Official Valverde thread.

[Benotti69]

Wind changed direction and Valverde had a tailwind all the way.......

 

[SeriousSam]

relax everyone, it's not like he beat tony martin. he will lose minutes in the ITT in the tour.

 

[BYOP88]

relax everyone, it's not like he beat tony martin. he will lose minutes in the ITT in the tour.

Nah the Spanish national ITT jersey gives you an extra 100 watts.

 

[Benotti69]

Nah the Spanish national ITT jersey gives you an extra 100 watts.

And the German national ITT jersey ensures you crash.,,,,,,,,,,

 

[thehog]

And the German national ITT jersey ensures you crash.,,,,,,,,,,

Lowering your headstem gives you 200 watts.

 

[weeniebeenie]

I am truly sorry that i forgot what st. Jonathan of Vaughters said.

Obviously. That's exactly what he said. Or not. But it's still funny if you quote him inaccurately.

 

[Gung Ho Gun]

Are you saying Valverde belmonte was on low octane stuff before?

I believe he was for a few years, compared to his 2003-2005 stuff
The Valverde who got dropped in the Tour mountains in 2007 and 2008 was not the same guy who beat Armstrong on Courchevel imo

 

[Walkman]

Is piti the most obvious doper in the peloton?

Always over achieving when competing in the Vuelta compared to the Tour. He is crushing his Tour form so far and the Tour was his main objective, it's laughable!

Is it that much easier to dope in Spain? I know he is spanish so I guess he has all the infrastructure in place do run a more sophisticated program than during the Tour but it that the whole truth? Or is he more scared of getting popped in France?

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Valverde is a doper imo.

But I don't see the overall level in the Vuelta being particularly high at this point. Slow climbing etc.

Lets see how ridiculous it gets over the weekend.

 

[SeriousSam]

No the most obvious, no.

I do think being one of Spain's best and most successful riders, and having a lot of influence and power there, helps with fooling the testers.

 

[SafeBet]

Is piti the most obvious doper in the peloton?

Maybe not the most obvious but surely in the top tier.

 

[BigMac]

Is piti the most obvious doper in the peloton?

Always over achieving when competing in the Vuelta compared to the Tour. He is crushing his Tour form so far and the Tour was his main objective, it's laughable!

Is it that much easier to dope in Spain? I know he is spanish so I guess he has all the infrastructure in place do run a more sophisticated program than during the Tour but it that the whole truth? Or is he more scared of getting popped in France?

It does not really matter if the Tour was his main objective. It has been for a few years now, but he always fails there (not always his fault, true), or in other words, performs better in the Vuelta. I believe he's never at his best in France, no matter how much he aims at it, for whatever reason (not necessarily doping), he seems to reach his best GT form in Spain. Perhaps it has to do with his consistency the entire year and how he races more leading up to the Tour, although this time it was a rather soft and secondary calendar. He was never impressive in France and I don't think it has to do with doping. I also believe home-factor has something to do with it, as he is not the only spaniard who underpeforms in the Tour and does quite well in the Vuelta. And, on the other hand, there's the french who are impressive in their homeland but not so much in Spain.

 

[happychappy]

as he is not the only spaniard who underpeforms in the Tour and does quite well in the Vuelta. And, on the other hand, there's the french who are impressive in their homeland but not so much in Spain.

Tearing it up all year then getting 4th at TDF is underperforming? Okay

 

[BigMac]

Tearing it up all year then getting 4th at TDF is underperforming? Okay

Regarding the Tour. Compared to the expectations/the field left and how he then performs in the Vuelta, I'd say yes. But it was more for the purpose of illustration.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Is piti the most obvious doper in the peloton?

Always over achieving when competing in the Vuelta compared to the Tour. He is crushing his Tour form so far and the Tour was his main objective, it's laughable!

Is it that much easier to dope in Spain? I know he is spanish so I guess he has all the infrastructure in place do run a more sophisticated program than during the Tour but it that the whole truth? Or is he more scared of getting popped in France?

The Vuelta often has fewer multi-mountain stage where he has suffered more in recent years, a slower average speed than the Tour which means riders are coming to the finales more fresh, and more short- and mid-length steep climbs where he's just about the best - short punchy climbs are something he's very strong on, and mid-length steep ramps mean that gaps are often small enough for him to be able to use his sprint to great effect at the end, after all the sprint at the top of the mountain has been a Valverde thing for years.

He's a doper, and a pretty obvious one, for sure, but the most obvious? Nah.

Mirsamad Pourseyedi is the most obvious. There's also Chris Horner, Davide Rebellin, Mick Rogers and Rui Sousa to think about who would be up there at least on a par with Valverde, I would argue more obvious, and that's without going into the debate on the forum's favourite punching bag either.

 

[del1962]

Regarding the Tour. Compared to the expectations/the field left and how he then performs in the Vuelta, I'd say yes. But it was more for the purpose of illustration.

The reason he is better at the Vuelta than the tour is the tour is the race where riders in general aim their season around, I doubt his form is better now, just the competition not as good. Neither Froome or Contador are near the form they would have been at the tour, Nibali is not here and neither are Bardet or Peraud, Pinot was also on a different level in the tour than the Vuelta.

 

[BigMac]

The reason he is better at the Vuelta than the tour is the tour is the race where riders in general aim their season around, I doubt his form is better now, just the competition not as good. Neither Froome or Contador are near the form they would have been at the tour, Nibali is not here and neither are Bardet or Peraud, Pinot was also on a different level in the tour than the Vuelta.

Well, yes to all accounts plus what Libertine wrote. I'll trade 'underpreforming' in the Tour with 'underachieving', I think it's the correct word. Anyway, point being, the Vuelta has always been is favourite Grand Tour soil, and him performing better in Spain than in France has hardly anything to do with doping.

 

[del1962]

Well, yes to all accounts plus what Libertine wrote. I'll trade 'underpreforming' in the Tour with 'underachieving', I think it's the correct word. Anyway, point being, the Vuelta has always been is favourite Grand Tour soil, and him performing better in Spain than in France has hardly anything to do with doping.

I never said it was due to doping (at least not currently - obviously he had to miss a tour when he couldn't race in Italy because of past doping), however I think it is more to do with weaker fields at the Vuelta.

 

[BigMac]

I never said it was due to doping (at least not currently - obviously he had to miss a tour when he couldn't race in Italy because of past doping), however I think it is more to do with weaker fields at the Vuelta.

I know, I know. I was agreeing with you. The 'point' part was to the original poster of such idea.

 

[DFA123]

I'm not sure Valverde did peak for the Tour this year or in most previous years. Movistar (and the previous Spanish sponsors) probably gain more exposure from Vuelta success - when the stages are on the main national television channel for two hours every day.

I can't see that a top form Valverde would finish behind Pinot and Peraud. Unless, perhaps the Tour was his main objective this year, but he took his foot off the gas once Nibali got an unassailable lead.

 

[del1962]

I'm not sure Valverde did peak for the Tour this year or in most previous years. Movistar (and the previous Spanish sponsors) probably gain more exposure from Vuelta success - when the stages are on the main national television channel for two hours every day.

I can't see that a top form Valverde would finish behind Pinot and Peraud. Unless, perhaps the Tour was his main objective this year, but he took his foot off the gas once Nibali got an unassailable lead.

I think he did peak for the tour, that is why Quintana did the Giro and was to be leader at the Vuelta, if Bardet and Peraud had come into the Vuelta with tour preperations they would be right up there.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I'm not sure Valverde did peak for the Tour this year or in most previous years. Movistar (and the previous Spanish sponsors) probably gain more exposure from Vuelta success - when the stages are on the main national television channel for two hours every day.

I can't see that a top form Valverde would finish behind Pinot and Peraud. Unless, perhaps the Tour was his main objective this year, but he took his foot off the gas once Nibali got an unassailable lead.

The team's previous sponsors were Caisse d'Epargne, who are French and so the Tour was always of major importance to them.

 

[Walkman]

It does not really matter if the Tour was his main objective. It has been for a few years now, but he always fails there (not always his fault, true), or in other words, performs better in the Vuelta. I believe he's never at his best in France, no matter how much he aims at it, for whatever reason (not necessarily doping), he seems to reach his best GT form in Spain. Perhaps it has to do with his consistency the entire year and how he races more leading up to the Tour, although this time it was a rather soft and secondary calendar. He was never impressive in France and I don't think it has to do with doping. I also believe home-factor has something to do with it, as he is not the only spaniard who underpeforms in the Tour and does quite well in the Vuelta. And, on the other hand, there's the french who are impressive in their homeland but not so much in Spain.

To the first three bolded parts, how could it be anything other than doping?

To the fourth bolded and cursive part; 2005 Tour? Beating Armstrong, Basso, Vino, Ullrich and Rasmussen on the first mountain top finish is pretty good if you ask me.

The french are impressive because their main goal is the Tour and then at the Vuelta they are tired, i.e. Pinot this year. Probably because they are clean.

 

[Tonton]

To the first three bolded parts, how could it be anything other than doping?

To the fourth bolded and cursive part; 2005 Tour? Beating Armstrong, Basso, Vino, Ullrich and Rasmussen on the first mountain top finish is pretty good if you ask me.

The french are impressive because their main goal is the Tour and then at the Vuelta they are tired, i.e. Pinot this year. Probably because they are clean.

+1

I hope that the last part and the last sentence of your post will stand the test of time and B sample testing.

 

[hrotha]

How could it be anything other than doping? Are you kidding? Take a step back, look at the parcours of the Tour and then at that of the Vuelta. Compare them. Note the different distances covered and real mountains climbed.

It'd be perfectly reasonable for a clean rider to be able to be a contender at the Vuelta while not being good enough at the Tour.

Valverde is a disgraceful unrepentant doper, but it so happens he could never perform at his best at the Tour even in the mid to late 00s, before his suspension, and when ASO wasn't very hostile to doping.

Because it's not that he isn't at his best in France (Dauphiné, anyone?); he's simply not able to do better at the Tour.