Teams & Riders Official Wout Van Aert thread

[red_flanders]

We simply don't know if he's over his peak or if he just had a bad day, do we?

100%. It seems that if WVA doesn't dominate every race he's now subject to a fairly ridiculous level of critique. Sometimes, get this, riders get tired. Prep can be imperfect. One can get a really bad night's sleep or just not have the legs. There are other riders out there who need to feed their families as well, and they're not exactly chumps on the bike.

Would we regard the last two seasons as anything but amazing by WVA?

 

[Rackham]

That's a pretty stupid comparison. Winning a one-day race when you're the absolute best, is sometimes harder than winning it when you're one of the lesser favorites. If you're the absolute best in a 3 week GT, you either win or you crash out.

You really think WvA takes such "realities" (more like semantics) into consideration whilst asking for unilateral team leadership in the worlds whilst he unironically denies Roglic the same "all for one" in the Tour? Hardly.

Really strange to be berating someone who worked his ass off for Roglic countless times during le Tour (flat roads, hills, mountains). Van Aert is a prime candidate for green, so asking for one extra guy in support who could also help ease Van Aert's task on flat roads vis-a-vis Roglic doesn't seem outrageous to me.

There are 8 riders in the Tour team.

Give WvA two men (which is what he basically wants next year, because he already had Teunissen this year) & that would leave 4 for Roglic. One of them is Vingegaard (now protected), another will be Rohan Dennis (who'll work for everyone) & that leaves the good old trusted Kuss/Kruijswijk duo.

It seems a bit light for a joint favorite for the Tour de France.

 

[Sciatic]

Really strange to be berating someone who worked his ass off for Roglic countless times during le Tour (flat roads, hills, mountains). Van Aert is a prime candidate for green, so asking for one extra guy in support who could also help ease Van Aert's task on flat roads vis-a-vis Roglic doesn't seem outrageous to me.

I thought the only thing strange about it was his announcing those wishes through the media right in the middle of the Vuelta, where the Jumbo team were fighting to get Roglic the win. It seemed like really poor timing.

 

[Bonimenier]

There are 8 riders in the Tour team.

Give WvA two men (which is what he basically wants next year, because he already had Teunissen this year) & that would leave 4 for Roglic. One of them is Vingegaard (now protected), another will be Rohan Dennis (who'll work for everyone) & that leaves the good old trusted Kuss/Kruijswijk duo.

It seems a bit light for a joint favorite for the Tour de France.

That's probably still one of the best, if not the best team in the mountains, and it's not like Teunissen, the other domestique for van Aert and van Aert himself won't do any work for Roglic. You're making it seem as if JV would have 2 seperate teams in 1 race.

 

[Rackham]

That's probably still one of the best, if not the best team in the mountains, and it's not like Teunissen, the other domestique for van Aert and van Aert himself won't do any work for Roglic. You're making it seem as if JV would have 2 seperate teams in 1 race.

It can seem that way because when a team has split objectives, it's true. WvA also promised he wouldn't work for Roglic like last year even before the Tour this year, so he admitted as much with regards to his own objectives.

Based on what WvA asked for in the media last month with regards to next year's Tour, some guys will be going to support his green & stage objectives whilst others are fighting to protect the GC leader. There's no way around the fact in this peloton (especially since they reduced the number of riders from 9 to 8), it matters. I mean what next? Sepp Kuss coming forward in the press & saying "I want the polka jersey because I'm good enough"? Imagine if they all acted the same way?

The reality is WvA is an extremely strong & also extremely ambitious rider who doesn't shy away from stating his ambition. He uses the media for political advantage as well, i.e. something he does at Jumbo & also did with the Belgian national team (i.e. stating in the media he should be sole leader for the WC & putting pressure on Evenepoel to "comply" for the greater good).

He thinks about himself first & foremost & I don't believe it's controversial to either notice it or state it.

 

[Axel Hangleck]

Sometimes, get this, riders get tired. Prep can be imperfect. One can get a really bad night's sleep or just not have the legs......

Agree. Believe it or not, they are human; it's possible riders get up and just don't feel it and/ or when warming up their legs aren't quite there. No different to us planning a long ride, and after 5-10 minutes knowing it's going to be a bad day.

I would still make him favourite for Sunday - one slight 'off day' isn't yet a sign he's finished for the season.....

 

[Jagartrott]

It can seem that way because when a team has split objectives, it's true. WvA also promised he wouldn't work for Roglic like last year even before the Tour this year, so he admitted as much with regards to his own objectives.

Based on what WvA asked for in the media last month with regards to next year's Tour, some guys will be going to support his green & stage objectives whilst others are fighting to protect the GC leader. There's no way around the fact in this peloton (especially since they reduced the number of riders from 9 to 8), it matters. I mean what next? Sepp Kuss coming forward in the press & saying "I want the polka jersey because I'm good enough"? Imagine if they all acted the same way?

The reality is WvA is an extremely strong & also extremely ambitious rider who doesn't shy away from stating his ambition. He uses the media for political advantage as well, i.e. something he does at Jumbo & also did with the Belgian national team (i.e. stating in the media he should be sole leader for the WC & putting pressure on Evenepoel to "comply" for the greater good).

He thinks about himself first & foremost & I don't believe it's controversial to either notice it or state it.

Sep Kuss hasn't won multiple Tour stages. Count how many multi-stage winners are willing to bury themselves three weeks for someone else. Van Aert has earned the right to want more freedom for his own ambitions. Two riders in his support that can also work for Roglic - that's still pretty modest.

 

[Red Rick]

Sep Kuss hasn't won multiple Tour stages. Count how many multi-stage winners are willing to bury themselves three weeks for someone else. Van Aert has earned the right to want more freedom for his own ambitions. Two riders in his support that can also work for Roglic - that's still pretty modest.

Nah. Not in the Tour when the team is trying to win it. If he can win green on his own, fine, but he should have no dedicated doms for that.

 

[tobydawq]

Who will ride for Vingegaard?

Give Van Aert, Roglic, Vingegaard and Groenewegen one helper each.

 

[johnymax]

Who will ride for Vingegaard?

Give Van Aert, Roglic, Vingegaard and Groenewegen one helper each.

Vingegaard is the new Pogačar. He can win on his own.

 

[johnymax]

Let Roglič ride for Wout, Wout for Groenewegen, Groenewegen for Vingegaard and Vingegaard for Roglič. It'll be complete chaos. UAE and Ineos riders won't have a clue what is happening. Maybe the magic formula for TJV to bring the Tour home.

Edit:
Kruijswijk is going to win in the end.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Who will ride for Vingegaard?

Obviously Roglic, who will have 2-3 domestiques for himself. So 1 domestique for Vinge, 1-2 for Van Aert and 2-3 for Primoz, who will be the happiest man having most helpers.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Let Roglič ride for Wout, Wout for Groenewegen, Groenewegen for Vingegaard and Vingegaard for Roglič. It'll be complete chaos. UAE and Ineos riders won't have a clue what is happening. Maybe the magic formula for TJV to bring the Tour home.

Edit:
Kruijswijk is going to win in the end.

 

[noob]

German media, somewhere down in the sports section, if any report at all: there was a WC in Belgium, a Frenchman won, many crashes happened and Germans crashed out as well. Over to football and formula 1 again.

About van Aert, I wonder why he felt the need to ask for this one-leader approach (publicly), and also why he felt the need to state so clearly going for green next year. Maybe he feels his talents are wasted, that he's not where he belongs in the hierarchies... or that his time is short... I never got the impression he was arrogant or overestimating himself... but maybe the incredible showings have changed that a bit, and, like noob said somewhere, he doesn't really know himself what he's capable of... or he even feels kind of slighted by Evenepoel being the new Eddy, Roglic being ahead of him at Jumbo, and then Mathieu is ahead of him in cross . Maybe he's actually afraid to be the constant second/ that his talents don't come to true shine?

The reason I asked in this thread was because I have seen the character @Rackham paints and I have until this last weekend had a serious aversion to Van Aert. When I understood the pressure he was under it made it easier to see a person. Before that I only saw someone that seemed to like his hype. What struck me the most was a stage in ToB where he didn't even smile after winning. That to me looked... as if he was just ticking of a box, as if he had expected the win and it didn't mean anything to him. He probably had, and probably should considering his level then, but... compare with someone like Pog who was overjoyed by a bronze medal at the olympics.

However have to ask; how much of what the younger riders asks for are their own wishes and how much is the agents putting thoughts in their heads?

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Vingegaard is the new Pogačar. He can win on his own.

If anything, Vinge is the old Pogacar.

 

[Bonimenier]

The reason I asked in this thread was because I have seen the character @Rackham paints and I have until this last weekend had a serious aversion to Van Aert. When I understood the pressure he was under it made it easier to see a person. Before that I only saw someone that seemed to like his hype. What struck me the most was a stage in ToB where he didn't even smile after winning. That to me looked... as if he was just ticking of a box, as if he had expected the win and it didn't mean anything to him. He probably had, and probably should considering his level then, but... compare with someone like Pog who was overjoyed by a bronze medal at the olympics.

However have to ask; how much of what the younger riders asks for are their own wishes and how much is the agents putting thoughts in their heads?

The comparison between winning a stage in ToB (definitely if it is your 3rd or 4th) and an olympic medal probably isn't that great. The Olympics are being watched by the whole world. You get praise from your whole country. Outside of the Olympics, the Tour and maybe Roubaix, cycling isn't being watched by the world. ToB isn't the highest level either, it's not WT, so it probably only get watched by the obsessive cycling fans. For riders like Pogacar, WvA, MvdP, Roglic, Alaphilippe,... it's nice to win there, but it isn't really a goal.

As for younger riders asking for their own wishes, it probably also depends on their level. The riders I mentioned before have won so much and so many big races, that it is logical that they set big goals. I don't think they need agents to put those goals in their head. Riders who are just below that level are likely more susceptible to agents putting borderline unrealistic goals in their mind.

 

[BlueRoads]

The question is what Jumbo told / tells the riders. When van Aert extended his contract he knew of Roglic in the team. I can totally understand he wants to reach his own goals, he is one of the top 5 riders in the world without a doubt - however, Jumbo must have a plan how to balance his and Roglic's goals and I would expect such questions to be talked about in contract conversations. So what did each party say then?

 

[noob]

The comparison between winning a stage in ToB (definitely if it is your 3rd or 4th) and an olympic medal probably isn't that great. The Olympics are being watched by the whole world. You get praise from your whole country. Outside of the Olympics, the Tour and maybe Roubaix, cycling isn't being watched by the world. ToB isn't the highest level either, it's not WT, so it probably only get watched by the obsessive cycling fans. For riders like Pogacar, WvA, MvdP, Roglic, Alaphilippe,... it's nice to win there, but it isn't really a goal.

As for younger riders asking for their own wishes, it probably also depends on their level. The riders I mentioned before have won so much and so many big races, that it is logical that they set big goals. I don't think they need agents to put those goals in their head. Riders who are just below that level are likely more susceptible to agents putting borderline unrealistic goals in their mind.

I do understand them setting new goals and that it's a way smaller race, but when you don't get happy about a win even if a smaller it feels like you have already lost. Like I understand you get jaded after years of riding, but he is only 27. Must be rather painful.

 

[Bonimenier]

I do understand them setting new goals and that it's a way smaller race, but when you don't get happy about a win even if a smaller it feels like you have already lost. Like I understand you get jaded after years of riding, but he is only 27. Must be rather painful.

I am convinced he was happy though. Just wanted to look badass crossing the line like we've seen in the past by for example Cav in some of his TDF wins or MvdP in his win in Tirreno this year. You have to come up with something if you win as much as some of those guys. The Jesus on the cross celebration gets pretty boring after a while.

 

[noob]

I am convinced he was happy though. Just wanted to look badass crossing the line like we've seen in the past by for example Cav in some of his TDF wins or MvdP in his win in Tirreno this year. You have to come up with something if you win as much as some of those guys. The Jesus on the cross celebration gets pretty boring after a while.

OK I can take that The thought just crossed my mind that maybe he knew ToB could *** up his worlds form.

 

[KZD]

I am getting more the impression that he is just not build for these ~250km classics. He has 7 participations in RVV and PR already and he only achieved podium once in last year's Ronde.

Time may prove me wrong but although he is an outstanding rider I just can't see him being the serial monument winner that would replace Boonen.

 

[Red Rick]

I am getting more the impression that he is just not build for these ~250km classics. He has 7 participations in RVV and PR already and he only achieved podium once in last year's Ronde.

Time may prove me wrong but although he is an outstanding rider I just can't see him being the serial monument winner that would replace Boonen.

I think he does too many things. Too much focus on climbing. Too much focus on TTing. Going too hard in the races before a big target. He's just over his peak consistently in the monuments

 

[topcat]

I am getting more the impression that he is just not build for these ~250km classics. He has 7 participations in RVV and PR already and he only achieved podium once in last year's Ronde.

Time may prove me wrong but although he is an outstanding rider I just can't see him being the serial monument winner that would replace Boonen.

I agree and have thought that since last weekend. PR and the WRR were just too long and hard for Wout.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

He is tactically defensive, not aggressive and misses key moves. It seems he fears losing too much and doesn't want to risk that to win. Unlike VDP who will drop the hammer early at the risk of wasting energy, getting caught and not being a factor.


When he actually put the hammer down on Strade Bianche 2020 he made a dominant win. Since then I didn't see him attack decisively once. His Sanremo was catching JA on descent and then doing a better sprint.

Maybe he's not made for monuments but he clearly has the endurance. He is constantly up there, even in his pre jumbo days in 2018.

He is also always too isolated in the final 50km of classics. Watch RVV and you will see him all the time closing gaps to attacks from Asgreen, VanderPol, Turgis. Because he has no teammates and everyone lean on him.

These factors contribute to him not winning I think. I never really liked Wout but is clear he has a lot of pressure as a Belgian. And that makes him fear losing. So I feel sympathy for him

 

[Hugo Koblet]

I think he does too many things. Too much focus on climbing. Too much focus on TTing. Going too hard in the races before a big target. He's just over his peak consistently in the monuments

Exactly this. He's probably a top 10 sprinter, a top 5 time trialist and a good climber, but he's not the best in the world at anything.