Teams & Riders Official Wout Van Aert thread

[Netserk]

won silver at the WCTT.

Says it all that a result like that is needed to inflate his success (and a 2nd place in T-A, really? well that really made his season). I don't think I could tell you who was second at the WCTT at half the editions I've seen. Nor is it clear to me that it represents a (clearly) better season than Valverde's 2014. If the latter can be disappointing, surely the former can as well.

 

[tobydawq]

Says it all that a result like that is needed to inflate his success. I don't think I could tell you who was second at the WCTT at half the editions I've seen. Nor is it clear to me that it represents a (clearly) better season than Valverde's 2014.

I could also have said that he won the Tour of Britain and four (?) stages.

I included it to illustrate the versatility of his results.

And it's really not my problem which results you can or cannot remember.

 

[noob]

@Red Rick @BlueRoads @Bonimenier thanks.

When I see him I think of him as "young" for some reason, like someone a bit unaware of his limits. That could come from just 4 years road racing. Doesn't have to be psychological. I do wonder how JV resonates in regards to how he spent his energy in ToB instead of Worlds. I felt like he was showing off for the World's. Like a power démonstration. But then instead it drained him.

 

[Netserk]

Let me take a stab:

2021 Van Aert
2020 Van Aert
2019 Evenepoel
2018 Dumoulin?
2017 Rogla
2016 Eh, I have no idea about 2nd and 3rd. Dennis?
2015 Same as above. Martin?
2014 Malori?
2013 Cancellara
2012 Phinney
2011 Cancellara
2010 Martin
2009 Larson
2008 ??? Martin?
2007 No clue. Millar?
2006 Same. Rogers?
2005 Gone here too. Maybe Vino?

I think it's the least memorable podium compared to the winner of all races.

EDIT: Auch, that was quite poor, especially the times Wiggins beat Cancellara for silver.

 

[Bonimenier]

Let me take a stab:

2021 Van Aert
2020 Van Aert
2019 Evenepoel
2018 Dumoulin?
2017 Rogla
2016 Eh, I have no idea about 2nd and 3rd. Dennis?
2015 Same as above. Martin?
2014 Malori?
2013 Cancellara
2012 Phinney
2011 Cancellara
2010 Martin
2009 Larson
2008 ??? Martin?
2007 No clue. Millar?
2006 Same. Rogers?
2005 Gone here too. Maybe Vino?

I think it's the least memorable podium compared to the winner of all races.

I'm not sure if I would do a much better job listing 2nd places of the RR and all the monuments to be fair. For the TT it's at least more or less the same couple of names every year so easier to remember/guess.

In the end it's mostly the winners who get remembered because that is what counts in sports.

 

[Red Rick]

For me the difference is that Valverde isn't or wasn't the sort of rider to start GTs as a top 2 favorite. You can argue he was the favorite for the 2014 Vuelta, but when Froome and Contador start flying you can hardly argue he disappointed in that race. The big one day race targets were Liege, Worlds and Lombardia and arguably he only was the main favorite for Liege.

Van Aert meanwhile starts 5 major one day races and 2 ITT champinships as a top 2 favorite I'd argue not winning one of hem would be pretty disappointing.

 

[tobydawq]

I'm not sure if I would do a much better job listing 2nd places of the RR and all the monuments to be fair. For the TT it's at least more or less the same couple of names every year so easier to remember/guess.

In the end it's mostly the winners who get remembered because that is what counts in sports.

RR:
2021 DvB, Valgren
2020 Wout, Hirschi
2019 Trentin, Küng
2018 Bardet, Woods
2017 Kristoff, Matthews
2016 Cavendish, Boonen
2015 Matthews, Navardauskas
2014 Gerrans, Valverde
2013 Purito, Valverde
2012 EBH, Valverde
2011 Goss, Greipel
2010 Breschel, Davis (?)
2009 Kolobnev, Purito (not sure here, maybe wrong order)
2008 Cunego, Breschel
2007 Kolobnev, Schumacher (?)
2006 Zabel, Valverde
2005 Valverde, Geslin (?)
2004 Zabel, Paolini (?)
2003 Valverde, PVP
2002 Some sprinters, probably McEwen and Zabel

I could probably do something similar for the monuments but I have to pretend that I have more important stuff to do.

By the way, I don't think I could do much better regarding the TT than you, Netserk. But I still don't think that means that a silver medal is just pure inflation.

Edit: Lol, I had to check, and now all my question marks seem a bit like false modesty since I got everything exactly right

 

[Rackham]

My guess would be no as well, but at the same time they might give it a shot.

Surely Lombardia should be for Roglic & Vingegaard?

Having 3 riders in one team going for the win could be too much.

 

[tobydawq]

Surely Lombardia should be for Roglic & Vingegaard?

Having 3 riders in one team going for the win could be too much.

I don't think Vingegaard is even close to a shape where he can be competitive.

 

[Rackham]

I don't think Vingegaard is even close to a shape where he can be competitive.

Isn't that what Wout himself wanted the world & Belgium to believe regarding Evenepoel before the race yesterday?

I think WvA should calm down (in the media as well) & let teammates have their moment (especially when the route suits them).

 

[Red Rick]

I don't think Vingegaard is even close to a shape where he can be competitive.

Me neither. He hasn't raced in a while and unless he's specifically prepared for the Italian fall I don't see him being a second leader.

To me it seems pretty likely Van Aert won't ride Lombardia cause it will likely just be stretching it too much and if he's already super tired he can't compete either.

 

[tobydawq]

Isn't that what Wout himself wanted the world & Belgium to believe regarding Evenepoel before the race yesterday?

I think WvA should calm down (in the media as well) & let teammates have their moment (especially when the route suits them).

But Remco was in good shape. Vingegaard isn't.

Anyway, Wout will not go there, so it's a moot point.

 

[Jagartrott]

He said in one interview that he already didn't feel good on the Smeysberg, but then apparently he only told Stuyven he was bad when Alaphilippe was gone?

No, he told Stuyven to race his own race a few kms before Alaphilippe went. He had felt he wasn't 100% earlier, but hoped he could recover and things would change, which isn't selfish or outlandish actually. He also said he maybe should've told the guys earlier.

If he would have given up earlier though, people would've complained he's no true leader etc. Cut the guy some slack. He's always honest in his post-ride comments, and he's quite gracious in defeat.

 

[noob]

No, he told Stuyven to race his own race a few kms before Alaphilippe went. He had felt he wasn't 100% earlier, but hoped he could recover and things would change, which isn't selfish or outlandish actually. He also said he maybe should've told the guys earlier.

If he would have given up earlier though, people would've complained he's no true leader etc. Cut the guy some slack. He's always honest in his post-ride comments, and he's quite gracious in defeat.

That is what I mean with him feeling "young". I mean unaware of himself; his energy level, abilities and limits.

Not in a demeaning way. His JV seems to be unaware as well or why would they send him to ToB?

 

[Red Rick]

No, he told Stuyven to race his own race a few kms before Alaphilippe went. He had felt he wasn't 100% earlier, but hoped he could recover and things would change, which isn't selfish or outlandish actually. He also said he maybe should've told the guys earlier.

If he would have given up earlier though, people would've complained he's no true leader etc. Cut the guy some slack. He's always honest in his post-ride comments, and he's quite gracious in defeat.

I didn't say it was outlandish. Just a bit of poor communication but I don't think it's likely it cost Stuyven a medal

In fact I don't think Van Aert was wrong in claiming primary leadership for this race. Where they went wrong is failing to use an alternative leader properly.

And Jumbo needs to sort out Van Aerts peaks towards monuments better.

 

[Jagartrott]

I think that Van Aert may be less suited to this kind of parcours than most people assume (he himself included perhaps). The constant short bursts of energy suit MvdP and some others much better. Van Aert seems to prefer very long efforts at high Watts, be it Paris-Roubaix or even gradual climbs in the mountains.

 

[Red Rick]

I think that Van Aert may be less suited to this kind of parcours than most people assume (he himself included perhaps). The constant short bursts of energy suit MvdP and some others much better. Van Aert seems to prefer very long efforts at high Watts, be it Paris-Roubaix or even gradual climbs in the mountains.

True. I see him more of a super high threshold rider than an anaerobic freak, like he can do one big effort and that's it. Bit hard to say if that's a lack of recovery, anaerobic ability, endurance, or just peak form.

 

[BlueRoads]

Hm, current cyclocross WC second, Strade winner, hardly ever finished Strade off the podium, but problems with repeated explosive short efforts? Worse than van Baarle? Not sure I'll sign that.
Maybe there's something about the lactate though which builds more on such a long course with such efforts. But in general I think he just wasn't on his best day.

 

[topcat]

I think that Van Aert may be less suited to this kind of parcours than most people assume (he himself included perhaps). The constant short bursts of energy suit MvdP and some others much better. Van Aert seems to prefer very long efforts at high Watts, be it Paris-Roubaix or even gradual climbs in the mountains.

Yes. I thought Alaphilippe would win. MvdP in peak form would have had a chance, but we all knew he wasn't in top form. Van Aert wasn't going to match the repetitive explosivity of Ala. Having said that he performed much worse than I thought he would. Ala and Remco were the stars. I think Remco and Stuyven could have maybe got 2nd and 3rd if they hadn't done so much work for van Aert.

 

[Rackham]

I think that Van Aert may be less suited to this kind of parcours than most people assume (he himself included perhaps).

I think what van Aert assumes about himself might be a part of the problem.

It happened in the Tour de France this year when he went on a mission week 1 to get the yellow jersey. He flunked the stage 5 TT when even his team expected him to get the result (it was pretty clear even in their documentary). And we shouldn't forget he was pretty much one of the favorites (if not "the" favorite) for the Olympics TT. He finished 6th.

But then he also went & won stuff which nobody really expected (Ventoux, Champs-Elysées), i.e. wins which probably only further fuelled the belief (including his own) he could win everything else he wanted.

 

[Pantani_lives]

I think the Belgian team was overexcited and did too much, too early. Van Aert was already closing gaps with his nose in the wind more than 50 km before the finish. It's better to take the climbs quietly and ride pace in an organized group on the flat sections. Now everybody was all over the place. Fun to watch, but to win a race you have to save energy. Imagine if Evenepoel and Campenaerts had saved themselves for the final 30 km...

 

[Red Rick]

Hm, current cyclocross WC second, Strade winner, hardly ever finished Strade off the podium, but problems with repeated explosive short efforts? Worse than van Baarle? Not sure I'll sign that.
Maybe there's something about the lactate though which builds more on such a long course with such efforts. But in general I think he just wasn't on his best day.

He didn't win Strade this year, he won that last year.

Anyway, gonna be weird. Some seem to hold Evenepoels misuse by the Belgian team against Van Aert, meanwhile it seems Belgian media is all zomg we road so well and participation trophies.

 

[BlueRoads]

He didn't win Strade this year, he won that last year.

Yep, that's what I meant, lazy formatting from my side.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Anyway, gonna be weird. Some seem to hold Evenepoels misuse by the Belgian team against Van Aert, meanwhile it seems Belgian media is all zomg we road so well and participation trophies.

What i hold against Van Aert is going along in the rhetoric of him being absolute leader months in advance as if he were invincible. Then the fact that he knew during the race that it wasn't going to be his day, and yet he asked Evenepoel to work and waited until Evenepoel was smoked to inform Stuyven that he could ride his own race.

 

[BlueRoads]

German media, somewhere down in the sports section, if any report at all: there was a WC in Belgium, a Frenchman won, many crashes happened and Germans crashed out as well. Over to football and formula 1 again.

About van Aert, I wonder why he felt the need to ask for this one-leader approach (publicly), and also why he felt the need to state so clearly going for green next year. Maybe he feels his talents are wasted, that he's not where he belongs in the hierarchies... or that his time is short... I never got the impression he was arrogant or overestimating himself... but maybe the incredible showings have changed that a bit, and, like noob said somewhere, he doesn't really know himself what he's capable of... or he even feels kind of slighted by Evenepoel being the new Eddy, Roglic being ahead of him at Jumbo, and then Mathieu is ahead of him in cross . Maybe he's actually afraid to be the constant second/ that his talents don't come to true shine?