Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession)

[Race Radio]

A perfectly legitimate tactic. I'm sure you didn't forget the offer to Lance... talk/cooperate and the ban will be reduced.

Yup. Clearly spelled out in the WADA code, partially written by Lance's agent Bill Stapleton. Lance chose to sue USADA, lobby to get them defunded, and obstruct their investigation. Everyone else chose to talk

No wonder he told Oprah that if he could do it all over again he would take USADA's offer

 

[thehog]

A perfectly legitimate tactic. I'm sure you didn't forget the offer to Lance... talk/cooperate and the ban will be reduced.
.

But was it?

I thought Landis was responding to a testosterone positive? Not whether there was doping at USPS or not. Why would that be tactic?

Cooperation is not a one way street, it comes from both sides. I'm not seeing USADA interested in the actual charge, only about another cyclist on another team in another year. What did doping USPS have to do with a alleged positive test at the 2006 Tour de France by a rider on different team?

 

[Scott SoCal]

Which is at direct contrast with the public statements made by those same athletes.

Additionally to the legally binding supporting affidavit from Vaughters towards Armstrong at the SCA hearing.

I've not seen any evidence that Vaugters cooperated with the anti-doping authorities until the USADA RD. Yes, he spoke with them but it was never on the record so who knows what deals he was attempting to strike. I assume that once terms where in his favor he talked 'officially' - i.e. statute of limitations had tolled, no suspensions/6 month suspension deals.

If there was a true anti-doping intent then you go on the record once you're aware of what transpired not when you wish to have the game play in your favor.

Which is at direct contrast with the public statements made by those same athletes.

You mean like Zabriskie?

I've not seen any evidence that Vaugters cooperated with the anti-doping authorities until the USADA RD.

That is pretty definitive right there.

Yes, he spoke with them but it was never on the record so who knows what deals he was attempting to strike.

Sure. Stands to reason.

BTW, when did you find out about Hesjedal's confession/testimony?

I assume that once terms where in his favor he talked 'officially'

IIf there was a true anti-doping intent then you go on the record once you're aware of what transpired not when you wish to have the game play in your favor

Seem to recall JV outing his riders right here on this forum.

Further, how do you know whether Travis may have asked JV not to talk until the dust settled? Seems logical since TT was negotiating with LA right up to the end.

 

[Scott SoCal]

But was it?

I thought Landis was responding to a testosterone positive? Not whether there was doping at USPS or not. Why would that be tactic?

Cooperation is not a one way street, it comes from both sides. I'm not seeing USADA interested in the actual charge, only about another cyclist on another team in another year. What did doping USPS have to do with a alleged positive test at the 2006 Tour de France by a rider on different team?

Maybe take a stab at answering your own silly question.

I'm not seeing USADA interested in the actual charge

Wow. Must not be happening then.

What did doping USPS have to do with a alleged positive test at the 2006 Tour de France by a rider on different team?

Huh, I dunno... maybe everything?

 

[thehog]

Further, how do you know whether Travis may have asked JV not to talk until the dust settled? Seems logical since TT was negotiating with LA right up to the end.

I'm not following. You mean Vaughters only went to USADA in 2012? 13 years after he doped with USPS and with knowledge that his riders had doped also up to 2006?

He sat on all that information for years and never went on record with USADA? At the same time Vaughters over the years made pubic statements about being no EPO at USPS, machine calibration errors, writing legal documents in support of Armstrong.

Doesn't strike me as the behavior of someone with anti-doping at the forefront of their minds. Nor Tygart. If Tygart knew this prior why didn't he act? For the simple reason Vaughters & his team weren't prepared to go on record and tell the truth.

They needed Landis & the Feds to effectively corner them into telling the truth. It's fairly straightforward.

 

[thehog]

Huh, I dunno... maybe everything?

Still not following. I thought landis was contesting an alleged testosterone positive? Not whether there was doping on another team.

Surely he had the right to defend that claim and work within the bounds of the charge and not have to be the nominated spokesperson for doping on USPS?

Tygart should have stuck to the charge sheet. Not the notoriety that a USPS/Armstrong doping scandal would have brought him.

Indicative that Joe Papp was Tygarts number one star witness that TT wasn't interested in working on the actual testosterone charge itself. It's like he pulled the first guy he found on the side of the street and asked him to provide testimony!

 

[BroDeal]

Oh dear...

Speaking of myths and propaganda, do you really think Betsy becomes anything other than a very peripheral figure in this saga by talking to journo's?

I guess she really did bring this fight to monkeymouth.

You completely missed the point. The myth of Saint Andreu is that she was minding her own business, was subpoenaed for the SCA case, refused to lie for Armstrong, and suffered because of that when Armstrong put her on his enemies list. The post of yours I replied to uses this phony timeline to put the blame on Armstrong and gain sympathy for one side of the fight. The truth is that for years prior to the SCA arbitration she had been seeking out journalists to damage her husband's ex-friends. That is vastly different than the faux struggle of good versus evil that was done for the cause of truth and improvement of cycling. It is instead a sordid tale of spite, jealousy, and personal grudges. It is conflict between two people with the same vindictive personality traits. This has become very evident by what has transpired since Armstrong was brought down.

 

[DirtyWorks]

If Tygart knew this prior why didn't he act? For the simple reason Vaughters & his team weren't prepared to go on record and tell the truth.

They needed Landis & the Feds to effectively corner them into telling the truth. It's fairly straightforward.

Let's imagine a scenario where just JV's boys talk. It would have been an incredibly risky strategy to pursue sanctions. NADO's have almost no authority or budget, so I don't see how they could.

Landis +JV, + every other rider burned by Armstrong AND THEN pursuing Armstrong was the best path forward. Well played by a politically weak organization.

At this point in time, it cost the head of WADA his job and WADA has been further weakened by the sports federations. It was the best possible outcome.

 

[laurel1969]

Does anybody come out of this smelling of roses?

Lemond is just about the only one I can think of.

 

[DirtyWorks]

faux struggle of good versus evil that was done for the cause of truth and improvement of cycling.

We're being asked to pretend Armstrong wasn't pursuing the Andreaus the whole time.

Nope.

 

[Scott SoCal]

You completely missed the point. The myth of Saint Andreu is that she was minding her own business, was subpoenaed for the SCA case, refused to lie for Armstrong, and suffered because of that when Armstrong put her on his enemies list. The post of yours I replied to uses this phony timeline to put the blame on Armstrong and gain sympathy for one side of the fight. The truth is that for years prior to the SCA arbitration she had been seeking out journalists to damage her husband's ex-friends. That is vastly different than the faux struggle of good versus evil that was done for the cause of truth and improvement of cycling. It is instead a sordid tale of spite, jealousy, and personal grudges. It is conflict between two people with the same vindictive personality traits. This has become very evident by what has transpired since Armstrong was brought down.

uses this phony timeline to put the blame on Armstrong and gain sympathy for one side of the fight.

BS. Betsy is alleged to be the "champion" of Armstrong's fall. "Obsessed" with his demise, blah, blah, blah. That is hell and gone from a try for sympathy.

Telling the truth really does start a ****storm, doesn't it?

The truth is that for years prior to the SCA arbitration she had been seeking out journalists to damage her husband's ex-friends.

To damage? So the truth now is damaging? Alrighty then.

That is vastly different than the faux struggle of good versus evil that was done for the cause of truth and improvement of cycling. It is instead a sordid tale of spite, jealousy, and personal grudges.

Being generous, I think your opinion is off the mark.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Does anybody come out of this smelling of roses?

Lemond is just about the only one I can think of.

The Andreaus maybe?

Frankie goes public in an environment that was absolutely hostile to doping confessions and then is relentlessly pursued by other actors in cycling.

Both are still subject to actors in cycling trying to discredit them. The most recent example George admits Wonderboy put him up to describing Frankie as a doping mastermind in a recent article.

Good thing this topic was covered in the Andreau Strategies global media empire emails. Bennotti, the email is entitled "Official Background Story"

 

[Scott SoCal]

We're being asked to pretend Armstrong wasn't pursuing the Andreaus the whole time.

Nope.

Yep. I mean, wtf? This is pretty recent history.

 

[elizab]

You completely missed the point. The myth of Saint Andreu is that she was minding her own business, was subpoenaed for the SCA case, refused to lie for Armstrong, and suffered because of that when Armstrong put her on his enemies list. The post of yours I replied to uses this phony timeline to put the blame on Armstrong and gain sympathy for one side of the fight. The truth is that for years prior to the SCA arbitration she had been seeking out journalists to damage her husband's ex-friends. That is vastly different than the faux struggle of good versus evil that was done for the cause of truth and improvement of cycling. It is instead a sordid tale of spite, jealousy, and personal grudges. It is conflict between two people with the same vindictive personality traits. This has become very evident by what has transpired since Armstrong was brought down.

Yo Bro! I never realized I was on your mind so much. xoxo
I'm not a saint yet but before I'm canonized let's get the facts straight:

* I hated the doping, when I found out Frankie used epo I flipped. He never used again after th 99 Tour.

* When I saw lance decimate in Futuroscope in 99, I knew he was doping but there was nowhere to turn; I also didn't have any proof.

* I told James Startt about the hospital room in 2000. By then, it was the open secret everyone knew. Later that year he told me about the Troll and asked if I would talk to him. Three years later Walsh called me. He was the only journalist I talked to and I didn't seek him out.

* 2004 Bob Hamman called me about SCA. He asked if I would tell the truth under oath.

If you think I'm a saint, I can't argue I am being that I'm married to Frankie. I ask you respect my holiness and refer to me as St. Elizabeth. That's the least you can do.

Continue to muddy the waters. It's pretty fun.

 

[elizab]

The Andreaus maybe?

Frankie goes public in an environment that was absolutely hostile to doping confessions and then is relentlessly pursued by other actors in cycling.

Both are still subject to actors in cycling trying to discredit them. The most recent example George admits Wonderboy put him up to describing Frankie as a doping mastermind in a recent article.

Good thing this topic was covered in the Andreau Strategies global media empire emails. Bennotti, the email is entitled "Official Background Story"

You signed an NDA DirtyWorks. If you want your money, shut up.

We're being asked to pretend Armstrong wasn't pursuing the Andreaus the whole time.

Nope.

No "a" at the end of Andreu. Do you want to be fired?

 

[The Hitch]

lol

10 c

 

[MarkvW]

.....The truth is that for years prior to the SCA arbitration she had been seeking out journalists to damage her husband's ex-friends.....

What is your source for this?

 

[Race Radio]

What is your source for this?

The Aspen Institute of Bull $hit

 

[Beech Mtn]

You signed an NDA DirtyWorks. If you want your money, shut up.



No "a" at the end of Andreu. Do you want to be fired?

This is starting to sound a lot like the way Lance does business.

 

[thehog]

The Aspen Institute of Bull $hit

Quell there Mr. Conflict. If you wish to respond, respond in kind. Hurling abuse and personal attacks doesn't help anyone.

 

[Scott SoCal]

Quell there Mr. Conflict. If you wish to respond, respond in kind. Hurling abuse and personal attacks doesn't help anyone.

Thanks for moderating Hog.

Unrelenting trolling and baiting doesn't help anyone either.

 

[Race Radio]

Still not following. I thought landis was contesting an alleged testosterone positive? Not whether there was doping on another team.

Surely he had the right to defend that claim and work within the bounds of the charge and not have to be the nominated spokesperson for doping on USPS?

Tygart should have stuck to the charge sheet. Not the notoriety that a USPS/Armstrong doping scandal would have brought him.

Indicative that Joe Papp was Tygarts number one star witness that TT wasn't interested in working on the actual testosterone charge itself. It's like he pulled the first guy he found on the side of the street and asked him to provide testimony!

This means that if JTL decides to talk they should not ask him any questions about SKY because it happen while he was riding on Endura

Don't ask, don't tell

 

[DirtyWorks]

You signed an NDA DirtyWorks. If you want your money, shut up.

No "a" at the end of Andreu. Do you want to be fired?

My manager already re-sent me the style manual. He reports to your director of communication and world domination. This is not going to look good for my annual review.

 

[thehog]

This means that if JTL decides to talk they should not ask him any questions about SKY because it happen while he was riding on Endura

Don't ask, don't tell

But it didn't happen whilst he was riding at Endura. The blood draw was at the World Championships when he was representing GB under British Cycling (Brailsford).

You aware that he was riding for BC, yes?

Nevertheless, if you're comfortable with Landis being demonized by Tygart in this fashion that's fine. I know, the objective was to get Lance thus not allow one individual the ability to defend themselves fairly.

I'm not comfortable with the method applied as it assumed "guilt" on Landis's behalf for the testosterone charge rather than allowing him the ability to defend the inconsistencies in the testing procedures, UCI involvement etc.

 

[Race Radio]

I'm not comfortable with the method applied as it assumed "guilt" on Landis's behalf for the testosterone charge rather than allowing him the ability to defend the inconsistencies in the testing procedures, UCI involvement etc.

At this point it is clear you have no intention of discussing this. Landis A&B had already tested positive. That is the process. He was offer the opportunity for a reduced sanction. He turned it down

If you actually read the WADA code you would not need the faux outrage.

Substantial Assistance in Discovering or Establishing Anti-Doping Rule Violations

An Anti-Doping Organization with results management responsibility for an anti-doping rule violation may, prior to a final appellate decision under Article 13 or the expiration of the time to appeal, suspend a part of the
period of Ineligibility imposed in an individual case where the Athlete or other Person has provided Substantial Assistance to an Anti Doping Organization, criminal authority or professional disciplinary body which results in the Anti Doping Organization discovering or establishing an anti-doping rule violation by another Person or which results in a criminal or disciplinary body discovering or establishing a criminal offense or the breach of

There is a process for Floyd to address any testing "Inconsistencies" He followed that process to the end. Don't know why you would pretend he was not allowed to defend.

Vaughters was supposed to tell all, but Floyd was supposed to keep quite? Zerbil never should have talked about doping on other teams and riders?