Official Lance Armstrong Thread **READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING**

[flicker]

Did you watch Pelley's take on Tyler and why he thought he was so credible?

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504803_162-20064874-10391709.html?tag=component.0?tag=facebook

I actually thought Pelley gave a great interview, and Tyler was believable.
If he had gone into Tyler's previous statements/excuses about not being a doper, his tour diaries, association with Botero, Sevilla, Micheal Ball Lengarde, Rock Racing.being busted,(third time while wearing the national jersey, I think the interview would have been relevant. I mean come on he raced with Basso while Basso was involved with Puerto, Bjarne his manager, CSC, please. Phonak as Floyd said was dirty. Doping charts found with Tyler, I have seen reproductions of his doing schedules here in the clinic.
Pelley mentioned none of that, only hamilton armstrong hincapie andreau.
I don't feel sorry for Tyler. He sent his medal back good.
I guess cycling is all about armstrong reading the clinic here.

 

[Benotti69]

<snip>

I guess cycling is all about armstrong reading the clinic here.

and boy i bet he does, a lot....

 

[skippythepinhead]

I actually thought Pelley gave a great interview, and Tyler was believable.
If he had gone into Tyler's previous statements/excuses about not being a doper, his tour diaries, association with Botero, Sevilla, Micheal Ball Lengarde, Rock Racing.being busted,(third time while wearing the national jersey, I think the interview would have been relevant. I mean come on he raced with Basso while Basso was involved with Puerto, Bjarne his manager, CSC, please. Phonak as Floyd said was dirty. Doping charts found with Tyler, I have seen reproductions of his doing schedules here in the clinic.
Pelley mentioned none of that, only hamilton armstrong hincapie andreau.
I don't feel sorry for Tyler. He sent his medal back good.
I guess cycling is all about armstrong reading the clinic here.

Really? The fact that the interview wasn't more focused on the forensic doping history of the guy who was admitting to comprehensive doping is what struck you? Seriously?

It would be funny if it weren't so pathetically weak.

 

[VeloCity]

I actually thought Pelley gave a great interview, and Tyler was believable.
If he had gone into Tyler's previous statements/excuses about not being a doper, his tour diaries, association with Botero, Sevilla, Micheal Ball Lengarde, Rock Racing.being busted,(third time while wearing the national jersey, I think the interview would have been relevant. I mean come on he raced with Basso while Basso was involved with Puerto, Bjarne his manager, CSC, please. Phonak as Floyd said was dirty. Doping charts found with Tyler, I have seen reproductions of his doing schedules here in the clinic.
Pelley mentioned none of that, only hamilton armstrong hincapie andreau.
I don't feel sorry for Tyler. He sent his medal back good.
I guess cycling is all about armstrong reading the clinic here.

The people who watch 60 Minutes have never heard of, and couldn't care less about, Rock Racing or Michael Ball or Leogrande or Riis or CSC or Phonak. They've heard of Armstrong, so I'm not surprised that he was the primary focus.

But as a cycling fan, I was a bit disappointed that so much of the focus was on Armstrong and not more on doping in cycling in general, and I got the feeling that Tyler wanted to talk about doping in a broader context and not just about Armstrong, but Pelley kept bringing it back to Armstrong. I'd like to have heard more about Hamilton's personal history of doping.

 

[MarkvW]

You should be banned permanently

Flicker did not vent an unreasonable opinion. Tyler Hamilton is a liar and a cheat. The man himself said so on national TV.

Forget about Lance's doping (for just a millisecond), and think about the organized team doping at USPS. All of Armstrong's main lieutenants are now deeply linked to doping, and multiple domestiques have also come forward. People tell me cycling is a team sport. Doesn't Armstrong's forever-tainted team, alone, establish that Armstrong's victories depended upon doping?

People SAY cycling is a team sport, but when a rider tests positive only the rider gets suspended. That's BS.

I gladly accept that Landis and Hamilton and Hincapie and Andreu and Heras and others on the USPS team are big fat liars and cheats. Those are the dopers that Armstrong surrounded himself with. It was his team, for chrissake. How in the world can Armstrong claim that he didn't know about pervasive (admitted) doping on HIS team?

The big problem for Armstrong is that the liars are cross-corroborating each other and there is supporting documentary evidence.

The secret telephone system is very interesting. If Lance used the same phone to talk to his doping teammates that he used to telephone his dealer . . . the feds can use pen register data to discover the network of doping-associated phone calls.

I still think the doping investigation is dealer-oriented, rather than user-oriented. That is also the best likely scenario for a legal takedown of the 'Lance is clean' myth. It justifies the expensive criminal investigation better than any other criminal investigation scenario that has been posited here. It is also consistent with the way doping investigations are generally undertaken. It would be unusually weird if the feds gave a dealer immunity to get a user. The 'go after the dealer' scenario puts an immunized Lance in front of the GJ where he must either tell the truth or perjure himself. He'd be in exactly the same position as Tyler and George. To me, that's poetically fair.

If Lance is actually the target of a doping investigation or a fraud investigation predicated on doping, he's not getting any immunity and he's taking the 5th. For a "conclusive" doping resolution, you'll have to hope that Floyd's lawsuit goes to trial (and it won't because Lance will pay rather than endure a damaging trial), or that the feds can come up with a criminal case strategy that avoids their huge statute of limitations problems, or that the feds are using all this money to prosecute a dope user. Good luck with that.

 

[patricknd]

The people who watch 60 Minutes have never heard of, and couldn't care less about, Rock Racing or Michael Ball or Leogrande or Riis or CSC or Phonak. They've heard of Armstrong, so I'm not surprised that he was the primary focus.

But as a cycling fan, I was a bit disappointed that so much of the focus was on Armstrong and not more on doping in cycling in general, and I got the feeling that Tyler wanted to talk about doping in a broader context and not just about Armstrong, but Pelley kept bringing it back to Armstrong. I'd like to have heard more about Hamilton's personal history of doping.

the fact is that if you take armstrong out of it there isn't a 60 minutes story at all, it's just sissies in black shorts, not "real sports". even with armstrong, coverage here is pretty pathetic, but replace his name with peyton manning and you'd see nothing else on the news. i think it's going to take criminal charges before the populace really takes notice.

 

[VeloCity]

the fact is that if you take armstrong out of it there isn't a 60 minutes story at all, it's just sissies in black shorts, not "real sports". even with armstrong, coverage here is pretty pathetic, but replace his name with peyton manning and you'd see nothing else on the news. i think it's going to take criminal charges before the populace really takes notice.

Yeah, I understand why the focus was on Armstrong, just from a purely cycling fan perspective I would've liked to hear more about Hamilton himself at least (and Andreu too), the progression of doping at Postal over the years, what went on at CSC and Phonak, etc.

 

[skippythepinhead]

Seems like all the Lanceboys wanted 60 minutes to provide all the information they're going to have to purchase Tyler's book to get.

 

[patricknd]

Yeah, I understand why the focus was on Armstrong, just from a purely cycling fan perspective I would've liked to hear more about Hamilton himself at least (and Andreu too), the progression of doping at Postal over the years, what went on at CSC and Phonak, etc.

funny you say that, i was actually surprised that the part with andreu was as long as it was, with talk about the speeds going up etc. i'd have figured that would end up cut to make room for juicier revelations.

 

[D-Queued]

...

The big problem for Armstrong is that the liars are cross-corroborating each other and there is supporting documentary evidence.

The secret telephone system is very interesting. If Lance used the same phone to talk to his doping teammates that he used to telephone his dealer . . . the feds can use pen register data to discover the network of doping-associated phone calls.

...

Interesting point. And, people used to get charged with wire fraud for that:

Wire fraud, in the United States Code, is any criminally fraudulent activity that has been determined to have involved electronic communications of any kind, at any phase of the event

Haven't seen that on the list yet, looks like it should be added.

Dave.

 

[MarkvW]

Interesting point. And, people used to get charged with wire fraud for that:

Wire fraud, in the United States Code, is any criminally fraudulent activity that has been determined to have involved electronic communications of any kind, at any phase of the event

Haven't seen that on the list yet, looks like it should be added.

Dave.

I think wire fraud aptly describes a lot of the conduct with USPS. The statute of limitations bars charges based on that statute for the old USPS conduct.

 

[D-Queued]

I think wire fraud aptly describes a lot of the conduct with USPS. The statute of limitations bars charges based on that statute for the old USPS conduct.

Not being a legal beagle, I am intrigued by the possibility of waving statute when the pattern has extended to more recent times when the offense was first detected.

My guess is that Lance et co have still been using their cell phones to arrange for 'drops'.

Dave.

 

[cat6cx]

If Lance is not the central figure in the Gov investigation, as some have suggested, why has he not gone before the GJ yet?

It seems to me that if the Gov was trying to get the dealers, and not focusing on LA, he would be a key witness for the GJ.

What am I missing here? I think Lance is the central figure, or one of the central figures in the investigation.

 

[Barrus]

If Lance is not the central figure in the Gov investigation, as some have suggested, why has he not gone before the GJ yet?

It seems to me that if the Gov was trying to get the dealers, and not focusing on LA, he would be a key witness for the GJ.

What am I missing here? I think Lance is the central figure, or one of the central figures in the investigation.

It can also happen that the GJ proceedings are just in order to get an indictment on Armstrong, solely to use this as leverage to turn Armstrong on those that are above him

 

[Benotti69]

It can also happen that the GJ proceedings are just in order to get an indictment on Armstrong, solely to use this as leverage to turn Armstrong on those that are above him

That is how i read it and if he doesn't he is still a big catch.

 

[VeloCity]

If Lance is not the central figure in the Gov investigation, as some have suggested, why has he not gone before the GJ yet?

It seems to me that if the Gov was trying to get the dealers, and not focusing on LA, he would be a key witness for the GJ.

What am I missing here? I think Lance is the central figure, or one of the central figures in the investigation.

I think because the Feds knew that it was going to take a LOT of pressure before Armstrong would spill. So start with the Landis' and Hamilton's and Hincapie's and slowly ratchet up the pressure on Armstrong until he's backed into a corner, then offer him a way out via plea bargain/immunity whatever. A stick-and-then-carrot approach if you will.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Strickland Bromance Update

CBS stretched their Armstrong story by adding an interview with Bill Strickland.

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7367031n&tag=mncol;lst;7

The man crush is creepy.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

I think because the Feds knew that it was going to take a LOT of pressure before Armstrong would spill. So start with the Landis' and Hamilton's and Hincapie's and slowly ratchet up the pressure on Armstrong until he's backed into a corner, then offer him a way out via plea bargain/immunity whatever. A stick-and-then-carrot approach if you will.

I agree with your points. It seems they have been working a clear plan of pressure since last year when Floyd made is info public.

BTW up thread you were called a fan boy ...post #1771 LMAO at that! I know your posting history elswhere and that would be the exact oposite for you. HAHA

 

[DirtyWorks]

If Lance is not the central figure in the Gov investigation, as some have suggested, why has he not gone before the GJ yet?

It seems to me that if the Gov was trying to get the dealers, and not focusing on LA, he would be a key witness for the GJ.

What am I missing here? I think Lance is the central figure, or one of the central figures in the investigation.

Wonderboy and other targets like him are generally last, if they ever appear in front of the grand jury. At that point, Wonderboy will need to be 100% truthful or the perjury charges fly. That would be very challenging for a personality like his. If they don't call him, he gets to see all the evidence at the end of the investigation. He has some options at that point.

 

[VeloCity]

BTW up thread you were called a fan boy ...post #1771 LMAO at that! I know your posting history elswhere and that would be the exact oposite for you. HAHA

Yeah I saw that - clearly not an ex-DPF'er

 

[woodburn]

CBS stretched their Armstrong story by adding an interview with Bill Strickland.

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7367031n&tag=mncol;lst;7

The man crush is creepy.

On "The Early Show" Monday, Bill Strickland, editor at large of Bicycling magazine, said he has evidence that Armstrong had used drugs.

He told co-anchor Chris Wragge, "I wrote a story in May for Bicycling ... that said I thought he was guilty, I knew he had doped. In the course of investigating around him, I finally found the conviction. So I've known for awhile. This is just inevitable, I think."

Strickland, who had unique access to Armstrong's circle for Armstrong's 2009 comeback tour, said he was told by Armstrong himself point-blank that he didn't use performance-enhancing substances.

"He looked me in the eyes and said, 'I'm looking you in the eyes and telling you no.' We were on a bike ride. Very powerful when he looks directly at you and he says that."

"And you believed him?" Wragge asked.

Strickland said, "I did."

--

Wonder what the "evidence" is and why he won't say what it is.

 

[webvan]

Ah, so what is that "evidence" he failed to disclose in his article?

 

[thehog]

This quote I don't understand:

Speaking on Monday to Sports Radio, Fabiani accused Hamilton of lying in order to get a book deal. "He has scammed 60 Minutes," said Fabiani.

Asked whether Armstrong would ever admit to using "steroids" [sic], Fabiani added: "I can't see into the future but I cannot imagine him doing that. He has said it over and over again. I have staked out my position on this, I have told the truth, there is nothing else I can say, and my position will never change … he's got the test results to back it up. He's got almost 500 tests over 20 years and never failed a single one."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011/may/23/uci-tyler-hamilton-lance-armstrong-drugs

- maybe Armstrong had Fabani duped? Surely he's told him he did dope?

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

This quote I don't understand:

Speaking on Monday to Sports Radio, Fabiani accused Hamilton of lying in order to get a book deal. "He has scammed 60 Minutes," said Fabiani.

Asked whether Armstrong would ever admit to using "steroids" [sic], Fabiani added: "I can't see into the future but I cannot imagine him doing that. He has said it over and over again. I have staked out my position on this, I have told the truth, there is nothing else I can say, and my position will never change … he's got the test results to back it up. He's got almost 500 tests over 20 years and never failed a single one."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011/may/23/uci-tyler-hamilton-lance-armstrong-drugs

- maybe Armstrong had Fabani duped? Surely he's told him he did dope?

... talk about a lawyer who doesn´t trust his clients words. Wow

 

[Elagabalus]

He said another rider (ex-uspostal maybe) told him he saw LA using PED's. A person that BS trusted to tell the truth. GH, TH somebody else?

Edit: on another note BS also related a story told to him about LA yelling at someone on the team with a needle stuck in his arm. Or something like that.

here I found it:

"The public controversies were dwarfed by a flow of off-the-record stories in first- and second- and third-hand from racers and others who were incredulous that I refused to publicly accuse Armstrong of doping, yet who would tell me something only on the condition that it had never happened. There was the story that never happened about Armstrong, an EPO syringe sticking out of his shoulder, taunting a teammate. There was the story that never happened about Armstrong being interrupted while doping and asking the interloping teammate if he was “a mouse or a man.” There was the time in a bar in Europe when I got into a long, heated
argument about my refusal to label Armstrong a doper and in front of at least 10 people one of the most vociferous shouted, “But I’m friends with someone who delivered doping products to him!” When I later, in private, requested to meet the shouted-about friend to put such a delivery on the record, there came only silence."