Official Lance Armstrong thread

[dadoorsron]

When they go to the front and pull after that, they are putting time into him. Also if you watch the video, Contador isn't the one that caused the split, that was one or two riders in front of him. He was there, and got gaped because of the failure of someone else. This whole talk of "inexperience" and "inattentiveness" being the cause is just fanboy justification.

No that's him not being at the front of the peleton when team radio was saying the wind will shift at the upcoming turn. Armstrong went to the front and contador did not get there fast enough. Not paying attention is his fault not the teams.

 

[whiteboytrash]

Armstrong not too happy about Contador's attack which 'wasn't the plan'

Armstrong interview after the stage

Geez... more excuses than a child who hasn't done their homework.

He sounds defeated. I mean he even started praising Cadel ! Yep Cadel and I go way back... great friends.

 

[dadoorsron]

Contador's attack not part of Astana plan

Armstrong not surprised, however

Though they both race in the colours of Astana, Lance Armstrong and Alberto Contador continue to be more convincing as rivals than teammates.

As he recovered at the summit finish to Friday's seventh stage, Armstrong dropped another hint or 10 that he and Alberto Contador, who attacked his group with 2 kilometres remaining, are racing to different agendas.

Asked if Contador's move had been pre-arranged, Armstrong said, "That wasn't really to the plan, but I didn't expect him to go by the plan, so [it was] no surprise."

Astana was prominent as stage seven saw the Tour enter the mountains, assuming responsibility for chasing down the break, with Armstrong sitting comfortably close to the front, Contador on his wheel. The order from team director Johan Bruyneel, said Armstrong, had been to "chill out a bit, slow down," as they climbed to the finish at Andorre Arcalis, even though Armstrong - or indeed Contador - had a good chance of taking the yellow jersey.

As it turned out, Rinaldo Nocentini (AG2R La Mondiale) claimed the lead by just six seconds, with Contador moving up to second, Armstrong to third, just two more seconds behind his teammate. Missing out on the jersey was no bad thing, suggested Armstrong, since it was "better to preserve the team a little.

"Like I said, I wasn't surprised [by Contador's attack, but] it was windy, so it was hard to be alone in the wind," continued Armstrong.

"When you've got a guy away, like I've said all along, my obligation is to the team. You've got to stay on the wheels. [Andy] Schleck put in some good moves, Cadel [Evans] put in some good moves, Wiggo [Bradley Wiggins] at the end put in a good move."

Armstrong confirmed that he is climbing better than he was at the recent Giro d'Italia. "I have a lot better legs than at the Giro, that was to be expected." But the climb - and the headwind - may have been a factor in keeping the main group largely intact. "It's not a very steep climb, so the speed is high, and there were constant rhythm changes as it changed from headwind to tailwind, headwind to tailwind.

"It's maybe not my speciality, but not bad considering," said Armstrong of the climb. "I didn't expect [to give] a demonstration like some of the other years on the first mountain day. The wind wasn't conducive to that. You saw a big group there [at the finish], but there are plenty of days at the end of this Tour when there are only [going to be] a couple of guys together."

Who the couple of guys might be, he didn't say.

 

[Escarabajo]

My goodness. Relax. Tomorrow will be another day.

I am sure Contador needs more experience, but he probably felt very uncomfortable having Lance in front of him. Now he will follow the team rules because if they arrive together tomorrow and they drop Nocentini in the last climb, he will be the leader and not Lance. That plays a big psychological role in the race.

This is exactly right. That's what everyone knows. Whoever gets the yellow jersey first in in the driver's seat. AC isn't stupid.

That was exactly what i said earlier. But I guess BYU123 is busy trying to respond to almost everybody.

 

[dadoorsron]

Geez... more excuses than a child who hasn't done their homework.

He sounds defeated. I mean he even started praising Cadel ! Yep Cadel and I go way back... great friends.

Yeah you don't want to say he can't believe how lame of an attack cadel had going up an easy climb.

 

[Anonymous]

No that's him not being at the front of the peleton when team radio was saying the wind will shift at the upcoming turn. Armstrong went to the front and contador did not get there fast enough. Not paying attention is his fault not the teams.

No, completely wrong, Contador was maybe 2 or 3 riders behind Armstrong, and a rider in between gaped. It is all there on film. He was right where he should have been, he just got screwed by a rider not strong enough to hold the wheel in front of him. It was bound to happen somewhere, and it happened just behind Armstrong making him lucky and Contador not. All of the other talk is just fanboy rhetoric.

 

[Azdak6]

No. But I also didn't expect him to go against all common sense, abandone a perfectly executed team plan, and just go for his own glory either. If you look at today Armstrong was precisely that, a loyal teammate. He covered the accelerations of A. Schleck and Evans once Contador went up the road. Show me one instance in terms of how he has ridden in the TDF so far where Armstrong was "angling for position within Astana against Contador" it isn't there. The only possible candidate when he gained time in stage 3 was because Contador was stupid and caused the break himself.

You still have to credibly explain how having team lined up as Contador-Armstrong-Kloden-Leipheimer is "against all common sense" compared to Armstrong-Contador-Kloden-Leipheimer.

The team positioning hasn't changed. Contador switching places w/Armstrong hasn't altered the race dynamics--certainly not the way Astana has been going. There is no way you can plausibly claim that Contador "burned his matches" with the attack.

And given everything going on with the Astana team, you can't tell me that even if AC went against team strategy he is really disrupting the "team chemistry".

 

[dadoorsron]

No, completely wrong, Contador was maybe 2 or 3 riders behind Armstrong, and a rider in between gaped. It is all there on film. He was right where he should have been, he just got screwed by a rider not strong enough to hold the wheel in front of him. It was bound to happen somewhere, and it happened just behind Armstrong making him lucky and Contador not. All of the other talk is just fanboy rhetoric.

Hmm, No if contador was so close to armstrong why wouldn't he of followed armstrong? That is just a strawman argument.

 

[whiteboytrash]

Talking trash again, "white"boy. Dhat's sweet mawn.

If you don't think Lance couldn't have had the yellow jersey today, then your still out of the loop. He gave AC the opportunity and AC didn't have it today. Maybe tomorrow, ya say?

Things are just beginning to heat up. Oh, I forgot, Lance is just gonna roll over and quietly disappear, just for you.

As I said before. Lance has just had a new baby. He has abandoned his family for what ? To come 17th in Tour ? What for ? A book deal, a movie, a chance to hang out with Ben Stiller ?

Mate fine by me. If you want to donate to Armstrong lavish lifestyle then go for it. I'm happy taking care of young man Contador who asks nothing from me, not money, he just gives to me by being the most talented cyclist that has ever graced this earth.

I noted the Spanish riders from other teams patting Contador on the back tonight. They love him just like I do.

 

[Escarabajo]

Hmm, No if contador was so close to armstrong why wouldn't he of followed armstrong? That is just a strawman argument.

Have you ever ridden against the wind in your own trying to chase a pack of 30 riders? He was caught in no-man's land.

 

[Zen Master]

"When you've got a guy away, like I've said all along, my obligation is to the team. You've got to stay on the wheels. [Andy] Schleck put in some good moves, Cadel [Evans] put in some good moves, Wiggo [Bradley Wiggins] at the end put in a good move."

Yeeeeessssssssss finally we have explanation from good Samaritan Lance himself... No one couldn't follow Contador except him, but good Lance have obligation to the team !?! Ohhhhh is it a tears of joy on my face ???! Ohhhh I'm crying, Lance thank you for all your goodness, thank you for your humanity !!??

 

[dadoorsron]

Have you ever ridden against the wind in your own trying to chase a pack of 30 riders? He was caught in no-man's land.

I'm 220-221 pounds Im always in the wind! For a pro cyclist 4-5 riders behind your teammate and you see him picking up speed because the wind directions will change why wouldn't you follow him. It's a strawman argument about why Contador missed the break. It just shows he wasn't paying attention to the race. Johan stated it and most of the riders mentioned it.

 

[dadoorsron]

Yeeeeessssssssss finally we have explanation from good Samaritan Lance himself... No one couldn't follow Contador except him, but good Lance have obligation to the team !?! Ohhhhh is it a tears of joy on my face ???! Ohhhh I'm crying, Lance thank you for all your goodness, thank you for your humanity !!??

LOL why would you chase down your own teammate. If you can explain it to me why you would chase a teammate down then you can use this arguement until then come up with something else.

 

[Anonymous]

Hmm, No if contador was so close to armstrong why wouldn't he of followed armstrong? That is just a strawman argument.

You clearly do not understand what a "straw man" argument is. I am telling you what is on video tape. Contador was maybe one or two wheels behind Armstrong and got gaped. Happens on Show and Go rides all of the time. I am not sure you understand the aerodynamics of what happened, but clearly you have not watched the video.

 

[Anonymous]

LOL why would you chase down your own teammate. If you can explain it to me why you would chase a teammate down then you can use this arguement until then come up with something else.

Why would your DS order two of your teammates to the front when your strongest rider got gaped by another rider? Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[Mellow Velo]

When you are in positions 1 through 4 and riding tempo as a team while others are dropped off the back the smart thing to do is exactly what Astana was doing and it was working (i.e. Sparticus dropped). Contador showed his strength but also his stupidity a la causing the break in stage 3.

Don't try and teach granny to suck eggs, sonny.
You are a self confesed novice and already, you have promoted yourself to expert, par excellence.

If Astana, or any other half decent contender couldn't drop Cancellara, they might as well pack their bags.....

Umm, now, about those 1 through 4. Did any of them get dropped, in relation to the rest? No. Thought not
Do you really think all 4 will get through to Paris without getting sacrificed?

Oh hang on.....of course, one of them is certain to be hung out to dry.

 

[dadoorsron]

You clearly do not understand what a "straw man" argument is. I am telling you what is on video tape. Contador was maybe one or two wheels behind Armstrong and got gaped. Happens on Show and Go rides all of the time. I am not sure you understand the aerodynamics of what happened, but clearly you have not watched the video.

I have watched the tape. I watched it live and I watched the replay later that evening. Here is your problem Contador was on the other side of the road. He was not as close as you think he was. If Contador was only two wheels off of Armstrongs wheel surely a rider of Contadors strength could stick to the wheel of armstrong in a wind direction change making a right hand turn. However, Since he wasn't a wheel off of him and he was on the other side of the peleton he wasn't near him and wasn't paying attention to the situation of the race.

You are using the exact meaning of a straw man argument. You are taking my stance and changing the focus of where Contador was in the peleton. He was not behind or near armstrong. Therefore for you to use your argument that he just couldn't hold armstrongs wheel in the wind change. Now if he couldn't hold armstrongs wheel doesn't that make him not as strong as armstrong? your argument then falls apart.

 

[byu123]

This is exactly right. That's what everyone knows. Whoever gets the yellow jersey first in in the driver's seat. AC isn't stupid.

Your hypocrisy is stunning. I'm sure you would sing exactly the same tune if Armstrong had dropped the plan and gone up the road right? No . . . that would have been seen by you and TFF as selfish and tactically stupid.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Astana didn't put time into Contador. Contador wasn't paying attention and missed the split.

Contador didn't put time into Armstrong. Armstrong wasn't paying attention and missed the attack.

 

[dadoorsron]

Why would your DS order two of your teammates to the front when your strongest rider got gaped by another rider? Inquiring minds want to know.

See that I don't know. I questions why they did that as well? However, Johan pre stage interview he stated after sleeping on it he is convinced he made the right choose to send his two riders up front to help pull. In a race where every second counts one of the main contenders in the race has an opportunity to gain time on his rivals what do you do?

 

[dadoorsron]

Contador didn't put time into Armstrong. Armstrong wasn't paying attention and missed the attack.

What? are you talking about today or about the stage three split?

 

[Anonymous]

I have watched the tape. I watched it live and I watched the replay later that evening. Here is your problem Contador was on the other side of the road. He was not as close as you think he was. If Contador was only two wheels off of Armstrongs wheel surely a rider of Contadors strength could stick to the wheel of armstrong in a wind direction change making a right hand turn. However, Since he wasn't a wheel off of him and he was on the other side of the peleton he wasn't near him and wasn't paying attention to the situation of the race.

You are using the exact meaning of a straw man argument. You are taking my stance and changing the focus of where Contador was in the peleton. He was not behind or near armstrong. Therefore for you to use your argument that he just couldn't hold armstrongs wheel in the wind change. Now if he couldn't hold armstrongs wheel doesn't that make him not as strong as armstrong? your argument then falls apart.

No, I am counting the number of riders between Contador and Mr Armstrong and also noticing that there was one rider in front of Contador. THAT rider gaped Contador. I am guessing you don't ride much because that kind of thing happens all of the time. So if I :The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position.

I didn't ignore anything you said. I said the visual evidence shows that you are wrong. There is nothing distorted or misrepresented about that. You would be the one distorting and misrepresenting. Maybe it is just projection. Either way, I am pretty sure you will not convince me of something I watched.

 

[byu123]

Don't try and teach granny to suck eggs, sonny.
You are a self confesed novice and already, you have promoted yourself to expert, par excellence.

Uh . . . no its basic common sense and cycling tactics 101. Just because I don't have my nice little cycling avatar with my little yellow jersey doesn't mean squat. Oh yes . . . big man with anonymous moniker on the Internet blog bragging about what an expert he is and talking down to another anonymous moniker. Gee your such a stud! Of course you do consider yourself to be that "expert, par excellence" don't you??? Well if you are . . . you are making the often sophomoric mistake of letting your bias get in the way of your knowledge. Happens to lots of so called "experts." So you know something about cycling, but your bias gloms onto an idea that even a moron knows is bad cycling tactics . . . .

 

[Anonymous]

Your hypocrisy is stunning. I'm sure you would sing exactly the same tune if Armstrong had dropped the plan and gone up the road right? No . . . that would have been seen by you and TFF as selfish and tactically stupid.

So your strongest rider (even by your admission) gains time on all of his competition and that is a problem? See, he didn't attack an Armstrong in yellow, he just put time into all of their rivals and made a bid for yellow so that the team would be in the strongest position possible. Same thing Armstrong did when Popo and Zubeldia (reluctantly for the latter) were sent to the front to put time into their competition.

You are taking all of this a bit personal BYU.

 

[byu123]

No, I am counting the number of riders between Contador and Mr Armstrong and also noticing that there was one rider in front of Contador. THAT rider gaped Contador. I am guessing you don't ride much because that kind of thing happens all of the time. So if I :The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position.

I didn't ignore anything you said. I said the visual evidence shows that you are wrong. There is nothing distorted or misrepresented about that. You would be the one distorting and misrepresenting. Maybe it is just projection. Either way, I am pretty sure you will not convince me of something I watched.

That rider who "gapped" Contador was of no more significance than the 8 in the break away that "gapped" him at the start of the stage and put 3 minutes into him at the end. Give me a break.