Official Lance Armstrong thread

[dadoorsron]

How did he do that i am curious to your take?

That's easy he didn't follow team plans and went off on his own. That makes you look like an *** to Kloden, Levi, Popo, Zubeldia that are loyal to the team and team tactics. Levi, Kloden and Popo are very close to Armstrong. I think Contador will have alot of explaining to do today.

 

[Robert Merivel]

Ohhh fanboys have a new mantra: No one couldn't follow Contador, only Lance could but he just don't want to be a bad teammate !?! Hilarious !!!
And we talking about same Lance Armstrong a good teammate from stage No 3 who work like a maniac with Columbia crew against more than a half of his own Astana team !!!??

Stick to practicing "Zen." You might learn a thing or two.

Where do you "haters" come up with your logic? If some of you got some racing miles under your bibs you might get of glimpse of the real world of professional bike racing and how it works.

But "getting over your ego's" might be the best place for you all to start.

GO LANCE! GO ALBERTO! GO LEVI! GO CARLOS!

 

[Publicus]

Talking trash again, "white"boy. Dhat's sweet mawn.

If you don't think Lance couldn't have had the yellow jersey today, then your still out of the loop. He gave AC the opportunity and AC didn't have it today. Maybe tomorrow, ya say?

You are officially smoking crack. Lance didn't give AC anything. AC counter-attacked beautifully and the rest of the GC contenders were left watching him dance. As for who didn't have it, I say Lance and the rest of the contenders. Nothing stopped Evans or Schleck or Sastre from bridging up to Contador except Contador. I expect Lance to do his part tomorrow just like he would have expected Contador to do his. Contador should be in yellow after tomorrow and we can stop with this silly discussion of who should be team leader or how wrong it was for Contador to counter-attack.

 

[rolfrae]

Whichever Astana rider (assuming one of them does) gets into yellow first will have the advantage. Once in yellow it will be harder, in terms of team ethics, for other members of Astana to attack. Lance knew that if he was in yellow then it would look bad if Contador attacked him, and vice versa. Although, judging by the way he attacked today, I don't think Lance or anyone else in the peleton has it in them to successfully attack Contador on any climb.

 

[byu123]

How did he do that i am curious to your take?

Its pretty clear from the post stage interviews that the team plan for Astana was to ride tempo and burn as many people as possible off the back (i.e. Canchellera et. al). They had places 1 through 4 once Canchellara was dropped. The smart tactical thing would be to ride tempo and force others farther back to attack and then cover the attacks. That was the team plan for the stage. The plan was working to perfection and would have succeeded in its goals but Contador on his own decided to grab some glory for himself and take off.

Moreover, Armstrong who had gas in the tank to go harder at the end (i.e. he easily covered accelerations by A. Schleck and C. Evans once Contador went up the road). We don't know what would have happened in Armstrong would have tried to go with Contador because that would tactically been a stupid thing to do compounding Contador's stupid inexperienced decision making which we have seen twice now. Once in stage 3 when he was the one that caused the break and now when he goes for glory against the plan and tactical common sense.

Now Contador has succeeded in not only pi$$ing off the entire rest of the peloton (by causeing the break in stage 3) he has also pi$$ed of his own team who all see that the plan in place was working to perfection yet he bags the plan and goes for glory.

 

[dadoorsron]

You should spend some time reading Lance's comments pre-stage 1, post stage 1, post stage 3. It was clear he was chaffing at the idea of Alberto being declared the leader. We'll see how he handles things going forward, but I think he will continue to chaff at the notion of not having the entire team working for him. Which is understandable. He's a 7-time Tour winner who was always the unquestioned leader.

He has always stated that he will ride and work for the strongest rider. Which I beleive means if he got dropped on a climb he would work for contador or whoever, because he lost to much time to win. All his comments are close to politically correct as you can get them. Pre stage 7 Bruyneel stated it looks like they would have the yellow after the stage and lance would be in it. So he showed his hand for todays tactics. Contador wasn't mentioned in the interview at all. Bruyneel still states that there are many cards he can play for the tour winner. Contador by all speculation went on his own against team tactics.

 

[richwagmn]

That's easy he didn't follow team plans and went off on his own. That makes you look like an *** to Kloden, Levi, Popo, Zubeldia that are loyal to the team and team tactics. Levi, Kloden and Popo are very close to Armstrong. I think Contador will have alot of explaining to do today.

Are you serious? LA's been playing head games since he got back on Astana. LA truly thought he'd in yellow today and then he'd be declared team leader. Poor guy. Looks like he's gonna have to beat Contador straight up like a man. Boo hoo.

Can't wait to see LA try to drop AC. We'll see what a team player he is now.

 

[Publicus]

That's easy he didn't follow team plans and went off on his own. That makes you look like an *** to Kloden, Levi, Popo, Zubeldia that are loyal to the team and team tactics. Levi, Kloden and Popo are very close to Armstrong. I think Contador will have alot of explaining to do today.

What pray tell was the team plan? I don't recall seeing the Versus camera in the Astana bus this morning, so maybe it was Eurosport that had the view. Or you have a direct line to Bruyneel?

 

[dadoorsron]

Whichever Astana rider (assuming one of them does) gets into yellow first will have the advantage. Once in yellow it will be harder, in terms of team ethics, for other members of Astana to attack. Lance knew that if he was in yellow then it would look bad if Contador attacked him, and vice versa. Although, judging by the way he attacked today, I don't think Lance or anyone else in the peleton has it in them to successfully attack Contador on any climb.

Why is everyone saying Lance didn't attack. Why would a rider attack his own teammate? 21 seconds 1 k at 4.7 percent grade. Not that hard to do that for a professional.

 

[richwagmn]

Now Contador has succeeded in not only pi$$ing off the entire rest of the peloton (by causeing the break in stage 3) he has also pi$$ed of his own team who all see that the plan in place was working to perfection yet he bags the plan and goes for glory.

I'm sure the peloton is really ****ed at AC.

 

[dadoorsron]

What pray tell was the team plan? I don't recall seeing the Versus camera in the Astana bus this morning, so maybe it was Eurosport that had the view. Or you have a direct line to Bruyneel?

Comments made by bruyneel and certainly armstrong after the stage leads you to believe that team tactics where to ride together and not attack. bruyneel stated it's not astana problem to attack!

 

[Publicus]

Comments made by bruyneel and certainly armstrong after the stage leads you to believe that team tactics where to ride together and not attack. bruyneel stated it's not astana problem to attack!

LOL. Astana never attacked. I believe Evans attacked, then one his teammates, and the Contador counter-attacked. Who DIDN'T expect that to happen? Lance certainly thought it would. Here's his statement from yesterday:

.I know also that Alberto is ready to go. If he goes and nobody can hang with him, then I'll stay with the other leaders. That's the way it will be. But I'll try to show up tomorrow, try to do my best to get to the top as quick as I can. We'll see."

This is PRECISELY what happened. He went, no one could stay with him and all Lance could do is ride with the other leaders. I recall a lot of crowing about Lance taking advantage of a race situation on Stage 3 and how that was fair game and part of cycling. This was a race situation that happened on Contador's terrain and he took advantage of it. If Schleck and others could have bridged to him, they would have. They couldn't and Contador leap frogged Lance just the way Lance leapfrogged him on Stage 3.

Consistency folks.

 

[dadoorsron]

Are you serious? LA's been playing head games since he got back on Astana. LA truly thought he'd in yellow today and then he'd be declared team leader. Poor guy. Looks like he's gonna have to beat Contador straight up like a man. Boo hoo.

Can't wait to see LA try to drop AC. We'll see what a team player he is now.

Lance wearing yellow would make him the leader. However, If he gets dropped by attacks and can't hang on then you will have contador to sweep it up. very simple plan. Why would he attack his own teammate? The only way contador will get dropped is if he can't stay with the leaders.

 

[Azdak6]

Its pretty clear from the post stage interviews that the team plan for Astana was to ride tempo and burn as many people as possible off the back (i.e. Canchellera et. al). They had places 1 through 4 once Canchellara was dropped. The smart tactical thing would be to ride tempo and force others farther back to attack and then cover the attacks. That was the team plan for the stage. The plan was working to perfection and would have succeeded in its goals but Contador on his own decided to grab some glory for himself and take off.

Moreover, Armstrong who had gas in the tank to go harder at the end (i.e. he easily covered accelerations by A. Schleck and C. Evans once Contador went up the road). We don't know what would have happened in Armstrong would have tried to go with Contador because that would tactically been a stupid thing to do compounding Contador's stupid inexperienced decision making which we have seen twice now. Once in stage 3 when he was the one that caused the break and now when he goes for glory against the plan and tactical common sense.

Now Contador has succeeded in not only pi$$ing off the entire rest of the peloton (by causeing the break in stage 3) he has also pi$$ed of his own team who all see that the plan in place was working to perfection yet he bags the plan and goes for glory.

I don't see how taking off with a couple of kilometers is "bagging the plan", just as I think it is ridiculous for others to say that AC "burned a lot of matches today". All he did was stretch his legs a little.

I also don't see how AC "going for it" in this case hurts the team one bit. What would hurt the team would be to hold your strongest rider back in deference to a giant 37 yr old question mark (which I do not think is/was the Astana strategy either).

In a sense, Armstrong introduced this conflict by A) going to a team with an established GT winner and leader and B) inserting himself as a team leader based primarily on (distant) past performance rather than current abilities.

To me, that's fine--I am neither an Armstrong fanboy nor hater. If, within an overall team strategy for victory, they want to pick their spots like today and throw it down mano a mano on the road--that's OK with me.

The race should go to the strongest guy.

 

[Zen Master]

Stick to practicing "Zen." You might learn a thing or two.

Where do you "haters" come up with your logic? If some of you got some racing miles under your bibs you might get of glimpse of the real world of professional bike racing and how it works.

But "getting over your ego's" might be the best place for you all to start.

GO LANCE! GO ALBERTO! GO LEVI! GO CARLOS!

My logic came with decades of watching cycling races and decades of riding my bicycle. Sorry Bobby Muppet but IMHO cycling is the most beautiful sport on Earth and cycling doesn't start with Lance Armstrong.
I'm not a hater only a cycling fan, that's all...

 

[Publicus]

Its pretty clear from the post stage interviews that the team plan for Astana was to ride tempo and burn as many people as possible off the back (i.e. Canchellera et. al). They had places 1 through 4 once Canchellara was dropped. The smart tactical thing would be to ride tempo and force others farther back to attack and then cover the attacks. That was the team plan for the stage. The plan was working to perfection and would have succeeded in its goals but Contador on his own decided to grab some glory for himself and take off.

Moreover, Armstrong who had gas in the tank to go harder at the end (i.e. he easily covered accelerations by A. Schleck and C. Evans once Contador went up the road). We don't know what would have happened in Armstrong would have tried to go with Contador because that would tactically been a stupid thing to do compounding Contador's stupid inexperienced decision making which we have seen twice now. Once in stage 3 when he was the one that caused the break and now when he goes for glory against the plan and tactical common sense.

Now Contador has succeeded in not only pi$$ing off the entire rest of the peloton (by causeing the break in stage 3) he has also pi$$ed of his own team who all see that the plan in place was working to perfection yet he bags the plan and goes for glory.

When Evans attacked and Lance marked it, why didn't he just ride off? I think there is a mixture of sour grapes in your analysis. There was no plan to give the jersey to Lance (which is implied by your analysis). Contador went and no one could match him. Lance did what Contador would have had to do if Lance counterattacked Evans' initial attack (which would have been perfectly fine in my book if Lance had). Race situations are what they are. If you can get up to the front during the cross winds and pick up time, it's ok. If you counter-attack in the mountains, it is apparently a bad thing.

 

[dadoorsron]

LOL. Astana never attacked. I believe Evans attacked, then one his teammates, and the Contador counter-attacked. Who DIDN'T expect that to happen? Lance certainly thought it would. Here's his statement from yesterday:



This is PRECISELY what happened. He went, no one could stay with him and all Lance could do is ride with the other leaders. I recall a lot of crowing about Lance taking advantage of a race situation on Stage 3 and how that was fair game and part of cycling. This was a race situation that happened on Contador's terrain and he took advantage of it. If Schleck and others could have bridged to him, they would have. They couldn't and Contador leap frogged Lance just the way Lance leapfrogged him on Stage 3.

Consistency folks.

I never stated astana attacked. I stated why would astana attack there own teammate? Contadors attacked the group not a counter attack. He came from 4-5th spot in the lead group. Evans was already near the back after his very lame attempt. this is what happened.

COntador attacked, Astana did not ride after there own teammate. This is not t-moblie.

roll my eyes jesus christ!

 

[Chomsky]

That's easy he didn't follow team plans and went off on his own. That makes you look like an *** to Kloden, Levi, Popo, Zubeldia that are loyal to the team and team tactics. Levi, Kloden and Popo are very close to Armstrong. I think Contador will have alot of explaining to do today.

I don't think Contador cares if he burns any bridges as he does not plan on being on the team next year. What's Johan going to do if Contador does not listen, kick him off the team and out of the TDF? Of course not. He will take the win and work on putting his team together for next year.

Lance might be a lot stronger and better prepared next year but I doubt he will see a course more suited for him than this years course. JB would be wise to try to resolves any problems with Contador as he will likely win many more TDF's. But I can't see Contador and LA being on the same team next year. Likely JB would choose loyalty over winning next year and take LA over Contador.

 

[byu123]

LOL. Astana never attacked. I believe Evans attacked, then one his teammates, and the Contador counter-attacked. Who DIDN'T expect that to happen? Lance certainly thought it would. Here's his statement from yesterday:



This is PRECISELY what happened. He went, no one could stay with him and all Lance could do is ride with the other leaders. I recall a lot of crowing about Lance taking advantage of a race situation on Stage 3 and how that was fair game and part of cycling. This was a race situation that happened on Contador's terrain and he took advantage of it. If Schleck and others could have bridged to him, they would have. They couldn't and Contador leap frogged Lance just the way Lance leapfrogged him on Stage 3.

Consistency folks.

Yes. In both today's stage and stage 3 Contador showed his inexperience (ability not withstanding). You compare apples and oranges. In stage 3 Armstrong gained time because he was smart and Contador was stupid. In today's stage Contador gained time because he abandoned a team plan that was working to perfection and went for glory against all tactical common sense (they had places 1-4 once Spartacus was dropped). All they had to do was ride tempo and mark the attacks of GC contenders farther back. Your comparison is false. Contador looked like a strong a$$ today. We don't know if Armstrong could have covered the attack or not because that would be an asinine thing for him to do as a teammate right????? Yeah. Armstrong looks strong, smart, and a team player. Contador looks strong, stupid, and selfish.

 

[Publicus]

I never stated astana attacked. I stated why would astana attack there own teammate? Contadors attacked the group not a counter attack. He came from 4-5th spot in the lead group. Evans was already near the back after his very lame attempt. this is what happened.

COntador attacked, Astana did not ride after there own teammate. This is not t-moblie.

roll my eyes jesus christ!

So I guess you missed the Silence Lotto rider's attack that immediately preceded Contador's counter-attack? You know the guy he passed on the corner. I'm still trying to understand what it was that you think Contador was supposed to do? He counter-attacked Evans et al, if they could follow we wouldn't be having this conversation. They couldn't and so Contador went up the road. Perhaps you should direct your ire (and disappointment about Lance not being in yellow) at Saxo Bank, Silence Lotto and Cervelo Test Team since they couldn't do anything.

 

[dadoorsron]

When Evans attacked and Lance marked it, why didn't he just ride off? I think there is a mixture of sour grapes in your analysis. There was no plan to give the jersey to Lance (which is implied by your analysis). Contador went and no one could match him. Lance did what Contador would have had to do if Lance counterattacked Evans' initial attack (which would have been perfectly fine in my book if Lance had). Race situations are what they are. If you can get up to the front during the cross winds and pick up time, it's ok. If you counter-attack in the mountains, it is apparently a bad thing.

a counter attack means you ride up to someone and then attack or ride past the attacking rider. no one in front of you and evans already in the rear of the lead group contador attacked the group. Again why would lance counter his own teammate.

 

[Publicus]

Yes. In both today's stage and stage 3 Contador showed his inexperience (ability not withstanding). You compare apples and oranges. In stage 3 Armstrong gained time because he was smart and Contador was stupid. In today's stage Contador gained time because he abandoned a team plan that was working to perfection and went for glory against all tactical common sense (they had places 1-4 once Spartacus was dropped). All they had to do was ride tempo and mark the attacks of GC contenders farther back. Your comparison is false. Contador looked like a strong a$$ today. We don't know if Armstrong could have covered the attack or not because that would be an asinine thing for him to do as a teammate right????? Yeah. Armstrong looks strong, smart, and a team player. Contador looks strong, stupid, and selfish.

All I can say is you sound ridiculous. If Lance had counterattacked Evans' initial attack and Evans, Schleck couldn't counter, you'd be lauding his beautiful tactics. Instead because Contador did it, it is proof of his inexperience. Just hilarious.

 

[dadoorsron]

So I guess you missed the Silence Lotto rider's attack that immediately preceded Contador's counter-attack? You know the guy he passed on the corner. I'm still trying to understand what it was that you think Contador was supposed to do? He counter-attacked Evans et al, if they could follow we wouldn't be having this conversation. They couldn't and so Contador went up the road. Perhaps you should direct your ire (and disappointment about Lance not being in yellow) at Saxo Bank, Silence Lotto and Cervelo Test Team since they couldn't do anything.

lol that wasn't an attack. that was an attempt at something! who was that guy anyway? He wasn't a GC contender that's why no one moved on that. You move from 4-5th spot in the lead group then jump the group is your own attack. Why would a GC contender counter some guy that no one worried about.
Saxo, lotto and cervelo can't do anything because astana is to strong.

 

[byu123]

a counter attack means you ride up to someone and then attack or ride past the attacking rider. no one in front of you and evans already in the rear of the lead group contador attacked the group. Again why would lance counter his own teammate.

Publicus knows you are right. He just hates Armstrong period. His whole argument masks the only foundation to all he says which is he hates Armstrong period. Tactics, strategy, what was the right thing to do, etc. is irrelevant to him. He's showing his true colors by ignoring obvious smart cycling tactics and just pursuing the sniff the saddle of Contador strategy cuz he gained 2 whole seconds on Armstrong by being a strong a$$ today.

 

[janus1969]

Wow...

Apparently there are many here who are not students of professional bicycle racing or team tactics...and fewer still who have raced.

Regardless of whether AC was supposed to attack or not, his teammates were REQUIRED to ride tempo after he did. You don't drag your competitors back to your teammate when a teammate has attacked, regardless of whether he SHOULD have attacked or not. It's bad tactics, poor behavior, and otherwise a douchebag thing to do.

It was clear after the stage in interviews that AC went against team orders and planned tactics with his attack. If he does that again, he's going to find himself isolated on the team. It's not about LA vs. AC; it's about following proper team behavior.

In Stage 3, AC was a moron and got caught out in the break. That was not LA "taking advantage" so much as AC being an idiot. What the hell was the presumed leader doing back at the team car during an exposed, windy section?! That was a bad judgment call. It's like today's winner, who showed he's a neo-pro because he didn't zip up his jersey for the money shot at the line. I'm certain Agritubel was REALLY pleased with that...