Official London Olympics Doping thread

[sniper]

Since the Olympics are not run by the ITF there is some significant uncertainty for any doping tennis player. You add in the warning from Fahey that these olympics will have tougher testing than in the past, and it is likely that you will see more than the usual number of withdrawals from the Olympics (as well as some sub standard performances as some athletes attempt to participate clean).

such as this one?
http://es.eurosport.yahoo.com/noticias/ferrer-se-despide-de-juegos-japonés-163735426.html

EDIT: (we might as well nominate the entire Spanish delegation, although they'll still get some medals later on.)

 

[Parrot23]

What next, lol? (Just looking at the masculinity, albeit it could be from birth and genetic; I don't know)

 

[Mellow Velo]

Yeah that Redgrave, knows nothing about performance. That they blew everyone away was human.

Again.
They were odds on favourites and unbeaten this year.
They won by 2 seconds, outside of any records.
Hardly the most unexpected result and nowhere near the most
"unbelievable" performance of the games.

But they were GB's first gold medal success: coincidence?

I see just two nations taking most of the doping speculation, here.
China: Who have won a lot, but have a huge population.
UK: Who have won very little, but have Wiggins.

 

[roundabout]

Hmm, GB seems to have good rowing traditions and good coaching.

Why couldn't women win a gold until now?

 

[sniper]

Again.
They were odds on favourites and unbeaten this year.
They won by 2 seconds, outside of any records.
Hardly the most unexpected result and nowhere near the most
"unbelievable" performance of the games.

But they were GB's first gold medal success: coincidence?

I see just two nations taking most of the doping speculation, here.
China: Who have won a lot, but have a huge population.
UK: Who have won very little, but have Wiggins.

To add to the speculation: could Spain's drop in performances be due to them trying to race clean? After all, any Spanish positive would damage Madrid's 2020 bid.

The question would then be: can cleanliness be imposed from above? Iow: could there have been some states person or body begging all Spanish athletes and/or federations to take it down a notch this year and be extra careful?
If this happened, it could reversely mean that Spain has been under some state sponsored doping regime.

 

[sniper]

Druggery! I think we figured that one out.

Why the billion hours of training per year? Why would a country with state supported swimmers, like China, not use less workload during athletes' early years, perhaps concentrating on form and technique, then put them in international competition when they are at their physical peak?

In Turning (or what's the English word?) we see pretty much the same phenomenon: turners peak very young.

What do Turning and Swimming have in common?
Both types of performances are very susceptible to doping? Well yeah, but cycling performances are also very susceptible to doping.
I assume the answer must somehow have to do with musculature, or with doping and musculature.

 

[slowspoke]

It is burnout. To be at Olympic level you start around 9/10 training four/five mornings a week. Its a combination of being able to get up early in the morning and do the druggery of following the black line day in day out. (boring training) It's a pretty boring lifestyle also, get up at 4am train for 2 or 3 hours, go to school, train in the afternoon, go home do some homework be in bed by 9. You can do that in your teenage years but by your early 20's most people have had enough and want a normal life.

Many swimmers haven't fully peaked, just cant handle the lifestyle anymore. Unless your winning medals at an Olympics there's not much money in it either.

This +10000000000000

 

[slowspoke]

It's not the fact she broke her PB, although I find anyone breaking it by that much strange. It's the fact she beat male swimmers, not Lochte who was "slowing down" but three other guys who were going flat out. It is very, very suspect.

World class swimmers, do not get chicked.

In my experience anything more the 3 seconds per year is suspect. Particularly at that level.

 

[slowspoke]

If it was simply burnout, wouldn't they just take it easier at first so that their mental peak coincided with their physical peak? You know, like in every other sport ever? No, there has to be an actual advantage for younger swimmers. It's been discussed here the past few days (stroke efficiency peaking at around 20 and going downhill afterwards, bone density being lower in your teens, what have you).

edit: what BroDeal said.

In answer to you both, in swimming you ARE competing at the top level from 14-15 in both male and female. I was on the european circuit from then and I was not THAT good.

 

[sartoris]

To add to the speculation: could Spain's drop in performances be due to them trying to race clean? After all, any Spanish positive would damage Madrid's 2020 bid.

The question is: can cleanliness be imposed from above? Iow: could there have been some states person or body telling all Spanish athletes and/or federations to take it down a notch this year and be extra careful?
If this happened, it could reversely mean that Spain has been under some state sponsored doping regime.

I didn't get that. You mean Nadal at Roland Garros, or Purito in the Giro or all the victories by Valverde, LuisLe or Samuel Sánchez, or the Football Spanish team winning again the Euro Cup, or Fernando Alonso leading the F1 world championship, or Lorenzo and Pedrosa, Márquez and Espargaró, Viñales and Salóm topping all three categories of Moto GP, or real Madrid and Barcelona being the best two football teams (arguably) at the momet, or Mireia Belmonte, who's just won a silver medal in the 200 butterfly at the Olympics. or...? Ah wait, you mean Contador, who's a cheat, dontya?

 

[hrotha]

To add to the speculation: could Spain's drop in performances be due to them trying to race clean? After all, any Spanish positive would damage Madrid's 2020 bid.

The question would then be: can cleanliness be imposed from above? Iow: could there have been some states person or body begging all Spanish athletes and/or federations to take it down a notch this year and be extra careful?
If this happened, it could reversely mean that Spain has been under some state sponsored doping regime.

Spain has indeed been under some state sponsored regime, from the late 80s to at least Barcelona 92. Catching up to other countries, probably. Anyway, I wouldn't read too much into the abysmal performances of Spain so far, simply because Spain's results have always been very average after 1992 (and horrible before 1992). We've had terrible results in track & field for years now, both at European and World championships, and we rely on rare swimming talent to pop up almost out of nowhere because there's no proper program in place to develop that talent, and that's where many of the medals are won. Lack of funding can have an immense impact on less professionalized sports, which are mostly the ones that give out their medals first. We still get the odd good judoka here and there, but that's a sport with a stronger tradition in Spain compared to other minor ones. Spain's strengths are team sports (basketball, handball, hockey and waterpolo, mostly), sailing, judo, cycling, tennis, some athletics endurance competitions, and not much else.

At any rate, Madrid 2020 can hardly be the reason for any lack of doping. Madrid has been a bidder for the games for like a decade now (they were in the race to host the very games we're watching now, and they lost to Rio for the 2016 Games). I suppose theoretically it's possible that they got a warning, "no more scandals or you're definitely out", but I doubt it.

In answer to you both, in swimming you ARE competing at the top level from 14-15 in both male and female. I was on the european circuit from then and I was not THAT good.

Yes, but why are they competing at the top level from 14-15 instead of taking it easy like in most other sports?

In football you can start competing even before 14-15, but it doesn't really get serious until you're around 16 and in a big club. But swimmers live the full pro life by the time they're 15, unless they've already been weeded out. Why? Why do they start competing at the top level so early? It has to be because teenagers get some physiological advantage; otherwise it would be silly to have them burn out before they reach their physical peak.

 

[slowspoke]

Yes, but why are they competing at the top level from 14-15 instead of taking it easy like in most other sports?

In football you can start competing even before 14-15, but it doesn't really get serious until you're around 16 and in a big club. But swimmers live the full pro life by the time they're 15, unless they've already been weeded out. Why? Why do they start competing at the top level so early? It has to be because teenagers get some physiological advantage; otherwise it would be silly to have them burn out before they reach their physical peak.

This is only my experience/opinion, what i saw (and I don't have any scientific evidence to back this up) but I watched a skinny 15 year old Peter van den Hoogenband DESTROY the mens 100m Freestyle and win by a second in a European Grand Prix meeting. Talent, rather than brawn, there definitely. So training full time at that age works. And frankly, if you're not training that much that young, you won't be good enough to progress, qualify for National squads, get funding etc. Because everyone else is!
Is it the right approach? I don't know - but that's the game. Its a major sport and there is a lot of competition. Remember as well the Grand Prixs start on a Thursday and go to Sunday night, so you left on the Wednesday and got back Monday night. I know I had the worst attendance at school missing 50+ days a year. So I sacrificed a lot of my Schooling as well. But when everyone else does it becomes normalised. But you don't get to this level in ANY sport by being normal!

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

In football you can start competing even before 14-15, but it doesn't really get serious until you're around 16 and in a big club. But swimmers live the full pro life by the time they're 15, unless they've already been weeded out. Why? Why do they start competing at the top level so early? It has to be because teenagers get some physiological advantage; otherwise it would be silly to have them burn out before they reach their physical peak.

I stand by my theory: Some 100 years ago, a coach begun to train teens to the maximum and had success in swimming and gymnastics. Then everybody tried to copy that blueprint. Then that tradition never changed, since it was given to the following generations of coaches. A "nice" side effect for some sick Sandusky like coaches came with it: They abused/abuse young girls & boys (see here: http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=18052).

 

[D-Queued]

What next, lol? (Just looking at the masculinity, albeit it could be from birth and genetic; I don't know)

Oh dear. Ok, I get it now.

They are bigger than I was...

Dave.

 

[Clemson Cycling]

I am convinced that the TT was a joke today. What does it say about the current anti-doping procedures at the Olympics?

That is where Hamilton got busted in 2004

 

[BroDeal]

That is where Hamilton got busted in 2004

The only reason Hamilton was caught was a new test and, for an unknown reason, he ignored the warning from the UCI. He beat the Olympics finding but then, again for an unknown reason, went to the Vuelta.

 

[sittingbison]

Here's a gem, see if you can spot the problem:

"FINA released a statement on Wednesday addressing "insinuations" related to Ye's performances, saying she had undergone four drugs test in the past 12 months. Following recent comments reported in the media, FINA would like to clearly state that there is no factual basis to support this kind of insinuations related to the performances of the Chinese swimmer, Shiwen Ye. This athlete has fulfilled all of the FINA Doping Control obligations, having been tested on four occasions in the last twelve months, including twice before the Chinese Olympic Trials in 2012"

 

[Blakeslee]

I have a hard time believing these swimmers are racing clean. Most of them have these bodies with an incredible physique and astonishingly wide shoulders, they almost look like cartoon characters. I'm not sure it is possible to have bodies like these without some artificial assistance.

It is also troubling how many new world and Olympic records are being set. Records like these ought to be difficult to break, something you see once in awhile and not something almost routine as it has been in these games. I'm not sure the usual arguments about better technology (swimsuits, high tech pools etc) and better training methods are enough to account for this.

The statement by FINA defending Ye is not very encouraging. Four tests in a year is not nearly enough.

 

[Cavalier]

Why do governing bodies seriously like to try and kid people that 4 doping tests in 12 months is remotely an acceptable quantity in fighting doping? 1 every 90 days or so is ridiculous. You'd have to hit the lottery to catch someone that way.

 

[Boeing]

is there a thread for the gender checks that went down before the games started?

a little more than a hand full I tell you.


is this a clinic topic?

 

[Dr.Sahl]

Why do governing bodies seriously like to try and kid people that 4 doping tests in 12 months is remotely an acceptable quantity in fighting doping? 1 every 90 days or so is ridiculous. You'd have to hit the lottery to catch someone that way.

Because they are not interested in getting rid of doping, it ruins their own goals and the avg person don't give a **** about it.. they just wanna see x person from x country win x medal.

^^ the honest truth.

 

[sittingbison]

hehe at 4 tests per year Lance would have had 80 tests 1990-2010

So Ye, has had 4 tests inthe last year, including 2 before the Chinese trials and presumably 2 now for winning both IMs. That leaves how many for the other 360 days? And how many OOC??

 

[BroDeal]

is there a thread for the gender checks that went down before the games started?

a little more than a hand full I tell you.

I would not want to be on junk check duty for badminton. Evidently those two blokes are the Chinese women's team.

 

[sittingbison]

I would not want to be on junk check duty for badminton. Evidently those two blokes were the Chinese women's team...

There you go, fixed

they were disqualified for cheating hehe

 

[imaz52]

Reading la Repubblica this morning I came across this report on "genetical doping".

http://www.repubblica.it/speciali/o...01/news/doping_genetico-40147339/?ref=HRER3-1

It speaks of two very famous athletes, one a footballer and the other a cyclist who have used genetical modification transmitted intentionally by means of a carrier virus.

Presumably the footballer is that one from Latin America who plays for a Spanish team but the cyclist?

As for the Badminton expulsions I feel very sorry for the players concerned. The format was fùcked up and this was bound to happen...