Teams & Riders Official Wout Van Aert thread

[Peyroteo94]

In relation to Ayuso, you seem to consider it essential that a rider fulfils his duties in support of a leader.
In relation to van Aert, you seem to disregard a remarkable level of such support.

I'm struggling to see the consistency.

You are comparing apples with oranges. Ayuso criticizes his team for not working well for him (like in TA) but he doesn't work for a way better rider and undisputed leader like Pogacar was in the Tour (I'm not even talking about this Giro where there is a argument to be made that Del Toro lost the race because UAE was protecting Ayuso).
Other argument is (and I already said this many times in this forum): guys like WVA should be free, they are too good to be domestiques. If his performances are great when he is in domestique duties, it's not hard to imagine what he can do when he has free rides (Ventoux win, gravel stage, Vuelta 2024, etc). No one can convince me WVA will be remember for how good he was as a domestique than how he was always second, third, fourth, etc when he was racing to win. Poulidor is remembered as the eternal second for example and this is his legacy in 20 years. I don't have any doubt.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

For your own legacy, it isn't.
Tell me, after his MSR and SB wins in 2020, did you think his most legendary performances would be working for his teammates (I can add that stage win where he rode Vingegaard off his wheel)? If this isn't underwhelming, what it is?
Riders like WVA should be THE team leader, not the best domestique (because he is due to his insane versatility and ability).

I don't accept the principle that one's own legacy is the only thing that matters. He is team leader in the stages in which he has genuine goals that are not in conflict with a team member who has a better chance: he is one of the best team helpers, and willing to be so, in other stages.

Most of us see that as something to be commended.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

You are comparing apples with oranges.

No, I'm comparing the standard by which you treat one rider to that by which you treat another.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

For your own legacy, it isn't.

And there was me thinking that teams employed riders to work for the team's goals, when it turns out that all along they are merely paying the rider for the privilege of having their name attached to his individual successes.

 

[Wyndbrook]

Well we all now know what life was like for Wout in the Giro.

An empty bottle of ketchup.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I don't accept the principle that one's own legacy is the only thing that matters. He is team leader in the stages in which he has genuine goals that are not in conflict with a team member who has a better chance: he is one of the best team helpers, and willing to be so, in other stages.

Most of us see that as something to be commended.

Isn't this a forum to share our personal view of cycling? Or I'm not allowed to have a different opinion? For me (and history shows that), domestiques are not remembered at all (very few are), their legacy is not remembered for their work to other riders (I challenge anyone who just started watching cycling right now or 5 years ago, to say who is, for example, Vanendert without going to search). Is Ullrich remembered for working to Riis in 96? Or Cancellara to Andy, doing that incredible ride in 2010? I don't think so. Riders with WVA's ability, with a big caliber are not remembered for what he did two days ago.

 

[Rackham]

Isn't this a forum to share how personal view of cycling? Or I'm not allowed to have a different opinion? For me (and history shows that), domestiques are not remembered at all (very few are), their legacy is not remembered for their work to other riders (I challenge anyone who just started watching cycling right now or 5 years ago, to say who is, for example, Vanendert without going to search).

I challenge anyone to go on social media or go to an actual race and find someone watching cycling who doesn't know who Wout van Aert is.

So your point here is moot. Reality demonstrates the contrary to what you're saying, especially with regards to Wout van Aert. The man is a star and recognized as a physical monster who can ride any terrain and win on any terrain, or pull his leader and team to victory when it matters.

Those are the facts!

 

[Berniece]

Isn't this a forum to share how personal view of cycling? Or I'm not allowed to have a different opinion? For me (and history shows that), domestiques are not remembered at all (very few are), their legacy is not remembered for their work to other riders (I challenge anyone who just started watching cycling right now or 5 years ago, to say who is, for example, Vanendert without going to search). Is Ullrich remembered for working to Riis in 96? Or Cancellara to Andy, doing that incredible ride in 2010? I don't think so. Riders with WVA's ability, with a big caliber are not remembered for what he did two days ago.

Great helpers aren't necessarily remembered for a specific moment in time they did work for their leader. They are remembered nonetheless for their whole career of working for others. Not to mention that in case of WVA he will be remembered to have had an amazing career while also being a team player.

At least UAE still remembers him, because according to them they basically lost 2 TDF's and now 1 Giro because of WVA. But helpers don't matter though.

 

[Red Rick]

At least UAE still remembers him, because according to them they basically lost 2 TDF's and now 1 Giro because of WVA. But helpers don't matter though.

Gotta say that cause they could never admit Vingegaard was stronger in any given year.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I challenge anyone to go on social media or go to an actual race and find someone watching cycling who doesn't know who Wout van Aert is.

So your point here is moot. Reality demonstrates the contrary to what you're saying, especially with regards to Wout van Aert. The man is a star and recognized as a physical monster who can ride any terrain and win on any terrain, or pull his leader and team to victory when it matters.

Those are the facts!

This is what people remember the most.

 

[Rackham]

This is what people remember the most.

Arnaud Démare has almost 100 career pro wins. People only remember one of them.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Arnaud Démare has almost 100 career pro wins. People only remember one of them.

Cheap argument. You know what wins I was talking about.

 

[ChasingPotatoes]

Isn't this a forum to share our personal view of cycling? Or I'm not allowed to have a different opinion? For me (and history shows that), domestiques are not remembered at all (very few are), their legacy is not remembered for their work to other riders (I challenge anyone who just started watching cycling right now or 5 years ago, to say who is, for example, Vanendert without going to search). Is Ullrich remembered for working to Riis in 96? Or Cancellara to Andy, doing that incredible ride in 2010? I don't think so. Riders with WVA's ability, with a big caliber are not remembered for what he did two days ago.

I would say WvA will be remembered, in the same way as e.g. solid defenders in football (Maldini) are remembered: Loyal to the team, rock-solid, defining the team's strength, making the team win. All of that while no one remembers a single goal of Maldini, because that doesn't determine his legacy.

ps: despite of his 2nd / 3rd / 4th places, WvA still has won a lot of races (e.g. stages in all 3 GTs), is 3x WC Cx, green jersey at the TdF and you still see he's being hungry for more wins... Who knows he wins just one more classic (like Roubaix or Flanders) and that will be more than enough to cement his legacy. Even if he doesn't, he will be remembered for being a major force in the current road peloton like there were very few others (MvdP, Pog, a good Pedersen,... and that's about it).

 

[Rackham]

Cheap argument. You know what wins I was talking about.

You're not making any sense. You're trying to argue that one of the biggest starts in cycling isn't a star because of arbitrary reasons whilst I'm showing you that 'wins' for the sake of wins mean jack squat in terms of a rider's overall notoriety.

I mean come on, this sport has the most famous 'loser' of all time in the person of Raymond Poulidor himself.

That's cycling. It's a spectacle and people can also admire the physical performance of a rider like Van Aert as well.

 

[Peyroteo94]

You're not making any sense. You're trying to argue that one of the biggest starts in cycling isn't a star because of arbitrary reasons whilst I'm showing you that 'wins' for the sake of wins mean jack squat in terms of a rider's overall notoriety.

I mean come on, this sport has the most famous 'loser' of all time in the person of Raymond Poulidor himself.

That's cycling. It's a spectacle and people can also admire the physical performance of a rider like Van Aert as well.

?
I just said being a great domestique doesn't define your legacy. This is not we will remember from WVA in 20 years. That's my opinion, this is what I said.
In any moment, I said he isn't a star.

 

[Wyndbrook]

Without debating his palmares what Wout certainly has is respect from cycling fans worldwide. In his homeland I would suggest it's huge respect from his army of fans and the general public.

 

[Brullnux]

Bit of a pointless discussion as people also (rightly) praise van der Poel for being the best leadout man in the world, so it's not like it's just a sympathy thing for Van Aert

 

[yaco]

But there literally is. It's all part of his legacy.

This Giro for Van Aert will be remembered for two main things: winning the gravel stage and then winning the Giro with Simon Yates. A win in which he played a huge role.

The same way people remember his performance on Hautacam as well. Cycling (or sport in general) isn't an abstract list of achievements on a Wikipedia page or on Procyclingstats. It's a televised spectacle.

This touches on the core of the issue right here. People wonder 'why' Van Aert is such a huge star when he's got one monument. Well it's pretty damn straightforward: GT's get large viewing numbers and Van Aert is always a central protagonist in GT's. It's as simple as that. From contesting stages to making the race hard in the first hour or being the key helper for his leader.

Being the last man in a mountain stage and then doing a sprint lead out. I am trying to think of another rider who can achieve this.

 

[Berniece]

In any moment, I said he isn't a star.

You clearly haven't visited a CX race in Belgium where he attends, or any race in Belgium that he attends for that matter.

 

[yaco]

Bit of a pointless discussion as people also (rightly) praise van der Poel for being the best leadout man in the world, so it's not like it's just a sympathy thing for Van Aert

I wonder if MVDP will be the leadout rider for Pedersen at the TDF. Groves is riding the TDF and did an excellent at KBK. I suppose Alpecin can mix and match.

 

[yaco]

Isn't this a forum to share our personal view of cycling? Or I'm not allowed to have a different opinion? For me (and history shows that), domestiques are not remembered at all (very few are), their legacy is not remembered for their work to other riders (I challenge anyone who just started watching cycling right now or 5 years ago, to say who is, for example, Vanendert without going to search). Is Ullrich remembered for working to Riis in 96? Or Cancellara to Andy, doing that incredible ride in 2010? I don't think so. Riders with WVA's ability, with a big caliber are not remembered for what he did two days ago.

You realise that VWA has 50 wins. So there is a catalogue of memorires to remember.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

I wonder if MVDP will be the leadout rider for Pedersen at the TDF

In my opinion that is unlikely

 

[Netserk]

Being the last man in a mountain stage and then doing a sprint lead out. I am trying to think of another rider who can achieve this.

Wiggins.

 

[Brullnux]

Wiggins.

Surely Thomas?

 

[gregrowlerson]

View: https://youtu.be/SPu2bhTVHIk?si=j4cUgYWAfkhLm8_8


Won the Giro for Simon Yates and the 5th best rider in the world (ahead of 6th place MVDP).