Teams & Riders Official Wout Van Aert thread

[meat puppet]

In retrospect, i think the late season races confirmed the writing on the wall mentioned by his trainer already in jan-feb. Wva lacked base, at least relative to what he could and should achieve, and was not able to fix this during the season. Hence no surprise he was found lacking in long hard races, could not recover from going deep to follow attacks, let alone attack himself, etc.

Wout van Aert 2kg and 5 weeks away from full fitness

Belgian looking to lose cyclo-cross muscle during Tenerife altitude camp

www.cyclingnews.com

Trying to peak 3-4 times is very difficult in its own right, but especially so if the base is not solid enough.

Getting a kid and the appendix business no doubt contributed to this at different stages too.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

In retrospect, i think the late season races confirmed the writing on the wall mentioned by his trainer already in jan-feb. Wva lacked base, at least relative to what he could and should achieve, and was not able to fix this during the season. Hence no surprise he was found lacking in long hard races, could not recover from going deep to follow attacks, let alone attack himself, etc.

Wout van Aert 2kg and 5 weeks away from full fitness

Belgian looking to lose cyclo-cross muscle during Tenerife altitude camp

www.cyclingnews.com

Trying to peak 3-4 times is very difficult in its own right, but especially so if the base is not solid enough.

Getting a kid and the appendix business no doubt contributed to this at different stages too.

I follow him on strava and his season was basically:

-1 week rest from CX then 3 weeks at altitude on Teide
-Spring racing period from Strade to Amstel
-1 week rest, few days training, another 10 days rest after appendix, then straight to Sierra nevada for altitude followed by tignes altitude
-Belgian Road race, Tour de France and Tokyo olympics
-7-10 days rest and then straight to 18 days on livigno for altitude.
-Tour of Britain, Worlds ITT, worlds RR, Roubaix.

He never takes a big period of several weeks to do moderate training blocks at sea level to build base and slowly build form (like most pros do in January and other points in the season). He is always racing, at altitude, or recovering from a block of racing before going to altitude.

So I think you are exactly right.

 

[Rackham]

Well his stage wins are of use to TJV's sponsors. In optimal scenario, TJV wins Yellow and Green while Wout wins 3-5 stages while doing that. This would even be feasible if Tadej Pogacar didn't exist or if he embraces his newfound sunny disposition and starts doing spectacular wheelies instead of dropping guys uphill.

TJV is in unique position here. Other GC-focused teams (Ineos, UAE, Movistar) simply don't have a rider of Wout's calibre and market appeal and things are much simpler there. But we need to understand Wout generates a lot of publicity. He is one of the top 5 cyclists publicity-wise and he is always going to be a part of TDF team. The thing is that going for Green must have a bad cost-benefit ratio from team's perspective. A lot less chances for Yellow for a rather small gain you get with Green. And it's not like Green is a done deal for Wout either. They can go for Green and fail and fail Yellow as well - because they went for Green. I think this years model is the best compromise - team being GC focused with Wout having a free role while occasionally (if the curcumstances arise) working for GC goal. He can win a couple of stages, a time trial and be happy that the team can still aim for Yellow... In exchange, TJV must provide him a much better support in the classics.

I agree WvA can have a free role to go stage hunting (insofar that the entire team isn't pulled into a "leg breaking" stage when they should be rested), but teams like Ineos arguably have a much better setup with Filippo Ganna (for example). This guy pulled for Bernal - no questions asked - like a legend in the Giro 2021. I'm hoping Rohan Dennis can fill that role for Roglic & the other climbers in 2021 (a job WvA can do so well but seems totally unwilling).

And this year's model in the Tour 2021 might have worked but it was way too brittle & tactically uncompromising (a failure to call off WvA's stage hunting after Gesink DNF'd during stage 3 meant Roglic was lacking protection when he needed it most).

 

[topcat]

Personally, I find it more interesting why Wout has only won one big road race than why he should eat *** for Roglic.

 

[BlueRoads]

One thing I know, he's not overrated as a rider. The whole season-schedule and planning and training could have gone better and he needs to focus more on specific goals.
But in the end he had a super-impressive Tour and that he didn't win the Olympics RR was really not a lack of strength, but just the fact that he was the overwhelming favourite and everyone was riding against him, which worked in the end. No other rider in his position would have won that day.

 

[Boes]

Yeah sure, my point was just that he might be better off and win more/bigger races if he didn't focused on doing everything.

That said, Van Aert has as many monument wins as Colbrelli, Stuyven and Asgreen.

Hasn't he won 2?
Gent Wevelgem and Milan San Remo?

 

[SafeBet]

GW is not a Monument.

 

[Rackham]

Personally, I find it more interesting why Wout has only won one big road race than why he should eat *** for Roglic.

The ultimate irony in your post is the fact he won Amstel 2021 precisely because... Roglic ate sh*t for WvA & worked his ass off that day for him.

 

[topcat]

The ultimate irony in your post is the fact he won Amstel 2021 precisely because... Roglic ate sh*t for WvA & worked his ass off that day for him.

Cruel irony is a fickle mistress.

 

[OlavEH]

He never takes a big period of several weeks to do moderate training blocks at sea level to build base and slowly build form (like most pros do in January and other points in the season). He is always racing, at altitude, or recovering from a block of racing before going to altitude.

So I think you are exactly right.

Wonder if he needs to do more of this block training before the spring season? Which means that his CX-season needs to be cut short? Or could he combine a full CX season with a successful spring campaign and then do a longer training period after the spring classics to prepare for the second half of the season?

 

[BlueRoads]

Wonder if he needs to do more of this block training before the spring season? Which means that his CX-season needs to be cut short? Or could he combine a full CX season with a successful spring campaign and then do a longer training period after the spring classics to prepare for the second half of the season?

I think the second is what van der Poel did? Who had to cut the spring classics season a bit short though to be able to do it?

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

You can also claim that this year's Vuelta winner and this year'sTour runner up deserve a full scale GC team… But they aren't going to get one either so to finally be able to qote one of my favourite movie one-liners in a real-life situation: Deserve's got nothing to do with it.

It's up to TJV to set their priorities and they must understand that:

• They have a far lesser chance of winning Yellow if they go for Green with Wout
• There's a chance Wout is not going to be motivated at all if they don't let him and support him go for Green or even leave team
• There's a chance Roglic or Vinge are going to leave team if they don't get sufficient support in TDF.
• And finally: Yellow >> Green, except maybe in countries TJV's main sponsors come from where Wout's Green may in fact have similar market value that Primoz's or Vinge's Yellow. This is really just a guesswork from my side - I know nothing about that one... But thing would surely be a lot easier to decide if TJV had a global sponsor.

Not to upset @Rackham to much: From my post it seems like I'm considering Roglic and Vingegaard as equals which I'm not - I think Roglic is still way better GT rider. However, Vingegaard's result this year means he deserves equal opportunity next year - at least up to the point where road put everyone in their place...

I thought deserve 's got nothing to do with it?

 

[OlavEH]

I think the second is what van der Poel did? Who had to cut the spring classics season a bit short though to be able to do it?

Van Aert. With respect to what @Ilmaestro99 wrote above, I was wondering if Van Aert needs a longer period with training early in the season to maximize his efforts in the spring classics? Or if it's possible to succeed even with a full CX season, a little rest, altitude training and then directly starting his spring campaign?

 

[gerundium]

I follow him on strava and his season was basically:

-1 week rest from CX then 3 weeks at altitude on Teide
-Spring racing period from Strade to Amstel
-1 week rest, few days training, another 10 days rest after appendix, then straight to Sierra nevada for altitude followed by tignes altitude
-Belgian Road race, Tour de France and Tokyo olympics
-7-10 days rest and then straight to 18 days on livigno for altitude.
-Tour of Britain, Worlds ITT, worlds RR, Roubaix.

He never takes a big period of several weeks to do moderate training blocks at sea level to build base and slowly build form (like most pros do in January and other points in the season). He is always racing, at altitude, or recovering from a block of racing before going to altitude.

So I think you are exactly right.

He mentioned in the post-race interview at Roubaix that has not had a longer rest period for a really long time, and looking back on this schedule that matches up. He can now go into the off-season without injuries and take an easier more solid build-up to next year. won't surprise me if we won't see him in the CX races until christmas time.

 

[Ripper]

Yeah, you're right.
2 stage wins and overall 2nd in TA
3 stagewins in TdF
Gent-Wevelgem win
Amstel Gold win
3 stagewins and overall in Brittain tour
top 10 in RVV, PR, Harelbeke, Strade, MS, WC and others
silver in TT WC
Silver in TT OG

in 2020 alone...

what an underachiever

I know, right? I mean, silver?

 

[Ripper]

I agree WvA can have a free role to go stage hunting (insofar that the entire team isn't pulled into a "leg breaking" stage when they should be rested), but teams like Ineos arguably have a much better setup with Filippo Ganna (for example). This guy pulled for Bernal - no questions asked - like a legend in the Giro 2021. I'm hoping Rohan Dennis can fill that role for Roglic & the other climbers in 2021 (a job WvA can do so well but seems totally unwilling).

And this year's model in the Tour 2021 might have worked but it was way too brittle & tactically uncompromising (a failure to call off WvA's stage hunting after Gesink DNF'd during stage 3 meant Roglic was lacking protection when he needed it most).

I think van Aert actually did a great job doing this, pulling for the team, in the 2020 race.

 

[Ripper]

Van Aert. With respect to what @Ilmaestro99 wrote above, I was wondering if Van Aert needs a longer period with training early in the season to maximize his efforts in the spring classics? Or if it's possible to succeed even with a full CX season, a little rest, altitude training and then directly starting his spring campaign?

Not sure if it's exactly comparable, but the evidence from 2020 would suggest you're right. He came in to that abbreviated season so well prepared and was just on fire

 

[Extinction]

Ha, ha Stefano Garzelli on the RAI commetary (Coppa Bernocchi) said that Evenepoel was all too zealous with performing team duties for Belgium at the World's, but that Belgium should have deployed him differently reserving Evenepoel for the end, who, even if not the designated captain, merited more consideration based on his form. Analisi perfetto! And that, according to Garzelli, the rivalry between Van Aert and Evenepoel is destined to go on for years to come. I would not want to be the Belgian national coach as a result. Oh the nightmare.

 

[BlueRoads]

Van Aert. With respect to what @Ilmaestro99 wrote above, I was wondering if Van Aert needs a longer period with training early in the season to maximize his efforts in the spring classics? Or if it's possible to succeed even with a full CX season, a little rest, altitude training and then directly starting his spring campaign?

Sorry, seem to have expressed myself badly, I meant that I thought that is the approach van der Poel used, but then Mathieu therefor had to cut the second part of the spring off - with Amstel and so - because he was training then. But I don't know what he would have done with PR happening in spring.

 

[houtdffan]

This is getting quite silly. While i agree he shouldn't have been undisputed leader at the WCC on that course and Evenepoel in such form, insinuating he should have waited for Vingegaard is nothing short of laughable. If anything, his results would have been a lot better had he been supported by his team somewhat adequately, he's had to waste too much energy in many races due to non-existent support. He is #2 in the world. Yes, he deserves his own support.

Not in a grand tour when the team's main object is to win the overall. He becomes a super dom in that instance. Rog deserves full ream support, and an argument can be made that Vingegaard is also worthy of dedicated full team support

 

[bNator]

I thought deserve 's got nothing to do with it?

That’s precisely why I put it in italics...

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Not in a grand tour when the team's main object is to win the overall. He becomes a super dom in that instance. Rog deserves full ream support, and an argument can be made that Vingegaard is also worthy of dedicated full team support

Doms that work for green in one stage, could easily be the same doms working for yellow in another stage. Wout himself has also proven he can still help in stages where he has no goals. Maybe not as intensely as in 2020, but still. Furthermore, by diversifying your approach, you put less stress and pressure on your GC leaders, as well as shed a part of your responsibility unlike what they did in 2020, where they controlled the entire Tour and basically did the work for Pogacar's weak team.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Poor ending of the season for Wout. No podium place in two races that were probably among his top3 goals this season.

 

[Rackham]

I think van Aert actually did a great job doing this, pulling for the team, in the 2020 race.

I agree, i.e. which is what I wrote in my post you quoted (aka "a job WvA can do so well").

But unlike Ganna, he's got his own goals as well & isn't 100% committed. So JV will need Rohan Dennis to turn on his Giro 2020 mode in next year's Tour to compensate for WvA's occasional no-show as a super-domestique.

Doms that work for green in one stage, could easily be the same doms working for yellow in another stage. Wout himself has also proven he can still help in stages where he has no goals. Maybe not as intensely as in 2020, but still. Furthermore, by diversifying your approach, you put less stress and pressure on your GC leaders, as well as shed a part of your responsibility unlike what they did in 2020, where they controlled the entire Tour and basically did the work for Pogacar's weak team.

I'll hope for the best in any case. But if WvA starts losing the green jersey, stages & becomes frustrated, then that team dynamic won't work.

It's a double edged sword & I feel all of this goes back to that cr*p ending of the 2020 Tour, i.e. where Roglic became a "loser" & the narrative that van Aert was "too good" to sacrifice himself for Roglic's yellow jersey went viral. And then everything got totally out of control one week later at the world championship where Belgian media claimed Roglic "owed" WvA a pull at the end.

For whatever reason, I feel Roglic is still underrated due to the ending of the Tour last year whilst WvA for xyz reasons can be totally overrated before certain races (just look at the bookmaker odds, crazy). But if a team wants to win the Tour, they have 2 options right now: Roglic or Pogacar. JV is fortunate to have one of them & should set up the team next July accordingly.

 

[noob]

Like @BlueRoads said earlier it is all about what is in his contract.

If it's not in his contract to be a domestique in TdF then move to another GT with support for him there until Rogla has his TdF win.

I always think it sounds so weird when riders demands support, as it basically means using teammates for their own glory. It would be much more fun if the team asked to support a rider. Probably would mean better support as well.