Official Lance Armstrong thread

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Jun 18, 2009
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jilbiker said:
I don't see Bruyneel dishing LA for AC. But if AC saw all this why stay? Doesn't add up. Perhaps all this supposed inter team wrangling is to distract the competition, clearly the competition has been sliced off, they thought Astana would implode, clearly hasn't. Do they have a plan B? Hope they do.

But if all this is really true, if LA talks too much, if we indeed have 4 selfish guys in one team each after their own agenda, then AC has a plan B which is cross team help, he already did a trial run of that, and I think he will find subscribers easily

He can't leave because he's under contract. To leave and race for another team requires Bruyneel to let him go. Just ask Chris Horner.

Regarding help from other teams (especially the Spanish teams), that'd be interesting to see. I'm not sure it will happen and I don't think, as others do, that AC really burned any bridges on Astana.

As a matter of fact, he asserted his team leadership today. By moving above LA on GC, he's said I'm the leader. People respect that. They don't respect someone who rolls over.

Regarding strategy today, Bruyneel said he didn't want Astana to take the yellow today (after the stage) so he didn't have to defend. Since AC didn't get yellow, it really doesn't affect the plans much.
 
Apr 9, 2009
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dadoorsron said:
a counter attack means you ride up to someone and then attack or ride past the attacking rider. no one in front of you and evans already in the rear of the lead group contador attacked the group. Again why would lance counter his own teammate.

Actually if you had actually watched the race you would have seen that Contador clearly counterattacked Evans as it was Evans that he passed in the corner when he made his move. So Evans was on the front of the group when Contador counterattacked him and not on the back as you say.

Again you demonstrate that you're a total idiot, a three-week TDF Lance fan, and lack any knowledge of cycling whatsoever. Now go away, you're ****ting up the discussion board.
 
Mar 17, 2009
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jilbiker said:
I don't see Bruyneel dishing LA for AC. But if AC saw all this why stay? Doesn't add up. Perhaps all this supposed inter team wrangling is to distract the competition, clearly the competition has been sliced off, they thought Astana would implode, clearly hasn't. Do they have a plan B? Hope they do.

But if all this is really true, if LA talks too much, if we indeed have 4 selfish guys in one team each after their own agenda, then AC has a plan B which is cross team help, he already did a trial run of that, and I think he will find subscribers easily



Lance isn't stupid. Bruyneel isn't stupid. Alberto isn't stupid.

As you say, I think this "internal struggle" is a load of nonsense. They are just keeping everyone guessing. If Alberto had really gone against "the plan", I don't think Lance would be telling the press.
 
May 5, 2009
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jilbiker said:
I don't see Bruyneel dishing LA for AC. But if AC saw all this why stay? Doesn't add up. Perhaps all this supposed inter team wrangling is to distract the competition, clearly the competition has been sliced off, they thought Astana would implode, clearly hasn't. Do they have a plan B? Hope they do.

But if all this is really true, if LA talks too much, if we indeed have 4 selfish guys in one team each after their own agenda, then AC has a plan B which is cross team help, he already did a trial run of that, and I think he will find subscribers easily

I don't think he has 4 selfish riders, by any stretch. He has Leipheimer, the consummate professional, who had his run of victories and team support early this season, who came to blow himself up for the team win. He has Kloden, who has shown no signs of being selfish.

He has the best rider in the world today, who is rightfully angry that the greatest TDF rider ever decided to come out of retirement to spoil his party.

And he has the old guy, who came back for altruistic reasons, apparently, but who probably realized that it sure would be nice to win something again. Those of you that hate him can rail on all you want, but if you looked at this without the blinders on, you'd see that he has gained some valuable support for his Foundation during his visits to other countries during his comeback.

Look, you can all sit here and insult each other, call each other stupid, etc, but it appears that what will happen is what many of us thought all along. Contador will win this thing handily, Lance will most likely be on the podium, and then everyone can go on about their business. When the team gets blown up at the end of the season, we'll get the books that will explain each of their sides. Then, we can all Monday morning quarterback and see if our impressions were correct. But, the fact remains that none of us are in their heads, in the team car, or on the bus. So, let your opinions be your opinions, but enough with the condescension and the "I'm smarter than you" posts.
 
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dadoorsron said:
Visual evidence shows contador on the other side of the peleton 8-10 riders away from armstrong. Johan even said contador should of been paying attention. Your assumption that contador was very close to armstrong leads to the argument that contador isn't as strong as armstrong. If Armstrong can bridge a gap like he did he proves he is stronger then contador. Riders that are not paying attention get split not riders that try and get dropped. Why didn't contador see the problem before hand. Team radio (what Johan said in interviews) said wind change and watch for a split. That means only 3 astana riders were strong enough to bridge the gap. even though those 3 riders where well into the group when it split apart. That's what visual evidence shows. See your version of this doesn't match what visual evidence there is and it doesn't support the knowledge these riders had prior to the turn. The only argument is that Contador and the rest of the peleton was not paying attention. team Saxo bank at the front of the peleton dropped the hammer. Were Contador was to the front of the peleton is in contrast to your argument. If he was closer to the front of the peleton he would of noticed the speed change at the turn. If he was as close to Armstrong as you say why wouldn't he follow armstrong?

Armstrong didn't bridge the gap and the visual evidence doee not show what you are saying. He didn't follow because someone in front of him let the gap open. What you say and what happened are two different things.

Irrespective of that, Contador gained the time back that was taken from him BY HIS OWN TEAM on stage 3. See, they got within 18 seconds of catching back on. Then JB told Popo to go to the front with Zubeldia, and the rest as they say, is history. As is today's stage. Clearly the difference being that today the strongest rider is ahead after the stage.
 
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dadoorsron said:
He didn't blow the doors off of anyone. 4.7 percent grade! 1 k or a bit more to go. Not an impressive move by any means.

Actually, that is even more impressive as it was not a steep gradient and he was able to gap and keep it. In that instance, the others like Schleck and Wiggins should have been able to catch him considering the grade. Very impressive indeed.
 
Apr 9, 2009
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byu123 said:
When you are in positions 1 through 4 and riding tempo as a team while others are dropped off the back the smart thing to do is exactly what Astana was doing and it was working (i.e. Sparticus dropped). Contador showed his strength but also his stupidity a la causing the break in stage 3.

Everyone that knows anything about cycling here knew that Cancellara was going to be dropped immediately the second the road turned upwards. Cancellara has nothign to do with the general classification in a Tour de France and his position on the road was a complete non-factor in anything Astana or any other GC contending team did. The fact that you even mention his name in the context of Astana's team tactics shows that you're an idiot. But we knew this from the moment you showed up on this board and said "hai guyz I've never ridden a bike before but I like Lance so I'm here to talk about how much I'd like to sniff his saddle all day and every day."
 
Apr 9, 2009
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dadoorsron said:
Astana didn't put time into Contador. Contador wasn't paying attention and missed the split.

And after Contador missed the split Astana worked with Columbia in the front group to put time into him.

Again, something you'd know if you'd actually watched the race, had half a clue about cycling, and weren't a complete and total idiot. Now go away and never post here again.
 
Apr 9, 2009
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pmcg76 said:
This is all comedy to me, there are two contenders only for this Tour, Lance and Alberto, they happen to be on the same team which is bad for them, for the Tour and for fans but they both want victory.

Forget any Astana team tactics, do Lance fans really expect Contador to ride around whilst behind Lance on GC, this Tour route is very poor, very few mountain top finishes which suit Contador so he needs to take the opportunities when they come.

Back in the day, Lance would have blown everybody away today be he is clearly not at that level so they want to hold back the guy that can blow everybody away just so Lance can take yellow. Please wake up people.

How did Contadors attack disadvantage Astana today other than put himself in front of Lance, they still have the top positions on GC but the battle is for the leadership of the team. I truly believe if this were a tougher Tour, then Contador would blow Lance away but its is so poor, it will not be decided until Mont Ventoux.

For us cycling fans, we knew as soon as Lance announced his comeback with Astana, Contador should have left because they would shaft him and they are by coming up with a teamplan like today, lets ride tempo all day, WTF it clearly favoured Lance today and Contador wants to win the Tour so of course he is going to attack, this is what any fan wants, not just Astana riding tempo because they have the race sewn up already. Lance fans, not a clue.

Exactly. To think that Contador is going to simply roll over and not go for the win is ludicrous.
 
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I just don't get it, 3rd place is good. Second best on your team is a real accomplishment. The vitriol and anger about him being almost good enough to win is astonishing.....;)
 
Apr 9, 2009
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dadoorsron said:
Yeah you don't want to say he can't believe how lame of an attack cadel had going up an easy climb.

If you'd been following cycling in the past you'd know that Evans attacking repeatedly on a climb in the TDF is not only something that has never happened before but was quite noteworthy and ballsy in its own right because everyone knew that he HAD to do this or he might as well drop out of the race right now. But you don't know anything about this sport, as you continue to demonstrate.
 
Jun 26, 2009
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BikeCentric said:
Everyone that knows anything about cycling here knew that Cancellara was going to be dropped immediately the second the road turned upwards. Cancellara has nothign to do with the general classification in a Tour de France and his position on the road was a complete non-factor in anything Astana or any other GC contending team did. The fact that you even mention his name in the context of Astana's team tactics shows that you're an idiot. But we knew this from the moment you showed up on this board and said "hai guyz I've never ridden a bike before but I like Lance so I'm here to talk about how much I'd like to sniff his saddle all day and every day."


No my real name is Miguel Indurain I won the TDF 5 times and I know a lot more about cycling than you do. na na na na naaaa naaa

Isn't the Internet great. Everyone (using anonymous nicknames) claims their the genius and everyone else (also using anonymous nicknames) is a fool. Coming on and trash talking an anonymous Internet blogger's moniker is so amusing to see.
 
May 5, 2009
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BikeCentric said:
And after Contador missed the split Astana worked with Columbia in the front group to put time into him.

Again, something you'd know if you'd actually watched the race, had half a clue about cycling, and weren't a complete and total idiot. Now go away and never post here again.

Please, for the love of god, stop repeating yourself and telling him to go away.

The team made the decision to put time into the rest, knowing that AC was more than strong enough to make up what he was going to lose, but getting time for LA as he was the only contender in the split. Bruyneel ordered Popo and Zubeldia to pull. That point is argued, settled, and over with. Move on.
 

whiteboytrash

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Mar 17, 2009
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BikeCentric said:
The fact that you even mention his name in the context of Astana's team tactics shows that you're an idiot. But we knew this from the moment you showed up on this board and said "hai guyz I've never ridden a bike before but I like Lance so I'm here to talk about how much I'd like to sniff his saddle all day and every day."

That is gold. WBT likes. :)
 
Jun 18, 2009
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colwildcat said:
Look, you can all sit here and insult each other, call each other stupid, etc, but it appears that what will happen is what many of us thought all along. Contador will win this thing handily, Lance will most likely be on the podium, and then everyone can go on about their business. When the team gets blown up at the end of the season, we'll get the books that will explain each of their sides. Then, we can all Monday morning quarterback and see if our impressions were correct. But, the fact remains that none of us are in their heads, in the team car, or on the bus. So, let your opinions be your opinions, but enough with the condescension and the "I'm smarter than you" posts.

I agree. I don't understand why a good post has to end up with a "you're an idiot" paragraph at the end. Seems to be the rule rather than the exception in forums today.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Another interview with Bruyneel reveals the following. He denies that agreements had been made about the final kms of the stage with regard to attacking.

around 1:20

The stage will show who is the strongest. There were no specific instructions with regard to attacking

So when Armstrong claims that he didn't expect the attack because it wasn't according to the plan, it goes against the words of DS Bruyneel. :confused:
 
Jun 18, 2009
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Bala Verde said:
Another interview with Bruyneel reveals the following. He denies that agreements had been made about the final kms of the stage with regard to attacking.

around 1:20



So when Armstrong claims that he didn't expect the attack because it wasn't according to the plan, it goes against the words of DS Bruyneel. :confused:

Can you please translate?
 
Mar 17, 2009
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Bala Verde said:
Another interview with Bruyneel reveals the following. He denies that agreements had been made about the final kms of the stage with regard to attacking.

around 1:20



So when Armstrong claims that he didn't expect the attack because it wasn't according to the plan, it goes against the words of DS Bruyneel. :confused:

Of course Bruyneel would say no such thing as "slow down a bit". If they had, Lance et al would have found themselves 2+ minutes down at the pace they were going. Sure AG2r isn't a threat, but 2 minutes is still more than 6 seconds.
 

whiteboytrash

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Mar 17, 2009
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Bala Verde said:
Another interview with Bruyneel reveals the following. He denies that agreements had been made about the final kms of the stage with regard to attacking.

around 1:20



So when Armstrong claims that he didn't expect the attack because it wasn't according to the plan, it goes against the words of DS Bruyneel. :confused:

Wow Bruyneel speaks Dutch ? I thought he was American ? :confused:
 
May 7, 2009
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Thoughtforfood said:
Actually, that is even more impressive as it was not a steep gradient and he was able to gap and keep it. In that instance, the others like Schleck and Wiggins should have been able to catch him considering the grade. Very impressive indeed.


Adding to the impressive nature of this attack or counter-attack or whatever you wanna call it.. an acceleration off the front into a headwind is all that much more impressive. Having raced at my own level, I’ve found that it is easier to follow an attack into the headwind if you can get into the draft of the guy going out front first. A lot easier to follow the attacker than be the attacker into a headwind
 
Jun 26, 2009
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Bala Verde said:
Another interview with Bruyneel reveals the following. He denies that agreements had been made about the final kms of the stage with regard to attacking.

around 1:20



So when Armstrong claims that he didn't expect the attack because it wasn't according to the plan, it goes against the words of DS Bruyneel. :confused:

Your wrong. Contador said "screw you Astana, screw you JB, I'm going solo." Hope he has the power to go to Paris solo.

http://tour-de-france.velonews.com/...hot-across-the-bow-yellow-jersey-attack-falls

Alberto Contador just couldn’t help himself on the beyond-category steeps of the Arcalis summit high in the Pyrénées in Friday’s seventh stage.

The 26-year-old is a natural born climber and, when he sees a road turn uphill, he’s going to do one thing: attack, even if that means attacking Astana teammate Lance Armstrong and defying team orders.

“There were no instructions from the car (to attack),” said Astana team boss Johan Bruyneel. “We wanted to try to maintain our collective strength and wait for the attacks to come. Those attacks didn’t come.”

Astana was firmly in control in the decisive late stages of the 224km stage, throttling at the front of the pack, with six friendly jerseys among a group of about 20 halfway up the 10.6km Arcalis climb.

No one yet dared attacks against such superiority in numbers and Armstrong was poised to slip into the maillot jaune for the first time since 2005, starting the stage just 0.22 seconds behind Fabian Cancellara.

Yet Bruyneel was putting the brakes on the Astana train, even with Cancellara flagging off the back, because it’s too early in the race to have to carry the weight of the yellow jersey all the way to the Alps.

The Belgian director was telling the troops to ease the pace and allow Rinaldo Nocentini (Ag2r) to stay clear from the all-day breakaway and snag the maillot jaune instead.

But Contador had his own plan.

With just over 2km to go, Contador, who started the stage third overall at 19 seconds back, bolted out of the pack in a daring bid for the yellow jersey.

The acceleration came after the first opening jabs by Cadel Evans (Silence-Lotto) and Andy Schleck (Saxo Bank), two moves that Contador used as his trigger. Jurgen Van Den Broeck, one of Evans’ helpers, inexplicably attacked off the front and that was all that Contador needed.

Contador disappeared up the narrow switchbacks, leaving Armstrong to mark the wheels of the counter-attacks that never came.

Armstrong didn’t hide his disappointment when he said Contador’s acceleration wasn’t part of the team’s script for the day.

“It wasn’t really to the plan, I didn’t expect him to go with the plan, so that was no surprise,” Armstrong said. “It was windy, so it was hard to go alone. Like I said, I wasn’t surprised.“

Contador hammered alone and didn’t find any company. Andy Schleck tried to follow Contador, but he found the strong winds too heavy for his lanky frame and quickly decided to find refuge in the pack of about a dozen favorites.

“In my opinion, (Contador) had a little advantage with the cars and motorcycles in front of him. I was 50 meters behind and I had all the wind in my face,” Schleck said. “It’s not his mistake, but something the organization should look into.”

Armstrong lived up to his word and didn’t chase from behind, staying with the other favorites as he said he would even though the maillot jaune was there for the taking.

“I said all along, I have my obligations to the team,” Armstrong said. “When you have a teammate up the road, you just gotta stay on the wheel – that’s bike racing.”

Contador said he was responding to attacks from his rivals and was not trying to gap his teammates, but he admitted that the strong headwinds short-circuited his bid for yellow.

“We were waiting to see how the race unfolded and we saw Schleck and Evans moving, so I wanted to try. The time differences were small, but it’s good for what lies ahead,” Contador said. “In balance, this is good for the team. I don’t think this changes anything within the team.”

Contador’s gamble backfired and the spindly climber was stymied by fierce headwinds and fell six seconds short of taking yellow. Armstrong slipped into third at eight seconds back.

By attacking contrary to the team’s strategy, he publicly snubbed his nose at Armstrong and all but confirmed that speculation of behind-the-scenes division within the team is true.

Had Contador succeeded in grabbing yellow, he would be protected by the prestige and honor that comes with the race jersey. Now Armstrong will have no reason to hold back if he feels he has the legs to attack.
 

whiteboytrash

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Mar 17, 2009
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Bala Verde said:
So when Armstrong claims that he didn't expect the attack because it wasn't according to the plan, it goes against the words of DS Bruyneel. :confused:

On the EuroSport highlight show tonight Lance said before the stage he "expected Contador to attack" because he's getting jumpy and wants to assert himself in the race..... so I don't understand the post race comments.
 
Mar 17, 2009
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byu123 said:
Your wrong. Contador said "screw you Astana, screw you JB, I'm going solo." Hope he has the power to go to Paris solo.

http://tour-de-france.velonews.com/...hot-across-the-bow-yellow-jersey-attack-falls

Alberto Contador just couldn’t help himself on the beyond-category steeps of the Arcalis summit high in the Pyrénées in Friday’s seventh stage.

The 26-year-old is a natural born climber and, when he sees a road turn uphill, he’s going to do one thing: attack, even if that means attacking Astana teammate Lance Armstrong and defying team orders.

“There were no instructions from the car (to attack),” said Astana team boss Johan Bruyneel. “We wanted to try to maintain our collective strength and wait for the attacks to come. Those attacks didn’t come.”

Astana was firmly in control in the decisive late stages of the 224km stage, throttling at the front of the pack, with six friendly jerseys among a group of about 20 halfway up the 10.6km Arcalis climb.

No one yet dared attacks against such superiority in numbers and Armstrong was poised to slip into the maillot jaune for the first time since 2005, starting the stage just 0.22 seconds behind Fabian Cancellara.

Yet Bruyneel was putting the brakes on the Astana train, even with Cancellara flagging off the back, because it’s too early in the race to have to carry the weight of the yellow jersey all the way to the Alps.

The Belgian director was telling the troops to ease the pace and allow Rinaldo Nocentini (Ag2r) to stay clear from the all-day breakaway and snag the maillot jaune instead.

But Contador had his own plan.

With just over 2km to go, Contador, who started the stage third overall at 19 seconds back, bolted out of the pack in a daring bid for the yellow jersey.

The acceleration came after the first opening jabs by Cadel Evans (Silence-Lotto) and Andy Schleck (Saxo Bank), two moves that Contador used as his trigger. Jurgen Van Den Broeck, one of Evans’ helpers, inexplicably attacked off the front and that was all that Contador needed.

Contador disappeared up the narrow switchbacks, leaving Armstrong to mark the wheels of the counter-attacks that never came.

Armstrong didn’t hide his disappointment when he said Contador’s acceleration wasn’t part of the team’s script for the day.

“It wasn’t really to the plan, I didn’t expect him to go with the plan, so that was no surprise,” Armstrong said. “It was windy, so it was hard to go alone. Like I said, I wasn’t surprised.“

Contador hammered alone and didn’t find any company. Andy Schleck tried to follow Contador, but he found the strong winds too heavy for his lanky frame and quickly decided to find refuge in the pack of about a dozen favorites.

“In my opinion, (Contador) had a little advantage with the cars and motorcycles in front of him. I was 50 meters behind and I had all the wind in my face,” Schleck said. “It’s not his mistake, but something the organization should look into.”

Armstrong lived up to his word and didn’t chase from behind, staying with the other favorites as he said he would even though the maillot jaune was there for the taking.

“I said all along, I have my obligations to the team,” Armstrong said. “When you have a teammate up the road, you just gotta stay on the wheel – that’s bike racing.”

Contador said he was responding to attacks from his rivals and was not trying to gap his teammates, but he admitted that the strong headwinds short-circuited his bid for yellow.

“We were waiting to see how the race unfolded and we saw Schleck and Evans moving, so I wanted to try. The time differences were small, but it’s good for what lies ahead,” Contador said. “In balance, this is good for the team. I don’t think this changes anything within the team.”

Contador’s gamble backfired and the spindly climber was stymied by fierce headwinds and fell six seconds short of taking yellow. Armstrong slipped into third at eight seconds back.

By attacking contrary to the team’s strategy, he publicly snubbed his nose at Armstrong and all but confirmed that speculation of behind-the-scenes division within the team is true.

Had Contador succeeded in grabbing yellow, he would be protected by the prestige and honor that comes with the race jersey. Now Armstrong will have no reason to hold back if he feels he has the legs to attack.

I love how the attribute some nefarious plan to Contador without a single statement from him. Plenty of inneundo mixed with good-old fashion American sense of entitlement and you have an article like this.

Smart racing in Stage 3 (always take time from your rivals when you can), but terrible racing in Stage 7 (taking time on your rivals when you can). :eek:
 
Jun 18, 2009
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byu123 said:
Your wrong. Contador said "screw you Astana, screw you JB, I'm going solo." Hope he has the power to go to Paris solo.

<snip> a link works ok too.

Andrew Hood's been very much in LA's camp. Read his other stuff. Like you, he's quite upset at what happened.

I guess Bruyneel is a liar when he says the strongest man should win according to Hood.

It's game on. What's Astana gonna do? Give up on the race so AC doesn't win?

Again, AC is gone from Bruyneel after this year. We all know it. Bruyneel's to blame and I'm guessing he'll go after Evans given the Kudos he seems to get from LA. Remember, LA picked against his own team earlier this year and named Evans as the favorite. How's that for being a team player?
 
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