Official Lance Armstrong Thread **READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING**

[MacRoadie]

Im sorry, Lance cant be wrong on absolutely everything.

Whatever his agenda was, he was right on that.

As far as Armstrong being 'right on", I'll simply point you towards this:

Mark you this, Bassanio,
The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose.
An evil soul, producing holy witness,
Is like a villain with a smiling cheek,
A goodly apple rotten at the heart
O, what a goodly outside falsehood hath!

William Shakespeare
"The Merchant of Venice", Act I, Scene III

Plus, I'm not going to give him a great deal of credit, simply for parroting what many have already said before him.

 

[Race Radio]

Are you kidding?
Football has nothing to hide, because no one is looking for it.

There would be no story, because very few football fans care, or even understand, about doping.

In the late 90's most Professional cycling teams ran team sponsored and administered doping programs.

Do you think all EPL teams did the same? Really? There is certainly doping in Soccer, but it has not ingrained itself into the cultural of the sport like it has in cycling.

Regardless, it is pathetic when the best the sport can say is that some other sport sucks. The "Everyone was doing it" defense never worked with Mom.

 

[Polish]

The "Everyone was doing it" defense never worked with Mom.

But how about an evil step mom singling out a child unfairly?
Treating other daughters better?
Is that ok?

No it is not.
That defense does work. Walt knows.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Correct. There was video on the web which I can’t find anymore of whereby Beltran was nabbed by the AFLD in the 2008 Tour. The look on his face was one of sheer shock. He couldn’t actually believe he was about to be tested. He was obviously so used to riding and only being tested on “off” days or being forewarned of “surprise” tests that he couldn’t actually believe that he was being tested after a stage. He subsequently tested positive.

Number of tests and testing more than other sports means little. Circling back to Armstrong as this is where it all started is that he was more than happy to jump around the tests and implement a process of bribing and intimidation to not be tested. He has no right to point the finger at other sports when he was doing everything in his power to ensure the testing didn’t work.

Taking this one step further Armstrong was very active in sending letters to governing bodies (UCI/ASO/WADA) about other cyclists doping and was more than happy for “negative” publicy to occur from them being caught.

I think the statements made in the linked video were more about what was good for Armstrong not what is good for the sport.

Beltran - ya, he was trying out his CX skills.
http://www.tv2.no/play/sport/sykling/beltran-280286.html

 

[sherer]

Taking this one step further Armstrong was very active in sending letters to governing bodies (UCI/ASO/WADA) about other cyclists doping and was more than happy for “negative” publicy to occur from them being caught.

I think the statements made in the linked video were more about what was good for Armstrong not what is good for the sport.

And you can back up those claims can you ? you've seen these e-mails from LA to the UCI \ WADA etc ? Surely if LA was such a great insider for WADA why did Pound hate him so much ?

 

[thehog]

And you can back up those claims can you ? you've seen these e-mails from LA to the UCI \ WADA etc ? Surely if LA was such a great insider for WADA why did Pound hate him so much ?

Yes I can. Because Mr. Livestrong published them on the web!

Go fetch!

 

[Berzin]

And you can back up those claims can you?

These are not "claims".

Armstrong sent a communique to someone, maybe at the UCI (I don't recall the exact details) telling them something was going on in Spain.

I believe this was before the Operation Puerto scandal was exposed, but I'm not sure of the timeline.

So yes, The Hog is correct.

 

[MarkvW]

These are not "claims".

Armstrong sent a communique to someone, maybe at the UCI (I don't recall the exact details) telling them something was going on in Spain.

I believe this was before the Operation Puerto scandal was exposed.

So yes, The Hog is correct.

So Polish is correct? Is Lance really an antidoping crusader?

 

[sherer]

Yes I can. Because Mr. Livestrong published them on the web!

Go fetch!

if you mean the Floyd mails then he was the one who started mailing the UCI first and LA hardly mailed them with a list of rider x,y,z are the ones who are doping.

As for saying LA mailed pre Puerto i'd have to see the mails before you can claim that as true. it's never been mentioned on here before as far as I know

 

[thehog]

So Polish is correct? Is Lance really an antidoping crusader?

Polish is correct. Lance is anti-doping when it’s good for Lance’s image to do so – ie Catlin

and

Armstrong is anti-doping when it means having the UCI pressure Spanish riders like Mayo when Fuentes doping programs start to top out Ferrari programs.

Lance is not anti-doping when he is chasing down Simeoni and getting the bunch to spit on small-fry Italian cyclists.

Lance is not very anti-doping when he Fed-Ex’s EPO to newly joined riders of USPS.

Common theme? What’s good for Lance goes.

 

[thehog]

As for saying LA mailed pre Puerto i'd have to see the mails before you can claim that as true. it's never been mentioned on here before as far as I know

Do you really want me to make you look stupid?

 

[Polish]

So Polish is correct? Is Lance really an antidoping crusader?

Some riders break omerta to save themselves. Cut a deal.
Others break omerta out of vengance or bitterness.
Still others break omerta to "feel better" about themselves.

But the most admirable are those that break omerta WHILE RIDING to help the Sport. Very very few of those.
Kimmage. Armstrong. Who else?

And Armstrong was the PATRON when he broke the omerta.
Never has a Patron done that while riding.

 

[MarkvW]

Do you really want me to make you look stupid?

When will you make him look stupid? On Tuesday?

 

[Neworld]

Some riders (snip)

And Armstrong was the PATRON when he broke the omerta.
Never has a Patron done that while riding.

Fairly myopic of you Polish.

LA helped aim crosshairs at another 'camp', redirecting attention away from his sordid ways, while knowing that the UCI he bought off wasn't going to bother with him. Why didn't he tell the UCI where he kept his autologous blood? Why didn't he tell the UCI and WADA where to find the medical equipment and doctors that helped him dope? That would have been a revelation to the sport of cycling in the 'war' on dopeheads like Lance.

So, no he has not, and will never be, seen as helping curb doping in cycling; full stop. He systematically organized, colluded, distributed dope and used federal money to dope. He is no saviour or Patron. He is a liar.

NW

 

[Dr. Maserati]

When will you make him look stupid? On Tuesday?

Today is Tuesday.

Part of Armstrongs 2004 open letter to WADA ...

I've said it before and I will repeat it: I believe that I am the most tested athlete on this planet, I have never had a single positive doping test, and I do not take performance enhancing drugs.

"Every sport has doping problems. Cycling is certainly a sport that has had problems. But who can deny that we have cleaned it up?...The Tour de France is one of the most controlled sports events in the world."

 

[thehog]

Today is Tuesday.

Part of Armstrongs 2004 open letter to WADA ...

- yes somebody when ahead and released it! True they did.

I had no intention of releasing my letter to the media, but someone released it to the Los Angeles Times. Now that there has been media coverage I concluded that I should release the entire letter so all the people who have stood behind me in this ordeal will have a full understanding of my position. The independent investigator has concluded, correctly, that there should be full disclosure of all documents related to this matter and in that spirit I have decided to release my letter in its entirety.

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/jun06/armstrongstatement

 

[sherer]

the letter from LA to WADA is just a load of waffle. No names are named and he says WADA should have more proof before making claims.

This is hardly LA telling the governing bodies to raid a clinic in Spain because there is doping going on there.

So I will ask you again where are these so called tip off e-mails from LA to WADA, UCI etc that you claim he has made ?

I could send a e-mail to the IOC, WADA etc saying they are rubbish. it wouldn't mena I had tipped them off about doping though.

 

[MacRoadie]

So Polish is correct? Is Lance really an antidoping crusader?

See post # 9410

 

[Velodude]

the letter from LA to WADA is just a load of waffle. No names are named and he says WADA should have more proof before making claims.

This is hardly LA telling the governing bodies to raid a clinic in Spain because there is doping going on there.

So I will ask you again where are these so called tip off e-mails from LA to WADA, UCI etc that you claim he has made ?

I could send a e-mail to the IOC, WADA etc saying they are rubbish. it wouldn't mena I had tipped them off about doping though.

There was a communication before the Spanish OP investigation exposure (2006) from Armstrong to cycling authorities where he complained about other riders doping practices without providing specifics.

I cannot recalled the letter being reproduced on line but it was certainly subject to commentary (Cyclingnews?).

Rest assured it exists as Polish would not have made mention of the communication. Possibly Polish has an unpublished copy supplied by Armstrong legal PR Fabiani as ammunition for LA support.

 

[thehog]

There was a communication before the Spanish OP investigation exposure (2006) from Armstrong to cycling authorities where he complained about other riders doping practices without providing specifics.

I cannot recalled the letter being reproduced on line but it was certainly subject to commentary (Cyclingnews?).

Rest assured it exists as Polish would not have made mention of the communication. Possibly Polish has an unpublished copy supplied by Armstrong legal PR Fabiani as ammunition for LA support.

Its in the CyclingNews autobus site.... When I get a mo I'll dig it out... from memory the letter is from 2004 but let me get it out......

 

[MarkvW]

Fairly myopic of you Polish.

LA helped aim crosshairs at another 'camp', redirecting attention away from his sordid ways, while knowing that the UCI he bought off wasn't going to bother with him. Why didn't he tell the UCI where he kept his autologous blood? Why didn't he tell the UCI and WADA where to find the medical equipment and doctors that helped him dope? That would have been a revelation to the sport of cycling in the 'war' on dopeheads like Lance.

So, no he has not, and will never be, seen as helping curb doping in cycling; full stop. He systematically organized, colluded, distributed dope and used federal money to dope. He is no saviour or Patron. He is a liar.

NW

I look at it like pro cycling is a disease, and Lance as a vile symptom and waste product of that disease.

Others may think that pro cycling is a noble sport, infected by the disease of dope cheats. That's reasonable, I guess, but I can't go there. First, because the pro peloton is saturated with cheats; second, because the pro peloton has ALWAYS been saturated with cheats; and third, because the UCI management is, at best, suspect. For me, the better explanation is that pro cycling is itself the disease. That hypothesis explains the facts better--that Lance didn't hurt pro cycling, rather he was excreted from it.

Lance is a reprehensible dope cheat. In other words, he is a fair representative of the pro peloton.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I look at it like pro cycling is a disease, and Lance as a vile symptom and waste product of that disease.

Others may think that pro cycling is a noble sport, infected by the disease of dope cheats. That's reasonable, I guess, but I can't go there. First, because the pro peloton is saturated with cheats; second, because the pro peloton has ALWAYS been saturated with cheats; and third, because the UCI management is, at best, suspect. For me, the better explanation is that pro cycling is itself the disease. That hypothesis explains the facts better--that Lance didn't hurt pro cycling, rather he was excreted from it.

Lance is a reprehensible dope cheat. In other words, he is a fair representative of the pro peloton.

Ah - the "everyone does it" defense, that never gets old.

 

[Polish]

Herer is the link to the CN story of Lance Breaking the Omerta:
http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2004/jun04/jun08news2

On the eve of the second stage of the Dauphiné Libéré in France, US Postal Service spokesman Jörg Muller confirmed that Lance Armstrong did send an e-mail to the Tour de France, UCI, and WADA warning of a specific doping method, as described in former Tour adjunct director Daniel Baal's new book, released Tuesday.

Despite insinuations by the French newspaper Le Monde that Armstrong's concern over the possible use of synthetic haemoglobin (derived from bovine blood) in the peloton was directed at his Spanish rivals in particular, Baal and the team both insist that the message was one of general interest and not an attack by the American.

"I saw the e-mail with my own eyes and there was nothing mean-spirited in Armstrong's message," Baal said, quoted in Tuesday's l'Equipe. "He said it in his usual fashion: Do what you can to look into this product..."

US Postal added that "He never accused the Spanish. We're surprised that the information would come out like that, as it can only spark a fight between the riders."

 

[Race Radio]

The Armstrong letter was written after the Dauphine Libere in 2003. Mayo had been attacking him all race and it made wonderboy a little scared so he wrote a email to the UCI and ASO that some riders were using synthetic hemoglobin derived from cattle and they should focus their testing efforts. The inference at the time was he was referring to Spanish riders.

The email stayed quite for a year until it was discussed inn a book written by former French federation president and Tour de France assistant director Daniel Baal.

Kinda comical to have wonderboy complaining about other riders using experimental drugs

 

[Polish]

The Armstrong letter was written after the Dauphine Libere in 2003. Mayo had been attacking him all race and it made wonderboy a little scared so he wrote a email to the UCI and ASO that some riders were using synthetic hemoglobin derived from cattle and they should focus their testing efforts. The inference at the time was he was referring to Spanish riders.

The email stayed quite for a year until it was discussed inn a book written by former French federation president and Tour de France assistant director Daniel Baal.

Kinda comical to have wonderboy complaining about other riders using experimental drugs

But the FACT remains that Lance was breaking Omerta.
As a Patron of the Tour. Most Important spokesperson.
Raising the flag.

The Tours were getting cleaner. EPO usage amongst the GT Dangermen ended per Floyd's e-mail and the EPO test.
The era of simple blood transfusions was back in style. Not a PED.
But Lance raised the flag on the Bovine PED.
Broke Omerta way back in 2003.
Donated funds for a Sysmex Machine soon after.
The Tours were getting cleaner in 2003 2004 and 2005.
Backslid violently in 2006 and 2007 etc. Much dirtier.