and do a major downsizing.

As for Weisel, he is not completely off the hook, he is on pause. If/when the depositions expose his knowledge then he certainly can be pulled into this directly

 

[deviant]

Lance could have (and should have) been putting money away off shore and out of reach of the US authorities given how he fraudulently earned it.

f he has then good on him, i dont see all the other cheats from this era being pursued as relentlessly as him, there is an element of being made the scapegoat here.

If he hasnt put money out of reach of the authorities then he is very silly and deserves all he gets....personally i'd like to see him in 10 years time, living in a tax exile country with millions in a Swiss bank account giving the finger to the authorities.

He cheated in a bike race, get a grip people, try to have some perspective.

 

[Scott SoCal]

Clawbacks are a beach..... What are the time limits on them these days for personal bankruptcy? For most business Chap 11's it is 3 years. If it is 5 years wonderboy is screwed.

If Kristen is hiding his money she is doing it well, she had to sell her house last year and do a major downsizing.

As for Weisel, he is not completely off the hook, he is on pause. If/when the depositions expose his knowledge then he certainly can be pulled into this directly

BK does nothing for civil liability. Current creditors get flushed but the judgement will follow until met.

Not sure how it will effect the divorce decree. I'm guessing Kik would be wise to curtail the spending.

 

[Race Radio]

Lance could have (and should have) been putting money away off shore and out of reach of the US authorities given how he fraudulently earned it.

f he has then good on him, i dont see all the other cheats from this era being pursued as relentlessly as him, there is an element of being made the scapegoat here.

If he hasnt put money out of reach of the authorities then he is very silly and deserves all he gets....personally i'd like to see him in 10 years time, living in a tax exile country with millions in a Swiss bank account giving the finger to the authorities.

He cheated in a bike race, get a grip people, try to have some perspective.

This case is about cheating on a contract to fraudulently enrich himself. Unlike Mayo, Ullrich, etc. Lance actually owned part of his team, which is one of the reasons he is a target.

As for being a scapegoat......did you have the same feeling when all those folks from Festina spent time in Jail? Did you tell everyone they were scapegoats? How about when the UCI pursued Ullrich for 6 years after he retired, was he a scapegoat? When the German government pursued him for 7 years until he finally settled for 1,000,000......was Jan a scapegoat then? Lance had the chance to settle, but he blew it and now will lose everything.

The sport has been in a big transition over the last 5-10 years. It has gone from the Wild West to gradually a much greater amount of accountability. Some folks walked, others didn't.......but lets not pretend he was singled out.

 

[Scott SoCal]

Lance could have (and should have) been putting money away off shore and out of reach of the US authorities given how he fraudulently earned it.

f he has then good on him, i dont see all the other cheats from this era being pursued as relentlessly as him, there is an element of being made the scapegoat here.

If he hasnt put money out of reach of the authorities then he is very silly and deserves all he gets....personally i'd like to see him in 10 years time, living in a tax exile country with millions in a Swiss bank account giving the finger to the authorities.

He cheated in a bike race, get a grip people, try to have some perspective.

Asset search by the Feds will uncover anything/everything he's done. If I know about Six Lounge/The Market in Austin then so does the government.

Off-shore strategies won't help him.

 

[aphronesis]

This case is about cheating on a contract to fraudulently enrich himself. Unlike Mayo, Ullrich, etc. Lance actually owned part of his team, which is one of the reasons he is a target.

As for being a scapegoat......did you have the same feeling when all those folks from Festina spent time in Jail? Did you tell everyone they were scapegoats? How about when the UCI pursued Ullrich for 6 years after he retired, was he a scapegoat? When the German government pursued him for 7 years until he finally settled for 1,000,000......was Jan a scapegoat then? Lance had the chance to settle, but he blew it and now will lose everything.

The sport has been in a big transition over the last 5-10 years. It has gone from the Wild West to gradually a much greater amount of accountability. Some folks walked, others didn't.......but lets not pretend he was singled out.

Mmn. You were almost on a roll there and looking as if there were a coherent argument, but this situation is not about the "sport". Cycling is not a sport to this country. Never will be as such. And the lawsuit has nothing to do with that. Your first line says as much.

Let's not pretend the "singling" came from a unified or related set of impulses.

Be nice if you and the old desperate warriors on this thread could be honest about that.

But it's not likely to happen.

 

[thehog]

BK does nothing for civil liability. Current creditors get flushed but the judgement will follow until met.

Not sure how it will effect the divorce decree. I'm guessing Kik would be wise to curtail the spending.

She would be wise as he has been to give the appearance of owning little and nothing of tangibility than can be sold.

No doubt both have taken a good deal of advice on the matter. You don't sit around waiting for the Feds to send the removal trucks in. You prepare.

I'm sure the Feds via the NSA have taps on all electronic communication and movements of money/assets.

If own 50m then it's worth paying someone 3m to preserve 30m.

Let's see. Using Enron or Lehmans as an example; it took so long for the government to get some of its money it ended agreeing to reduced settlements.

 

[Digger]

People haven't got a notion on here - they read a few legal documents and they think they do.

 

[Herbstrong]

People haven't got a notion on here - they read a few legal documents and they think they do.

haha. amen.

 

[Race Radio]

Mmn. You were almost on a roll there and looking as if there were a coherent argument, but this situation is not about the "sport". Cycling is not a sport to this country. Never will be as such. And the lawsuit has nothing to do with that. Your first line says as much.

Let's not pretend the "singling" came from a unified or related set of impulses.

Be nice if you and the old desperate warriors on this thread could be honest about that.

But it's not likely to happen.

It would be nice if you wrote a post that actually made sense