Official Lance Armstrong thread

[richwagmn]

Contador didn't put time into Armstrong. Armstrong wasn't paying attention and missed the attack.

Touche' Guess Armstrong is just stupid.

 

[dadoorsron]

No, I am counting the number of riders between Contador and Mr Armstrong and also noticing that there was one rider in front of Contador. THAT rider gaped Contador. I am guessing you don't ride much because that kind of thing happens all of the time. So if I :The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position.

I didn't ignore anything you said. I said the visual evidence shows that you are wrong. There is nothing distorted or misrepresented about that. You would be the one distorting and misrepresenting. Maybe it is just projection. Either way, I am pretty sure you will not convince me of something I watched.

Visual evidence shows contador on the other side of the peleton 8-10 riders away from armstrong. Johan even said contador should of been paying attention. Your assumption that contador was very close to armstrong leads to the argument that contador isn't as strong as armstrong. If Armstrong can bridge a gap like he did he proves he is stronger then contador. Riders that are not paying attention get split not riders that try and get dropped. Why didn't contador see the problem before hand. Team radio (what Johan said in interviews) said wind change and watch for a split. That means only 3 astana riders were strong enough to bridge the gap. even though those 3 riders where well into the group when it split apart. That's what visual evidence shows. See your version of this doesn't match what visual evidence there is and it doesn't support the knowledge these riders had prior to the turn. The only argument is that Contador and the rest of the peleton was not paying attention. team Saxo bank at the front of the peleton dropped the hammer. Were Contador was to the front of the peleton is in contrast to your argument. If he was closer to the front of the peleton he would of noticed the speed change at the turn. If he was as close to Armstrong as you say why wouldn't he follow armstrong?

 

[richwagmn]

Your hypocrisy is stunning. I'm sure you would sing exactly the same tune if Armstrong had dropped the plan and gone up the road right? No . . . that would have been seen by you and TFF as selfish and tactically stupid.

Hypocrisy? Over?

Do I want LA to lose? Yep. But if LA got the jersey, it's all over for AC. LA will demand complete obedience.

And LA wasn't selfish in stage 3?

We'll see who the strongest rider is. Most everyone believes it's AC. Stay tuned.

I think you expected it to be handed to LA and for AC to roll over and be his puppy. AC know's LA is completely out for himself.

 

[dadoorsron]

Hypocrisy? Over?

Do I want LA to lose? Yep. But if LA got the jersey, it's all over for AC. LA will demand complete obedience.

And LA wasn't selfish in stage 3?

We'll see who the strongest rider is. Most everyone believes it's AC. Stay tuned.

I think you expected it to be handed to LA and for AC to roll over and be his puppy. AC know's LA is completely out for himself.

If armstrong was out for himself don't you think he would of followed Contador when he made his break?

 

[richwagmn]

If armstrong was out for himself don't you think he would of followed Contador when he made his break?

You're assuming he could. Again, if Evans, Schleck and the others didn't go with AC, what makes you think LA could? Imagine how foolish he'd have looked if chased and couldn't get back on.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Touche' Guess Armstrong is just stupid.

Not half as stupid as .........
Do yourself a favour and leave this place of idle idol worship.

 

[dadoorsron]

You're assuming he could. Again, if Evans, Schleck and the others didn't go with AC, what makes you think LA could? Imagine how foolish he'd have looked if chased and couldn't get back on.

And you are assuming he can't Again argue the matter of attacking a teammate and you can use the arguement. Evans is hoping for a top ten finish now he lost more time today and he even put in a pretty lame attack that got sucked up pretty quickly. Schleck I don't know about him. Andy Schleck looked good last year in the tour but, armstrong and Contador were not there. I give Andy Schleck a top 5 maybe. However, you can't tell what kind of legs the major contenders have at the moment because it wasn't a very hard climb.

 

[pmcg76]

Lance has now said he was not surprised that Alberto attacked, wonder why not, is it because he knows Contador is the better climber and that if Bertie plays along to the Astana plan, it plays into the hands of Lance, HIS BIGGEST RIVAL FOR THE TOUR VICTORY.

If Lance knows this. why cant all the Lance fans see the same thing, they are competing for the victory, forget the team loyalties, there are no team loyalties at Astana, this is not a normal race. Lance has the perfect foil here if things do not go his way, he can say he was being a good team-mate.

Lance was one of the most ruthless riders out there, do people reall believed he has changed and is now riding for a direct competitor.

 

[whiteboytrash]

Lance has now said he was not surprised that Alberto attacked, wonder why not, is it because he knows Contador is the better climber and that if Bertie plays along to the Astana plan, it plays into the hands of Lance, HIS BIGGEST RIVAL FOR THE TOUR VICTORY.

If Lance knows this. why cant all the Lance fans see the same thing, they are competing for the victory, forget the team loyalties, there are no team loyalties at Astana, this is not a normal race. Lance has the perfect foil here if things do not go his way, he can say he was being a good team-mate.

Lance was one of the most ruthless riders out there, do people reall believed he has changed and is now riding for a direct competitor.

Bruyneel is saying that there wasn't a plan. That if a rider felt good and wanted to attack he could. Just as long as he let the other aware of his intentions. Appears Lance is lying again.

 

[pmcg76]

All the pro Lance fans are suddenly experts on Team Tactics, maybe I should direct your attention to the 1987 Giro d'Italia, Stephen Roche v Roberto Visetini, maybe it will give you guys an idea how team tactics are going to play out this year. Team loyalties, RUBBISH. As I said, if you have been around long enough, you will have a better understanding of what happens in the situation we have this year.

 

[byu123]

And LA wasn't selfish in stage 3? . . . AC know's LA is completely out for himself.

No he wasn't selfish. Every single commentator expert on the sport has described what he did as smart cycling tactics by a season rider. When its windy and a bend in the road is going to create a strong cross wind move to the front. Not selfish . . . smart. Contador was just inexperienced. Strong but inexperienced thats all.

AC certainly believes LA is out for himself. AC's problem is that Kloden, Leipheimer and Popovych all now know for certain that AC is in it for himself, team tactics be damned. I'm not sure those three were in that camp before today. If AC thinks he is strong enough to single handedly win the TDF without coordianted team support more power to him. He just may be that strong. Problem is, if he isn't, he screwed himself today with some of his most important super domestiques who now for the first time may decide . . . "well AC played the first 'everyman for himself card' so I guess that leaves us free to support either "leader" and we may just choose to support the "other leader" and not AC."

AC blew up any notion of team unity and coordiation today. Swung the door wide up to anything goes. If thats the case, unless "the older guy" completely blows up, I don't see them choosing to join the AC camp.

I guess we'll see if AC can ride solo all the way to Paris. He knows . . . he just might. As I have always said . . . if forced to bet money, I would bet on AC.

 

[richwagmn]

And you are assuming he can't .

I think it's a safe assumption. Ever listen to Bruyneel talk about AC's attacks? Brutal. And they come again and again and again.

Watch the attack again. AC was gone. As one journalist put it, like an F18 off the deck of an aircraft carrier.

Smart as hell place to attack to. When the road turned into the wind.

So AC's already beat LA in the opening TT and blown his doors off at the top of today's stage. Tell me why he's not team leader?

 

[colwildcat]

As I said before. Lance has just had a new baby. He has abandoned his family for what ? To come 17th in Tour ? What for ? A book deal, a movie, a chance to hang out with Ben Stiller ?

Mate fine by me. If you want to donate to Armstrong lavish lifestyle then go for it. I'm happy taking care of young man Contador who asks nothing from me, not money, he just gives to me by being the most talented cyclist that has ever graced this earth.

I noted the Spanish riders from other teams patting Contador on the back tonight. They love him just like I do.

Come on people, let's be consistent. Where are the attacks on this "fanboy". Most talented ever? Are you freaking kidding me? I am sure you are convinced Lance is doping. But, his teammate is clean, right? It's all convenient when you completely alter logic to fit your view of the world.

How does watching and cheering for a guy collecting no salary contribute to his "lavish" lifestyle, genius? Do you wear Nike? Do you wear Oakley? Then you're contributing as well.

 

[janus1969]

All the pro Lance fans are suddenly experts on Team Tactics, maybe I should direct your attention to the 1987 Giro d'Italia, Stephen Roche v Roberto Visetini, maybe it will give you guys an idea how team tactics are going to play out this year. Team loyalties, RUBBISH. As I said, if you have been around long enough, you will have a better understanding of what happens in the situation we have this year.

I much prefer La Vie Claire circa 1985 meself...but then again, I won't Badger you with any indication that I've been following this sport for some degree of time...

 

[dadoorsron]

All the pro Lance fans are suddenly experts on Team Tactics, maybe I should direct your attention to the 1987 Giro d'Italia, Stephen Roche v Roberto Visetini, maybe it will give you guys an idea how team tactics are going to play out this year. Team loyalties, RUBBISH. As I said, if you have been around long enough, you will have a better understanding of what happens in the situation we have this year.

Just like Hinault and Lemond. It's nothing new.

 

[BikeCentric]

That's easy he didn't follow team plans and went off on his own. That makes you look like an *** to Kloden, Levi, Popo, Zubeldia that are loyal to the team and team tactics. Levi, Kloden and Popo are very close to Armstrong. I think Contador will have alot of explaining to do today.

Yah dude, demonstrating that you're the strongest climber in the race and putting time into your rivals SO THAT YOU CAN WIN THE F'ING TOUR DE FRANCE totally makes you look stupid. Totally dude.

You sure know a lot about cycling dadoorsron! Been racing for a long time eh?

You know about as much about cycling as a box of rocks pal. Stop posting; you're embarassing yourself in front of those of us who have a clue about this sport.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

All the pro Lance fans are suddenly experts on Team Tactics, maybe I should direct your attention to the 1987 Giro d'Italia, Stephen Roche v Roberto Visetini, maybe it will give you guys an idea how team tactics are going to play out this year. Team loyalties, RUBBISH. As I said, if you have been around long enough, you will have a better understanding of what happens in the situation we have this year.

Wayhay... I was just going to remind you about that as you mentioned it on the other thread that you couldnt remember a similar situation - this is turning out quite like that.
However Contador and Armstrong are a lot closer in performance than Visentini Roche were..... and I don't expect either of them to go home early.

 

[Escarabajo]

No he wasn't selfish. Every single commentator expert on the sport has described what he did as smart cycling tactics by a season rider. When its windy and a bend in the road is going to create a strong cross wind move to the front. Not selfish . . . smart. Contador was just inexperienced. Strong but inexperienced thats all.

AC certainly believes LA is out for himself. AC's problem is that Kloden, Leipheimer and Popovych all now know for certain that AC is in it for himself, team tactics be damned. I'm not sure those three were in that camp before today. If AC thinks he is strong enough to single handedly win the TDF without coordianted team support more power to him. He just may be that strong. Problem is, if he isn't, he screwed himself today with some of his most important super domestiques who now for the first time may decide . . . "well AC played the first 'everyman for himself card' so I guess that leaves us free to support either "leader" and we may just choose to support the "other leader" and not AC."

AC blew up any notion of team unity and coordiation today. Swung the door wide up to anything goes. If thats the case, unless "the older guy" completely blows up, I don't see them choosing to join the AC camp.

I guess we'll see if AC can ride solo all the way to Paris. He knows . . . he just might. As I have always said . . . if forced to bet money, I would bet on AC.

Here in the USA? How many of those do you have?
Why don't they use them in Versus?

 

[dadoorsron]

I think it's a safe assumption. Ever listen to Bruyneel talk about AC's attacks? Brutal. And they come again and again and again.

Watch the attack again. AC was gone. As one journalist put it, like an F18 off the deck of an aircraft carrier.

Smart as hell place to attack to. When the road turned into the wind.

So AC's already beat LA in the opening TT and blown his doors off at the top of today's stage. Tell me why he's not team leader?

Yeah, Johan said he has the most explosion in his attacks. However, you ride a higher tempo contador has to set in a rythm you can close the gap slowly but can close it. Just like when lance would catch someone in his run. Ullrich would ride back within 500 meters.

He didn't blow the doors off of anyone. 4.7 percent grade! 1 k or a bit more to go. Not an impressive move by any means.

 

[pmcg76]

I think you mean 86 but the difference was, Hinault always claimed he was riding for LeMond, not that I believe that. Hinault was clearly stronger at the start of that race but overestimated his powers. I agree this is a good example but Roche and Visetini were at each other from the beginning because both wanted to win. Sorry, forgot there was conflict in 85 with director telling LeMond not to attack, which are you referring to.

 

[BikeCentric]

Why is everyone saying Lance didn't attack. Why would a rider attack his own teammate? 21 seconds 1 k at 4.7 percent grade. Not that hard to do that for a professional.

If you had half a clue about bike racing you'd know that it's HARDER for a climber to get a gap that big on a moderate climb than a steeper one because the pace of the group is much higher. Now stop posting you clueless fool.

 

[whiteboytrash]

He didn't blow the doors off of anyone. 4.7 percent grade! 1 k or a bit more to go. Not an impressive move by any means.

Into a massive head and no one could catch him. Not even a 7 time Tour winner. Viva la Espana.

 

[BikeCentric]

Comments made by bruyneel and certainly armstrong after the stage leads you to believe that team tactics where to ride together and not attack. bruyneel stated it's not astana problem to attack!

Yup, Bruyneel must be really upset that one of his riders put time into all of his major rivals. Considering that's the only way to win a bike race one must wonder why that would upset him; but I'm sure it makes sense in the mind of someone who knows nothing about cycling like you dadoorson. Now go away and stop posting.

 

[jilbiker]

Cross team bonding

I don't see Bruyneel dishing LA for AC. But if AC saw all this why stay? Doesn't add up. Perhaps all this supposed inter team wrangling is to distract the competition, clearly the competition has been sliced off, they thought Astana would implode, clearly hasn't. Do they have a plan B? Hope they do.

But if all this is really true, if LA talks too much, if we indeed have 4 selfish guys in one team each after their own agenda, then AC has a plan B which is cross team help, he already did a trial run of that, and I think he will find subscribers easily

 

[BikeCentric]

Yes. In both today's stage and stage 3 Contador showed his inexperience (ability not withstanding). You compare apples and oranges. In stage 3 Armstrong gained time because he was smart and Contador was stupid. In today's stage Contador gained time because he abandoned a team plan that was working to perfection and went for glory against all tactical common sense (they had places 1-4 once Spartacus was dropped). All they had to do was ride tempo and mark the attacks of GC contenders farther back. Your comparison is false. Contador looked like a strong a$$ today. We don't know if Armstrong could have covered the attack or not because that would be an asinine thing for him to do as a teammate right????? Yeah. Armstrong looks strong, smart, and a team player. Contador looks strong, stupid, and selfish.

Actually you show your own inexperience with this idiotic statement. The way to win a bike race is to attack on the climbs and gap your rivals. Everyone respects a contender who attacks on a climb and puts time into his rivals. If you had watched the Tour in the past you would know that Armstrong's old Postal/Disco strategy was always to have his team ride hard tempo up the last climb (as Astana did today) and then Lance would attack solo near the final KM's to put time into his competitors (as Contador did today).

Just riding tempo up to the finish as you suggest was a good idea and NOT taking more time from his rivals when he had the legs to do as demonstrated by Contador would have been the stupid thing to do. Everyone who know anything about bike racing knows this. You demonstrate to us all that you don't know jack about the sport with your numerous illogical comments. Now go back to your Mormon football discussion boards and let the real cycling fans talk about the sport they love, and stop polluting this thread with your retardation.