Official thread - TdF Stage 4: Team Time Trial (Montpellier - Montpellier 38 km)

[dgodave]

Dropped riders do their own time...

Thanks... thats what I thought... but theyre always changing TTT rules... I can hardly keep up.
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[Bala Verde]

Can someone explain it to me?

The time of the fifth rider crossing the line sets the time for the 'group', as an official result for the squad. Nonetheles, if a rider gets dropped, ie the 9th that couldn't hold someone's wheel, he'll have his individual time recorded in the books.

Compared to other years, now the real time counts. Other years teams were ranked according to their times and awarded predetermined times to lose/bonus seconds to win. So whereas team #1, #2, #3 could have 0, 30s, 60s loss, now real times count and they could be at 0, 1m13 and 2m29...

 

[dgodave]

Can someone explain it to me?



Is this in fact how it's scored? Does everyone on the team get the same time? What if a rider gets dropped?


The cyclingnews site says, "Unlike the last team time trials in 2004 and 2005, where time losses were determined by each squad's placing, the time recorded on the line will be the deciding factor." I don't understand.

Thanks

Last year, each teams placing (1st, 2nd, etc) earned a fixed time loss. 0 for first, -20 sec for 2nd, -30 for 3rd, etc... or whatever it was... cant remember. This prevented any team from losing gobs of time, as the fixed losses were less than actual losses.
.
Or was it actual times down to Xth place, then fixed times assigned thereafter?.... jeez, I'm probly sowing coonfusion.
.
This year, the actual time of each team's first 5 will count. So if the 2nd place team is 1:05 slower than 1st place, thats exactly what they all lose. (And anyone dropped will lose even more). And if some team comes in 5:34 down, they lose all of that.
.

 

[El Hammermeister]

Thanks, guys

I'm getting the idea.
It's really pretty straightforward. I'm glad they're doing it this way!

 

[VeloBabe]

Here's a link to a start list for the TTT that includes US Eastern times for any of you in the US who are as bad at the time conversion as I am! ;-)

http://www.cyclingfans.com/node/412

Babe

 

[Seth Bullock]

Any predictions for an average speed?

 

[auscyclefan94]

Here's a link to a start list for the TTT that includes US Eastern times for any of you in the US who are as bad at the time conversion as I am! ;-)

http://www.cyclingfans.com/node/412

Babe

On tv we were told that Saxo Bank were starting last.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

The starting order follows the team ranking I believe.

Therefore I guess your TV is lying(which it does probably very often anyway).

 

[patswana]

1. Columbia HTC
2. Saxo Bank @ 15 sec
3. Dopestana @ 20 sec

 

[BroDeal]

I just received the latest info. This is what will happen.

Early in the time trial Astana will split into two teams. Armschlong, Leecheimer, and Popoffthebackabich will strike out on their own. Contador, Zubeldia, Paulinho, and Muravyev will form their own group. Kloden and Rast will be left in the middle. They will think for a moment, consider not playing sides and going it alone, but Klodi will ultimately decide he wants to ride for Vino next year. He will join Contador's group. Rast will then go with Klodi since he won't fancy speaking Texan the rest of the Tour if he sides against Kloden.

The two groups will battle it out on the road, often coming to blows when they get near enough. Zubeldia will puncture and the team car, diven by Bruyneel, will refuse to stop. The contest will eventually end in an old fashioned cyclist slap fight that looks more suited to the streets of San Fran. When replays are endlessly run on ESPN and the Daily Show, the rest of us have to stop riding for two weeks because of the laughter and taunts from passing cars.

 

[auscyclefan94]

I just received the latest info. This is what will happen.

Early in the time trial Astana will split into two teams. Armschlong, Leecheimer, and Popoffthebackabich will strike out on their own. Contador, Zubeldia, Paulinho, and Muravyev will form their own group. Kloden and Rast will be left in the middle. They will think for a moment, consider not playing sides and going it alone, but Klodi will ultimately decide he wants to ride for Vino next year. He will join Contador's group. Rast will then go with Klodi since he won't fancy speaking Texan the rest of the Tour if he sides against Kloden.

The two groups will battle it out on the road, often coming to blows when they get near enough. Zubeldia will puncture and the team car, diven by Bruyneel, will refuse to stop. The contest will eventually end in an old fashioned cyclist slap fight that looks more suited to the streets of San Fran. When replays are endlessly run on ESPN and the Daily Show, the rest of us have to stop riding for two weeks because of the laughter and taunts from passing cars.

That is phucking hilarious...LMFAO. Hope it happens

 

[Izoard]

I think Bala Verde nailed it wrt the TTT effort being different from an ITT effort. I think the top 6 are:
- Garmin or Columbia, separated by 1-2 sec
- Saxo-Bank
- Astana (good ITT'ers, not as hot in the TTT)
- S-L or Liqi. (both better than given credit for, especially S-L)

This being a short distance, I think the top 6 will be within 1 minute.

 

[callhenpen]

any word on the weather tomorrow? It sounded today like the wind could be far worse tomorrow. What impact would such a huge wind have on the results?

 

[Cobblestones]

any word on the weather tomorrow? It sounded today like the wind could be far worse tomorrow. What impact would such a huge wind have on the results?

Winds can split up split teams (see Astana) which leads to what BroDeal described so well in great detail.

 

[amp300]

1. Columbia- hell, what haven't they won this year, like the damn yankee's of a few years ago
2. Garmin- losing by less than a second because unfortunately that seems to be their trend
3. Astana (team Alberto) Caisse D'pargne rolls off the start ramp and waits on the side until astana goes, and picks up alberto and rides for him the entire way
4. Saxo Bank- Fabian is the man
5. Astana (Team Lance)- He takes time to spread his frozen genes to a random mildly attractive French bystander who will then birth a baby that will generate a 'natural level' hematocrit of 78.


I was driving for four hours today through the desert, I had way too much time to think about this.

edit: **** brodeal, once again i didn't read the whole thread. Very accurate.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I'm thinking Katusha.

Though BroDeal or Amp300 may have things correct.

 

[Bainreese]

#1. I don't believe Astana is as split as everyone makes out. Certainly some are taking a bath in hyperbole for tongue-in-cheek purposes only, but there is a lot being made of the inner turmoil. Let's forget AC and LA for a moment and consider everyone else. Most of these guys are super doms at best and regular doms at worst. Levi and Kloden, while certainly capable of putting in high overall GC placements, will not have much personal aspirations. Both have had their chance to be the #1 Grand Tour guy on a team and both have failed to produce more than brief and unrepeatable results. I think these guys know their place and whatever JB's tactics are...whether it be to stupidly support LA for overall or AC for overall....they will be taking direction from JB and not from LA. They have carriers that will not end after this season and unless they are really stupid...they will know that politics within a team will kill them if they decide to go rogue against JB.

#2. I'm not sure I would put too much stock in JB's comments about not wanting to go after the yellow jersey. What I am sure of is that his team is after the TTT victory. JB is as much a competitor as LA and they have both targeted the TTT in the past as a goal in the Tour. They have also taken the yellow jersey in the TTT at least twice if my memory serves me correct and not bothered defending it both times.

#3. Given the above two and the fact that Astana has the benefit of starting last...which means they can pace their effort to whatever their end goal is(if just to win but not take yellow...that's also possible depending on the effort of the yellow's team) ...I believe that those who do not have Astana in their top three are simply playing a game of wishful thinking.

#4. One person I really haven't seen mentioned as a factor for Columbia in tomorrow's TTT is George Hincapie. He may not be known for his TT abilities, but he has always put in a very good performance and been one of the powerhouses on any team he's on when it comes to the TTT. He will also add to Columbia's game tomorrow. True...Columbia did put a hard effort in today in order to keep that break over the final two dozen kms, but all in all that is a pretty short duration of max effort for a pro at this level and given that tomorrow's TTT is shorter(only 39), it makes the effort today less of a factor. Less, not nil.

__________________

There are a lot of factors to take into consideration in a TTT and at least 1/3 of them we'll never be aware of because they happen internally within a team. The best thing I think we can say about stage 3 and eventually now stage 4, is that they have and will give us plenty to discuss and ponder. That alone makes for a good Tour in my book.

P.S. I apologize in advance for the numbering of the points. It helps me as much as the reader organize my thoughts.

 

[patswana]

Columbia did put a hard effort in today in order to keep that break over the final two dozen kms

While I agree that Columbia did ride hard to make the break, it's not like the other contenders who were chasing had it easy.

 

[unsheath]

Armschlong, Leecheimer, and Popoffthebackabich.

Hahaha! Popoffthebackabich! That's brilliant. It's now my favourite nickname of all.

 

[Ninety5rpm]

Astana
Saxobank 1-2 minutes behind Astana
Highroad about one minute behind Saxobank (2-3 mins behinds Astana)
Garmin about one minute Saxobank (3-4 mins behind Astana)
Silence-Lotto (Cadel) will lose at least 4 mins to Astana, perhaps as much as 6 minutes.

 

[BroDeal]

Astana
Saxobank 1-2 minutes behind Astana
Highroad about one minute behind Saxobank (2-3 mins behinds Astana)
Garmin about one minute Saxobank (3-4 mins behind Astana)
Silence-Lotto (Cadel) will lose at least 4 mins to Astana, perhaps as much as 6 minutes.

I hope you are joking. Those gaps are completely unreleastic. Do you expect FdJ to come in twenty minutes down?

 

[531Pro]

Astana
Saxobank 1-2 minutes behind Astana
Highroad about one minute behind Saxobank (2-3 mins behinds Astana)
Garmin about one minute Saxobank (3-4 mins behind Astana)
Silence-Lotto (Cadel) will lose at least 4 mins to Astana, perhaps as much as 6 minutes.

You might be closer if you divide your guestimated times by five.

 

[Grater]

1. Columbia
2. Garmin +4 seconds
3. Astana +12 seconds
4. Liquigas +30 seconds
5. Saxo Bank +38 seconds
6. Cevelo +48 seconds
7. Milram +57 seconds
8. ?
9. ?
10. ?
11. Silence Lotto +1:56
Last: FDJ +3.57

 

[auscyclefan94]

1. Columbia
2. Garmin +4 seconds
3. Astana +12 seconds
4. Liquigas +30 seconds
5. Saxo Bank +38 seconds
6. Cevelo +48 seconds
7. Milram +57 seconds
8. ?
9. ?
10. ?
11. Silence Lotto +1:56
Last: FDJ +3.57

I personally think this will the result:
1. Astana
2.Garmin
3. Columbia
4. Saxo Bank
5. Silence Lotto (hopefully, but do have some good roleurs/tt'ers in their team
6.Liquigas
7. Rabobank
9. Cervelo
10. Milram
11-20 The rest...
- The top 3 teams won't be separated by only seconds and either teams could win.

 

[Grater]

A little run down on the TTT.

The TTT is a different discipline. No matter how many good TT guys you have in your team, it means jack. Teams need to train specificially long and hard for the TTT. Garmin and Columbia specialise in the discipline. Garmin are desperate for a result. Garmin want revenge on Columbia.

After yesterday I don't know if Columbia will be strong enough. They would have used up a lot of energy. HOWEVER, they got help and the chasers had to do a lot of work to.

Columbia also have won the two TTT's this year. That tells you something. If you don't have the team cohesion (Astana clearly don't), you won't win a TTT.

The Big 3

Garmin

Bradley Wiggins
Christian Vandevelde
Ryder Hesjedal
David Zabriskie
David Millar
Danny Pate
Tyler Farrar
Julian Dean
Martijn Maaskant

Columbia

Tony Martin
Bert Grabsch
George Hincapie
Michael Rogers
Kim Kirchen
Maxime Monfort
Bernhard Eisel
Mark Renshaw
Mark Cavendish

Astana

Alberto Contador
Levi Leipheimer
Andreas Kloden
Lance Armstrong
Sergio Paulinho
Yaroslav Popovych
Gregory Rast
Haimar Zubeldia
Dmitriy Muravyev

Okay!

Astana do look like they will be hard to beat, but have they practiced? Levi and Lance were in the states and the rest of the team were in Europe and this team doesn't work well together. To win a TTT, you need to be unified. Work together. Have that team cohesion. Astana don't have that.

Columbia showed the right move yesterday by dropping Grabsch back to rest him for today. Columbia showed yesterday they have the team cohesion. Providing Cav sticks with them, he can help them in short bursts. Yesterday Columbia showed that they have the motor that no other team has. They are going to be hard to beat. Columbia have practiced this discipline a lot and have already won both TTT's this year.

Garmin have also practiced this discipline a lot and they do have the firepower as Columbia. They might be looking for revenge. The only thing not on Columbia's side is what happened yesterday. They worked hard and may be spent.

I don't believe it. Columbia are the strongest team in the world at the moment in regards to stage wins and flat stages. This course is technical. Too much for the Astana men.

Tony Martin was one rider that wasn't doing much work in the lead pack after the gap formed I think you will find.

Tony Martin could be in yellow after today. Columbia know they are on the verge of carrying yellow again. To carry green and yellow is what they want. The sponsors will be laughing. You don't know how bad they do want yellow.

After today, if they win this time trial and get enough time to put Martin in yellow, they will carry.

Yellow Jersey
Green Jersey
White Jersey

Perhaps Polka Dot they will look at on stage 5 too. (they will aim for Polka dot tomorrow. They will make sure a break doesn't get away until after the first climb where Martin can take maximum points to claim it.

Columbia will be highly motivated today. They are on the verge of repeating last year. Motivation is the key here. If they don't win the stage, they will want to put Martin in yellow so they will stay close to Astana, if not beat them and they will definately do saxo bank by more than 33 seconds and they will.

Yes, Columbia are here for stage wins, BUT, they can repeat Kirchen last year with Martin. I know I would prefer to have those 3 jersey's than Green and White. And they can still set Cavendish up for a sprint tomorrow anyway if they so wish.