Official Lance Armstrong Thread **READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING**

[Alpe d'Huez]

I have merged the "What Charges Could LA Face" thread with this one.

 

[MarkvW]

Just curious.

I know this subject has been mentioned, but I was wondering what you all think Novisky is going to end up charging LAand company with, and what the likely charges will be for him if convicted???

The easy answer to your question focuses on the word "likely." The facts available to us do not support any likely charge. The facts unknown to us could support a wide array of possible charges.

USPS doping and doping/fraud charges appear to be off the table because of the statute of limitations. I haven't seen any good argument why they should still be on the table (only conclusory statements here). There might still be room for charging fraud based on doping, depending on how the USPS/Tailwind contract reads, but I haven't seen the contract in the public domain yet.

 

[rata de sentina]

Article in the Sydney Morning Herald today takes a pretty hard line on LA.

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cycling...n-armstrong-20110525-1f4b2.html#ixzz1NQmMruFx

The author must have been channelling TFF.

"Now, in the face of mounting evidence, it is the shrill, sometimes illogical attempts to defend him that smack of desperation."

"Armstrong inspires slavish devotion"

and directed at the UCI:

"Did cycling have too much invested in Armstrong's success to expose him as a cheat?"

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Interesting that the Lance defense have chosen to smear Hamilton and Landis, knowing that a number of other riders have either voluntarily chosen to talk to the grand jury (VandeVelde, Zabriskie, Vaughters) or have been subpoenaed (Hincapie, Leipheimer, others?).

My thought is that these guys aren't going to lie for Lance. We will see what their testimony reveals.

 

[Benotti69]

Interesting that the Lance defense have chosen to smear Hamilton and Landis, knowing that a number of other riders have either voluntarily chosen to talk to the grand jury (VandeVelde, Zabriskie, Vaughters) or have been subpoenaed (Hincapie, Leipheimer, others?).

My thought is that these guys aren't going to lie for Lance. We will see what their testimony reveals.

and what will Lance's defense try and smear CVV, DZ, JV, GH, LL and others with?

It is looking more and more desperate for Armstrong as it appears no one has been willing to lie for him. Shows what an inspirational kind of leader he is/was

 

[Cimacoppi49]

Too much smoke for there to have been no fire. Houston Chronicle
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/editorial/7581635.html

 

[Cimacoppi49]

The question now is when will Armstrong, Weisel, Och, Johnson, Stapleton and the other targets be called before the grand jury to testify. Usually the targets are called near the very end of the process. July, if they haven't already been called?

 

[Barrus]

Anyone heard anything about a 2002 positive at the Dauphine, with courtesy of RR and l'equipe

It was in yesterdays l'equipe

My French is terrible so I can't really understand what is written there, is there anyone who could give me the general idea of the article?

 

[sniper]

Anyone heard anything about a 2002 positive at the Dauphine, with courtesy of RR and l'equipe

It was in yesterdays l'equipe

My French is terrible so I can't really understand what is written there, is there anyone who could give me the general idea of the article?

One thing is that it wasn't really a positive, but another EPO-suspicious sample swept under the carpet.

I believe they got the info from some lab-insider, but am not sure.

anybody else?

 

[DJ Sprtsch]

An online translation here. If I understand it correctly, the UCI requested the lab to explain to Lance & Hog how the new EPO test worked. Consequently Lance most probably still used the old method in 2002.

 

[tofino]

Advertising folks viewpoint-Livestrong damage

http://adage.com/article/news/livestrong-s-challenge-surviving-lance-armstrong-backlash/227749/

Interesting views.

 

[Race Radio]

Two more lawyers added to the team
http://www.sacbee.com/2011/05/26/3656261/armstrong-adds-to-legal-team.html

Keker, Peters, Fabiani, Herman, Luskin, Daily....that is some serious expensive firepower for a case that is supposedly stalled and going nowhere.

 

[thirteen]

Two more lawyers added to the team
http://www.sacbee.com/2011/05/26/3656261/armstrong-adds-to-legal-team.html

Keker, Peters, Fabiani, Herman, Luskin, Daily....that is some serious expensive firepower for a case that is supposedly stalled and going nowhere.

ouch!

guess it's finally dawning on him that this needs more than mere PR

 

[Merckx index]

Two more lawyers added to the team
http://www.sacbee.com/2011/05/26/3656261/armstrong-adds-to-legal-team.html

Keker, Peters, Fabiani, Herman, Luskin, Daily....that is some serious expensive firepower for a case that is supposedly stalled and going nowhere.

From the article:

John Keker and Elliot Peters of San Francisco represented Major League Baseball players as they won a key appeals court case two years ago in which a panel of federal judges ruled that agents had no right to seize baseball's anonymous drug-testing results from 2003.

Guess LA and his team feel the '99 samples are pretty important. No doubt these new lawyers will also be trying to squelch any information from the 2001 TdS.

 

[DirtyWorks]

An online translation here. If I understand it correctly, the UCI requested the lab to explain to Lance & Hog how the new EPO test worked. Consequently Lance most probably still used the old method in 2002.

The article is claiming a source for another "grazing the limit" test result at the 2002 Dauphine Libere. Off the top of my head, that's a new development.

I've lost track of the sheer number of limits reached, but never breached test results. I vaguely recall a DS wrote a book and mentioned the UCI sent him a letter suggesting an American rider on his team 'take a vacation' for a similar test situation. Names escape me though.

 

[Cloxxki]

How expensive would it be for Lance if it was considered proven that he lied in the SCA case? Yes, millions to be paid back plus extra additionals, but would the lie itself have consequences for his freedom, seperate from all the fraud charges awaiting him?

 

[DirtyWorks]

Guess LA and his team feel the '99 samples are pretty important. No doubt these new lawyers will also be trying to squelch any information from the 2001 TdS.

We also know it's full steam ahead on maintaining the fraud. Doesn't look like a plea deal will happen. My wild guess at this point is they are banking on a Bonds trial outcome. It might work.

When does the Lance Fairness Fund kick off? I know employees at a certain .org, Nike and Oakley will kick in some money.

 

[Cimacoppi49]

Two more lawyers added to the team
http://www.sacbee.com/2011/05/26/3656261/armstrong-adds-to-legal-team.html

Keker, Peters, Fabiani, Herman, Luskin, Daily....that is some serious expensive firepower for a case that is supposedly stalled and going nowhere.

He's clearly very worried about the Euro lab specimens coming into to evidence. He's shooting impotent blanks and has no other option but to go after Novitsky. Sadly, for Gunderson, the case against him is far more extensive that blood and unine samples obtained by the Feds from Europe. Anyway, Gunderson has no 4th Amendment privacy rights as to those samples--so attack Novitsky instead is the only way to go. Gunderson is getting very desperate. I'll wager he's gotten a target letter and a subpoena to the Grand Jury and indictments are coming soon.

 

[VeloCity]

I've lost track of the sheer number of limits reached, but never breached test results. I vaguely recall a DS wrote a book and mentioned the UCI sent him a letter suggesting an American rider on his team 'take a vacation' for a similar test situation. Names escape me though.

I know Hamilton got a warning letter from the UCI right around Liege one year, while he was at Phonak (same year he was busted at the Vuelta, iirc). Then there was also Leipheimer when he was at Gerolsteiner:

http://velonews.competitor.com/2010...evels-doping-charge-against-leipheimer_133494

 

[DirtyWorks]

How expensive would it be for Lance if it was considered proven that he lied in the SCA case? Yes, millions to be paid back plus extra additionals, but would the lie itself have consequences for his freedom, seperate from all the fraud charges awaiting him?

We've got the SCA case, ideally Murdoch's organization is going to lodge a complaint in the courts, there have to be others Team Armstrong scammed. But, the way that civil trials would play out is that Wonderboy would make it appear to the courts that he is worth very little and get the damages whittled down to pennies on the dollar. On top of that, settle out of court so nothing comes to light.

 

[COMO CYCO]

A Few Good Cyclists

Speaking of Wonderboy taking the stand, I thought a few of you might find this potential scenario entertaining...

Novitzky: Johan Bruyneel was clear on what you wanted?
Armstrong: Crystal.
Novitzky: Any chance Johan Bruyneel ignored the order?
Armstrong: (Left eyebrow lifted to indicate astonishment) Ignored the order?
Novitzky: Any chance he... forgot about it?
Armstrong: (Confidently) No.
Novitzky: Any chance Johan Bruyneel left your hotel room and said "Lance is wrong?"
Armstrong: (Flatly) No.
Novitzky: When Johan Bruyneel spoke to the Team, and ordered them not to use PED’s, any chance they ignored him?
Armstrong: You ever raced with a world class cycling team, son?
Novitzky: No, sir.
Armstrong: Ever competed in a grand tour?
Novitzky: No, sir.
Armstrong: Ever put your career in another man's hands; ask him to put his career in yours?
Novitzky: No, sir.
Armstrong: We follow orders, son. We follow orders or the team loses sponsorship dollars, I lose sponsorship dollars. It's that simple. Are we clear?
Novitzky: Yes, sir.
Armstrong: Are we clear?
Novitzky: Crystal; sir I just have one more question before I call Tyler Hamilton and Floyd Landis....If you gave an order, that the USPS Cycling Team stay clean, and your orders are always followed, then why would Dr. Ferrari's services be needed? Why would it be necessary to keep his number on speed dial?
Armstrong: (Reciting) Some of the domestiques were sub-standard riders, he was being contacted beca...
Novitzky: (interrupting) That is NOT what you said! You said your relationship with him was severed because you have a public image to uphold.
Armstrong: That's correct-
Novitzky: You said "image", I said 'public image?' You said "is there any other kind?"
Armstrong: I know what I said.
Novitzky: I can have the court reporter give back to you-
Armstrong: I know what I said! I don't need to have it read back to me like I'm some kind of-
Novitzky: Then why the two orders? Lance?
Armstrong: (Awkwardly) Sometimes riders take matters into their own hands...
Novitzky: No, sir. You made it clear just a moment ago that your domestiques never take matters into their own hands; your men follow orders or sponsorship dollars are lost. So Dr. Ferrari shouldn't have been on any contact lists at all, should he have, Lance?
Armstrong: You snotty little *******.
Fabiani: Your Honor, I would like to ask for a recess.
Novitzky: I'd like an answer to the question judge.
Judge: The court will wait for an answer.
Novitzky: If Johan Bruyneel gave an order that illegal performance enhancement techniques weren't to be tolerated, then why did Dr. Ferrari have to be consulted? Lance? Johan Bruyneel ordered the blood transfusions, didn't he, because that's what you told Johan Bruyneel to do.
Fabiani: Object!
Novitzky: And when it started to look bad...
Judge: [interrupting] That'll be all councilor.
Novitzky: [finishing] ...you told the guys to deny everything!
Fabiani: [interrupting] Your Honor!
Judge: [interrupting] Councilor, I'll hold you in contempt!
Novitzky: You bribed WADA with inappropriate donations!
Fabiani: [interrupting] Your Honor!
Novitzky: ...and you doctored the test from the 2001 Tour de Swisse!
Fabiani: Damn it, Novitzky!
Novitzky: And now I'm asking you!
Judge: Consider yourself in contempt!
Novitzky: Lance Armstrong, did you order the blood transfusions?!
Judge: You don't have to answer that question!
Armstrong: I'll answer the question. You want answers?
Novitzky: I think I'm entitled.
Armstrong: You want answers?!
Novitzky: I want the truth!
Armstrong: You can't handle the truth! Son, we live in a world that has bicycles, and those bicycles have to be raced by men in lycra. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Frankie Andreu? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom! You weep for Tyler and you curse Floyd. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that PED use, while tragic, wins races. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, wins Tours! You don't want the truth, because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that bike! You need me on that bike!! We use phrases like "most tested athlete", "never tested positive", "where's the proof". We use these phrases as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line! I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a public who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very inspiration that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it! I would rather you just said "Thank you," and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a bicycle, and go win a f**kin’ Tour de France! Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to!
Novitzky: Did you order the transfusions?
Armstrong: I did the job that—-
Novitzky: Did you order the transfusions?!
Armstrong: You're goddamn right I did!!
Bailiff: Lance Armstrong, you have the right to remain silent. Any statement you make-
Armstrong: I'm being charged with a crime? Is that what this is? I'm being charged with a crime? This is funny, that's what this is. This is... [tries to lunge at Novitzky but is stopped by Bailiff's] I'm gonna rip out your eyes and **** in your dead skull! You f**ked with the wrong cyclist!!
Bailiff: Lance Armstrong! Do you understand your rights as I have just read them to you?
Armstrong: You f**kin' people. You have no idea how to win a Tour. All you did was weaken the sport today, Novitzky. That's all you did. You put Europe's 2nd biggest past-time in danger. Sweet dreams, son.
Novitzky: Don't call me "son". I'm a Federal Investigator AND a recreational cyclist. And you're under arrest, you son of a *****. The witness is excused.

Found here:
http://stlbiking.com/forum/index.ph...-from-a-secret-novitzky-armstrong-deposition/

 

[python]

i have pointed out several times before - a potential for novi and usada to go after the texas samples stored in the usa...a much easier task than reaching out across the ocean.

the new choice of lawyers may indicate THAT rather than the 1999/2001 samples...as important as they are.

 

[just some guy]

The article is claiming a source for another "grazing the limit" test result at the 2002 Dauphine Libere. Off the top of my head, that's a new development.

I've lost track of the sheer number of limits reached, but never breached test results. I vaguely recall a DS wrote a book and mentioned the UCI sent him a letter suggesting an American rider on his team 'take a vacation' for a similar test situation. Names escape me though.

Levi at Gerostinor - or how every its spelt.

 

[Cloxxki]

We've got the SCA case, ideally Murdoch's organization is going to lodge a complaint in the courts, there have to be others Team Armstrong scammed. But, the way that civil trials would play out is that Wonderboy would make it appear to the courts that he is worth very little and get the damages whittled down to pennies on the dollar. On top of that, settle out of court so nothing comes to light.

Thanks.
So the lie itself under oath in that case won't have in risk jail? Way to promote telling the truth...

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

He's clearly very worried about the Euro lab specimens coming into to evidence. He's shooting impotent blanks and has no other option but to go after Novitsky. Sadly, for Gunderson, the case against him is far more extensive that blood and unine samples obtained by the Feds from Europe. Anyway, Gunderson has no 4th Amendment privacy rights as to those samples--so attack Novitsky instead is the only way to go. Gunderson is getting very desperate. I'll wager he's gotten a target letter and a subpoena to the Grand Jury and indictments are coming soon.

Won't matter if he gets the letter. He can plead the 5th, which won't look good, certainly, but it will keep him from testifying.

I think indictments may be coming soon. A lot of riders have testified.

So far, no sign from the "hundreds" of riders who support Armstrong that Fabiani mentioned. Other than Popo and Ekimov, of course.