Official Lance Armstrong Thread **READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING**

[Ferminal]

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http://www.scribd.com/doc/31833754/Lance-Armstrong-Testimony]

Yes, old news. 2005, on the record. Lance paid big Bucks.
Hundreds and Hundreds of Thousands of USD.
Maybe a Million or more paid to the good doctor.

Why would you cite something and not actually read it?

No where does he say that he paid "Hundreds and hundreds of thousands". In fact, Lance doesn't know much about it - so it's hard to infer anything from these lines.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Polish, please... Get back to the funny...

This is getting obvious, and sad. Lighten my heart, my little unicorn. Where are the rainbows?

You need to engage your lazer-like focus on being humorous, which you can pull off quite well; and less on the appologist angle. The race is over...

Revel in your excellence!

 

[Velodude]

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http://www.scribd.com/doc/31833754/Lance-Armstrong-Testimony]

Yes, old news. 2005, on the record. Lance paid big Bucks.
Hundreds and Hundreds of Thousands of USD.
Maybe a Million or more paid to the good doctor.
BTW, I assumed you knew this. Sorry.
I should not assume.
Made an *** out of u and me

But anyway, as you know, Dr Ferrari is World Class.
Knows his stuff. Very high fees for some.
Bags of Cash, Check, or Charge.
Does not matter the method of payment.
All are legal.

That said, the article in the prestigious and reputable Corriere did not mention the time frame of payments from Lance to the Ferrari Family.

We can only assume Lance continued to make payments after the 2005 SCA win.

The Corrieremust have new news.
Can not imagine they would rehash SSDD.

Very dishonest, Polish. Armstrong testified nothing of the sort.

The questions were put to him about the compensation paid to Ferrari in your quoted source of pages 110-111 from the SCA transcript:

Q: Do you know the total amount of compensation that you have paid to Doctor Ferrari since you have been visiting him as a trainer, approximately?

A: No

Q: Do you think it is in excess of a million dollars?

A: I don't think so.

Q: It is -- certainly, it is in the range of six figures, isn't it?

A: Over the years, perhaps. But I don't recall.

He denies it is over a million but perhaps could be six figures over the years. Not hundreds of thousands as 100,000 is the lower of the six figures.

Go to the naughty corner, Polish.

 

[AngusW]

actually it was reported in the french cycling mag "Velo" back in early 2000s that an american rider who was struggling had approached armstrong about how to get in touch with ferrari. armstrong told him that he could direct him how to get in touch with ferrari but that it would be pointless because armstrong now had an exclusive contract with ferrari. It was reported at the time that that exclusive contract cost $800,000.

no other cyclist was famous for coming back from cancer -- so no one else could afford such fees. a smart way to kill two birds with one stone. no competition enjoying the doping expertise of the italian hematologist, and fewer people to keep quiet about the greatest fraud in sports history.

side-note: notice how gotti and axel merckx's perfs dropped off substantially around that time -- both, previously, clients of ferrari. gotti was really never heard from afterwards other than the report that his parents RV was found to be stashed with drugs. a double giro winner to boot.

I can't imagine Julich approaching Armstrong for assistance at that time as they would have been rivals, although Julich was definitely struggling as GT rider in the early 2000s. Maybe it was Leipheimer wanting to move up from his 8th placing in the Tour in 2002? Other possibilities are Vande Velde or Hamilton?

 

[thehog]

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[Polish]

You guys crack me up.

Being dense on purpose?
Maybe not yikes.

Lance CLEARLY says he spent hundreds and hundreds of thousands of USD.
Maybe a million or more.
Maybe not a million.
Oh heck, who are we kidding - more than a million.
Pre 2005.
Old News.
SSDD SSDD

"Oh, but Lance only spent $99,999 so there"
*** edited by mod ***

 

[Anonymous]

You guys crack me up.

Being dense on purpose?
Maybe not yikes.

Lance CLEARLY says he spent hundreds and hundreds of thousands of USD.
Maybe a million or more.
Maybe not a million.
Oh heck, who are we kidding - more than a million.
Pre 2005.
Old News.
SSDD SSDD

"Oh, but Lance only spent $99,999 so there"
*** edited by mod ***

You need to learn to read. Yikes lol.

Lance clearly avoided the question of how much he paid.
Definitely disavowed a million.
Tried to leave doubt that it was six figures.
Definitely more than a million.
All that gear and dope costs serious scratch.
Ferrari is a genius at what he does.
If Lance never met him, he would have stayed a fat "classics" man who probably wouldn't have won too many classics lol.

NSND
Indictments a commin'
Looks like the Feds are following the money.
That never turns out well for the person under suspicion.
lol.

 

[fatandfast]

Polish I gotta say this is a strange turn for sir Lance. He goes on and on about livestrong and how much good it has done. In my mind there is no dispute that the organization has helped lots of people when they needed it most.

Then his family, he kept carrying all his kids from one exploded situation to the next. He carried his kids while he was doing the actress/model/musician phase of his life. I will give him the benefit of the doubt, family is important to him.

Then his career, national hero, maybe in more countries than just his own. National champion, olympian , world champion, classics master, multi tour winner, top step of every cycling history book.

What in the f-ck could a guy with his resources and overall everything to lose want with any relationship w Ferrari or any of his friends or offspring ? It can't be answered w any logic whatsoever. Even if Lance is not guilty of all the BS he is accused of he owes a big I'm sorry for the Ferrari love affair

 

[Cobblestoned]

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[MarkvW]

Polish I gotta say this is a strange turn for sir Lance. He goes on and on about livestrong and how much good it has done. In my mind there is no dispute that the organization has helped lots of people when they needed it most.

Then his family, he kept carrying all his kids from one exploded situation to the next. He carried his kids while he was doing the actress/model/musician phase of his life. I will give him the benefit of the doubt, family is important to him.

Then his career, national hero, maybe in more countries than just his own. National champion, olympian , world champion, classics master, multi tour winner, top step of every cycling history book.

What in the f-ck could a guy with his resources and overall everything to lose want with any relationship w Ferrari or any of his friends or offspring ? It can't be answered w any logic whatsoever. Even if Lance is not guilty of all the BS he is accused of he owes a big I'm sorry for the Ferrari love affair

Without Ferrari, would Lance be where he is now? Isn't Ferrari the keeper of the secrets that are most damaging to Lance? These are two good reasons for continued friendly relations between the two.

 

[Race Radio]

"I remember when we were on a training ride in 2002, Lance told me that Ferrari had been paranoid that he had helped cause the cancer and became more conservative after that,"

Word is Chris Carmichel is jealous because he wanted to claim credit for it

 

[Cobblestoned]

"I remember when we were on a training ride in 2002, Lance told me that Ferrari had been paranoid that he had helped cause the cancer and became more conservative after that,"

Word is Chris Carmichel is jealous because he wanted to claim credit for it

I knew this would come.
You work like a script in an endless loop.

This is of course the prove that F. caused LA's cancer. Oh man.
Works for you. Fact.
Like Lance flushed Floyd's bloodbag down the toilet, and all that other myths....
Good luck !

 

[Race Radio]

This is of course the prove that F. caused LA's cancer.

Multiple riders have described Ferrari's prescribing Cortisone, Testosterone, HGH, and EPO to his customers. Lance has tested positive, and even admitted using, all of these.


have you ever used any performance-enhancing drugs? And Lance said yes. And the doctor asked, what were they? And Lance said, growth hormone, cortisone, EPO, steroids and testosterone.

Any links to the drugs Ferrari gave Armstrong and Cancer? Yes, lots

HGH?
Suppression of human growth hormone may ward off cancer

Cortisone? Ask Greg Strock, Erich Kaiter and Ernie Lachuga

Studies have shown that there is an high prevalence of human parvovirus B19 (B19) DNA in the testes of patients with testicular germ cell tumours (85%)

EPO?
Eight clinical trials have suggested that Epogen and related anemia drugs, widely used to treat the anemia caused by cancer chemotherapy, might make tumors worse or hasten the death of cancer patients.

Steroids?Livestrong says Steroids taken orally or through injection also increase a man's risk for cancer

Testosterone? Even livestrong says there is an increase possiblity of cancer. Increases Prostate Cancer Risk

You are welcome to pretend there is no connection.....but as usual you would be wrong. Much of what Landis has said has been backed up by others. Give the multiple connections between doping and cancer is understandable that Ferrari would expressed concerns that the doping regime he prescribed at the least accelerated Armstrong's cancer.

 

[Polish]

Lance flushed Cancer down the Toilet.

F Cancer

 

[Cobblestoned]

Multiple riders have described Ferrari's prescribing Cortisone, Testosterone, HGH, and EPO to his customers. Lance has tested positive, and even admitted using, all of these.


have you ever used any performance-enhancing drugs? And Lance said yes. And the doctor asked, what were they? And Lance said, growth hormone, cortisone, EPO, steroids and testosterone.

Any links to the drugs Ferrari gave Armstrong and Cancer? Yes, lots

HGH?
Suppression of human growth hormone may ward off cancer

Cortisone? Ask Greg Strock, Erich Kaiter and Ernie Lachuga

Studies have shown that there is an high prevalence of human parvovirus B19 (B19) DNA in the testes of patients with testicular germ cell tumours (85%)

EPO?
Eight clinical trials have suggested that Epogen and related anemia drugs, widely used to treat the anemia caused by cancer chemotherapy, might make tumors worse or hasten the death of cancer patients.

Steroids?Livestrong says Steroids taken orally or through injection also increase a man's risk for cancer

Testosterone? Even livestrong says there is an increase possiblity of cancer. Increases Prostate Cancer Risk

You are welcome to pretend there is no connection.....but as usual you would be wrong. Much of what Landis has said has been backed up by others. Give the multiple connections between doping and cancer is understandable that Ferrari would expressed concerns that the doping regime he prescribed at the least accelerated Armstrong's cancer.

Wow, such an effort for such a......
Keeping all the myths strong and joining that dots so that it suits your world.
Yeah, thats the reason for the whole peloton beeing full of cancer for many years now. lol
Lance was the only rider doping and taking those substances. That is another possibility. Irizar too. Sorry. Nearly forgot.
Most of your conclusions and assumptions are constructed and from hearsay or out of the Andreu-bible.
Is is it just me, or are you now stepping back and saying " just accelerated" ?
Strange. Even when Ferrari ever stated something like this, the is still a long way to go from "accelerating" to "causing" or "giving", which was what thehog said in his deleted post.
(thank god it was deleted. thanks Susan)
You agree with thehog or not ?
Why do you defend that disgusting thehog when you have no prove to deliver that confirms his claim ?

Sometimes it's better to accept that disgusting is disgusting, and not defend this guy on every cost. Even better for a first class hater.

Beer also causes cancer. We heard it from RR himself. Will have a beer now. lol

 

[Cobblestoned]

Lance flushed Cancer down the Toilet.

F Cancer

You think he watched it circulating in the vortex, or did he just close the toilet-cover and go away ?
I think Lance insulted the cancer and called it names before he flushed it down.

It was the beer's fault anyway. Beer causes cancer.

 

[Merckx index]

Any links to the drugs Ferrari gave Armstrong and Cancer? Yes, lots

EPO?
Eight clinical trials have suggested that Epogen and related anemia drugs, widely used to treat the anemia caused by cancer chemotherapy, might make tumors worse or hasten the death of cancer patients.

The article you cited was written three and a half years ago. Since then, much more evidence that EPO may exacerbate certain cancers has accumulated. Particularly timely is this passage from Charles Pelkey’s latest post at Velo News. (He is undergoing chemotherapy):

Aside from hair-loss (which I beat to the punch with a new haircut), one of the common side-effects of chemo is that the patient suffers a decline in both red and white blood cell counts. Doctors would often prescribe EPO, Aranesp or the wonderfullly-named (at least in cycling circles) “ProCrit” to patients who suffer from chemo-induced anemia. Studies, however, have shown that patients receiving such “off label” doses of EPO and other erythropoiesis-stimulating agents are at high risk for stroke, heart attack and a return of the cancers the chemo is supposed to be fighting.

As a result, the FDA issued a so-called “black label warning,” which pretty much means that if a doctor does prescribe the drug and the patient suffers the predicted side-effect, the doctor risks a loss of his or her license and opens the door to some killer lawsuits. The alternative is for a patient suffering from severe chemo-induced anemia to receive transfusions. Yup, if it gets bad, I’ll be doing the old homologous blood-doping routine, but as of yet, it hasn’t been an issue. No matter what, I doubt I’ll be climbing l’Alpe d’Huez at a record-setting pace – or at all – any time soon.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2011...g-the-threshold-and-a-doping-explainer_193156

It remains to be seen if EPO use could cause a cancer to form and develop. There isn't much evidence for that, based on all the athletes who have taken EPO. But it's certainly reasonable to believe it could make a cancer resulting from other factors worse, and maybe even increase the chances of a relapse. In any case, any "trainers" in America who are prescribing EPO for their clients might be in real trouble if one of these athletes developed cancer. I can certainly see these data being used if the athlete decided to sue the doctor (yes, I know, the athlete in that situation would have no one to blame but himself; but in America, lawsuits are never constrained by that factor).

This also provides another answer to those people who claim that the investigation against LA is a waste of taxpayer's money. The drugs under consideration in these trafficking charges may not be simply used to cheat in sports, but possibly increase the risk of cancer. Regardless of how strong the argument actually is, I wouldn't be surprised to see it brought up in court if it comes to that point.

What in the f-ck could a guy with his resources and overall everything to lose want with any relationship w Ferrari or any of his friends or offspring ? It can't be answered w any logic whatsoever. Even if Lance is not guilty of all the BS he is accused of he owes a big I'm sorry for the Ferrari love affair

Indeed. The more I think about it, the more this EPO-cancer link could loom large. When LA returned to cycling in 1998, there was very little evidence for this link. But when he made his comeback in 2009, there was a lot of evidence, and since I assume he was then and is now continuing to have regular checkups with his original doctors, LA would surely know something about this connection. (His doctors would have to know that EPO is used by cyclists, and they would be remiss in their duty if they did not pass along to LA what they now knew about the connection of EPO with cancer). As would Ferrari.

So if the two of them were shown to be involved in an EPO ring, the consequences could extend well beyond performance enhancement violations. Not to mention how it would look that one of the most visible anti-cancer figures in the world was knowingly using a substance that might have put a recurrence of his own cancer at risk, as well as possibly increased the risk for other riders. This might be a better answer to anyone who takes the waste of money line.

LMG made a good point not long ago when he noted that blood transfusion is difficult to do without EPO. You need it to raise your HT quickly after a withdrawal, both to get back your strength and to avoid passport abnormalities. So even if blood transfusions have largely replaced EPO in recent years as the main avenue of raising HT, EPO is probably still widely used even by transfusers.

 

[Cimacoppi49]

This is funny. Polish is jamming you guys by belittling his relationship with Ferrari as old news, and states something obviously false as proof.

I point out he is lying, and that LA played down his payment amounts to Ferrari in SCA and thus basically jamming him back, but then you call me a Fabiani troll. Are you on crack?

You guys are clowns. OK, why don't you point out the page and line of the SCA deposition that supports Polish and thus proves me a Fabiani troll? Take your time.

Even the famous GT placing predictor pyth-on is jumping onto the confused short bus lol. I sure hope pyth-on remembers what happened last time somebody lied about the SCA deposition.....he had a meltdown and took a little vacation lol.

My bad. I was referring to replacing Polish with another person from Fabiani's Pit.

 

[Cimacoppi49]

The article you cited was written three and a half years ago. Since then, much more evidence that EPO may exacerbate certain cancers has accumulated. Particularly timely is this passage from Charles Pelkey’s latest post at Velo News. (He is undergoing chemotherapy):



http://velonews.competitor.com/2011...g-the-threshold-and-a-doping-explainer_193156


It remains to be seen if EPO use could cause a cancer to form and develop. There isn't much evidence for that, based on all the athletes who have taken EPO. But it's certainly reasonable to believe it could make a cancer resulting from other factors worse, and maybe even increase the chances of a relapse.

Thank you for the information and link. My thoughts are with Charles--a really great guy.

*** edited by mod ***

 

[Race Radio]

The article you cited was written three and a half years ago. Since then, much more evidence that EPO may exacerbate certain cancers has accumulated. Particularly timely is this passage from Charles Pelkey’s latest post at Velo News. (He is undergoing chemotherapy):



http://velonews.competitor.com/2011...g-the-threshold-and-a-doping-explainer_193156


It remains to be seen if EPO use could cause a cancer to form and develop. There isn't much evidence for that, based on all the athletes who have taken EPO. But it's certainly reasonable to believe it could make a cancer resulting from other factors worse, and maybe even increase the chances of a relapse.

Certainly a lot of evidence to support that EPO, and cellular multipliers like Test and HGH, would increase the speed and spread of cancer. Interesting to note that one of the key points of Armstrong's cancer was how fast it spread, even his doctors where shocked.

I can understand why Ferrari might feel a little guilty.

 

[Anonymous]

Beer causes cancer.

Nope. I'm proof.

 

[MarkvW]

Wow, such an effort for such a......
Keeping all the myths strong and joining that dots so that it suits your world.
Yeah, thats the reason for the whole peloton beeing full of cancer for many years now. lol
Lance was the only rider doping and taking those substances. That is another possibility. Irizar too. Sorry. Nearly forgot.
Most of your conclusions and assumptions are constructed and from hearsay or out of the Andreu-bible.
Is is it just me, or are you now stepping back and saying " just accelerated" ?
Strange. Even when Ferrari ever stated something like this, the is still a long way to go from "accelerating" to "causing" or "giving", which was what thehog said in his deleted post.
(thank god it was deleted. thanks Susan)
You agree with thehog or not ?
Why do you defend that disgusting thehog when you have no prove to deliver that confirms his claim ?

Sometimes it's better to accept that disgusting is disgusting, and not defend this guy on every cost. Even better for a first class hater.

Beer also causes cancer. We heard it from RR himself. Will have a beer now. lol

To dismiss the idea that doping caused Armstrong's cancer is erroneous. To assert that it was the cause is erroneous. No "evidence" (even in the loosest Maserati sense of the term) can be developed to persuasively establish either proposition. The doping might have caused or accelerated his cancer, or it might not have. None of this is controversial.

Is this simply another round of "Why you should love Lance vs. Why you should hate him"?

 

[amp300]

It was the beer's fault anyway. Michelob Ultra causes cancer.

fixed

(ten characters)

 

[Dr. Maserati]

To dismiss the idea that doping caused Armstrong's cancer is erroneous. To assert that it was the cause is erroneous. No "evidence" (even in the loosest Maserati sense of the term) can be developed to persuasively establish either proposition. The doping might have caused or accelerated his cancer, or it might not have. None of this is controversial.

Is this simply another round of "Why you should love Lance vs. Why you should hate him"?

You don't think that doping may have caused Armstrong cancer is "controversial"?

It appeared to upset Cobblestoned in to action.
The only reason Armstrong has any goodwill left at this stage is because of his 'cancer work', if it is shown that his own doping gave him cancer that will go to.

 

[MarkvW]

You don't think that doping may have caused Armstrong cancer is "controversial"?

It appeared to upset Cobblestoned in to action.
The only reason Armstrong has any goodwill left at this stage is because of his 'cancer work', if it is shown that his own doping gave him cancer that will go to.

If upsetting Cobblestoned "in to action" is the aim of the dialog, isn't it just trolling for a pavlovian response?

Obviously doping may have caused (or aggravated) Armstrong's cancer. I said that in my previous post. Just as obviously, it may not have caused (or aggravated) Armstrong's cancer.

The answer will forever be unknown. Time, physician-patient privilege, and ordinary medical uncertainty guarantee that there will never be a definitive answer to that question. Yet you want to debate it?