Teams & Riders Official Wout Van Aert thread

[Rackham]

What i hold against Van Aert is going along in the rhetoric of him being absolute leader months in advance as if he were invincible. Then the fact that he knew during the race that it wasn't going to be his day, and yet he asked Evenepoel to work and waited until Evenepoel was smoked to inform Stuyven that he could ride his own race.

Welcome to the reality of TJV.

This is the same rider who already laid down a marker in the press before the Tour de France this year claiming he wouldn't ride in support of Roglic in the mountains "like last year". Before riding even harder to win his own stage in the Ventoux (once Roglic had crashed out). He also recently made more claims in the press about going for green next year (& needing support in the team for that).

I like 80% of what I see with WvA, but there's this other side which quite honestly often comes across as selfish & arrogant which I don't find helps anyone (himself included).

 

[tobydawq]

Welcome to the reality of TJV.

This is the same rider who already laid down a marker in the press before the Tour de France this year claiming he wouldn't ride in support of Roglic in the mountains "like last year". Before riding even harder to win his own stage in the Ventoux (once Roglic had crashed out). He also recently made more claims in the press about going for green next year (& needing support in the team for that).

I like 80% of what I see with WvA, but there's this other side which quite honestly often comes across as selfish & arrogant which I don't find helps anyone (himself included).

How is he going to go for green when he will be leadout for Groenewegen?

 

[Rackham]

How is he going to go for green when he will be leadout for Groenewegen?

lol

But seriously, JV have even hired Christophe Laporte to ride in support for WvA next year (mostly in the Flandrien races). I wouldn't be surprised if he wants to take him to the Tour de France as well (to give himself both Teunissen & Laporte for the leadouts). And Groenewegen is totally screwed anyway in the hierarchy.

And with the advent of Jonas Vingegaard as a protected rider, it would leave Roglic with just Sepp Kuss & Kruijswijk as dedicated domestiques (with Rohan Dennis riding for everyone).

I sometimes wish WvA had signed for Ineos when he had the chance.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

lol

But seriously, JV have even hired Christophe Laporte to ride in support for WvA next year (mostly in the Flandrien races). I wouldn't be surprised if he wants to take him to the Tour de France as well (to give himself both Teunissen & Laporte for the leadouts). And Groenewegen is totally screwed anyway in the hierarchy.

And with the advent of Jonas Vingegaard as a protected rider, it would leave Roglic with just Sepp Kuss & Kruijswijk as dedicated domestiques (with Rohan Dennis riding for everyone).

I sometimes wish WvA had signed for Ineos when he had the chance.

I think Groenewegen is better off looking for another team, or come to terms with secondary races. You can't fault Van Aert for wanting helpers, when he himself does a lot of the work for Roglic as well, while Groenewegen basically needs an entire team to babysit him and drop him off 150 meters from the line. TJV should have supported Van Aert a lot better and a lot sooner.

 

[Rackham]

I think Groenewegen is better off looking for another team, or come to terms with secondary races. You can't fault Van Aert for wanting helpers, when he himself does a lot of the work for Roglic as well, while Groenewegen basically needs an entire team to babysit him and drop him off 150 meters from the line. TJV should have supported Van Aert a lot better and a lot sooner.

It totally depends on what a team wants as their number one goal. With Wout van Aert, TJV will win Tour stages & can chase the green jersey should they choose to back him. With Roglic, they can win the Tour de France.

There's plenty of room for both considering they're not the same profile as riders (& the season is long), but with his demands in the Tour, WvA now encroaches on Roglic's goal.

It would be like Roglic saying to the media "I think I'll aim for Milan San Remo & the Tour of Flanders next year... & I'll need some support as well".

 

[topcat]

I think Wout is setting his sights too low. He should declare himself gc leader for the 2022 tour. In TA he proved that he can finish 2nd to Pog.

 

[meat puppet]

I think that Van Aert may be less suited to this kind of parcours than most people assume (he himself included perhaps). The constant short bursts of energy suit MvdP and some others much better. Van Aert seems to prefer very long efforts at high Watts, be it Paris-Roubaix or even gradual climbs in the mountains.

Indeed. Perhaps the usual constraints, ie the partial mutual exclusivity of anaerobic punch and TT like high threshold abilities, become relevant in hard one day races when everyone is relatively fresh. Wva seems able to suspend this somewhat during stage racing, where he probably has an aerobic advantage and hence less cumulative fatigue than key peers, but often falls short during classics, when all specialists punch their weight so to speak.

Also he probably peaked too early: beat JA uphill in TOB but was nowhere near his level in WC.

 

[Jagartrott]

I'm not writing him off for P-R. He also seemed to be past his peak at De Ronde, but then the next week, he won Amstel.

 

[KZD]

I'm not writing him off for P-R. He also seemed to be passed his peak at De Ronde, but then the next week, he won Amstel.

It was two weeks in between de Ronde and Amstel but the argument still stands especially given that Roubaix doesn't have any climbs so it should suit him better than the World Championships course.

 

[Rackham]

Winning Paris-Roubaix after yesterday's no-show would be a very Wout van Aert thing to do.

 

[Red Rick]

I'm not writing him off for P-R. He also seemed to be past his peak at De Ronde, but then the next week, he won Amstel.

Amstel was shorter and easier than normal. By the time he got roasted in Ronde he had been waiting for 10 minutes for Amstel photo finish.

 

[Red Rick]

Getting 2nd in Paris-Roubaix after yesterday's no-show would be a very Wout van Aert thing to do.

Fixed that for you

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Amazing how his trainer still hasn't gotten that right. It's not the first time he misses out on his biggest seasonal goals due to bad timing and receding form.

it's quite peculair.. think RVV was his main goal of the spring and he wasn't good enough there. Good, but not the best Van Aert. Best van Aert was probably Tirreno.. and yes I know he won GW and AGR, but that's because even a non 100% van Aert can win those races.
Then the Olympics. I think he was very good there, but I believe he was better at the end of the Tour. Then the worlds, where again I feel he was better at Britain than here. It's like he consistently peaks too early.

 

[IndianCyclist]

It is clear that he has limits and the preparation needs to be tailor made for the objective at hand. Only one obejective should be taken at one time. trying to do everthing may work for the TDF/GTs but not in one day races.

 

[Red Rick]

it's quite peculair.. think RVV was his main goal of the spring and he wasn't good enough there. Good, but not the best Van Aert. Best van Aert was probably Tirreno.. and yes I know he won GW and AGR, but that's because even a non 100% van Aert can win those races.
Then the Olympics. I think he was very good there, but I believe he was better at the end of the Tour. Then the worlds, where again I feel he was better at Britain than here. It's like he consistently peaks too early.

Nah he didn't miss the peak for the road race in Tokyo. If anyone had fallen off at that point it was Pogacar.

 

[fox]

Welcome to the reality of TJV.

This is the same rider who already laid down a marker in the press before the Tour de France this year claiming he wouldn't ride in support of Roglic in the mountains "like last year". Before riding even harder to win his own stage in the Ventoux (once Roglic had crashed out). He also recently made more claims in the press about going for green next year (& needing support in the team for that).

I like 80% of what I see with WvA, but there's this other side which quite honestly often comes across as selfish & arrogant which I don't find helps anyone (himself included).

I think it is strange that you find it arrogant that the UCI number 1 rider in the world wants to have a team that rides for him. He has chances to win stages and chances to win the green jersey. I don't find it selfish that he wants to persue that goal, especially given the fact that Roglic can't beat pogacar for the yellow.

 

[Carrick-On-Seine]

I think it is strange that you find it arrogant that the UCI number 1 rider in the world wants to have a team that rides for him. He has chances to win stages and chances to win the green jersey. I don't find it selfish that he wants to persue that goal, especially given the fact that Roglic can't beat pogacar for the yellow.

He's ranked number 2.

 

[Boes]

He's the only one that can feel his legs and know his form.
But would it be an option to skip PR, take an extended holiday of let's say 10 days and then get out his CX bike?

I sometimes think people are overpushing WVA and MVP for that matter.

 

[BlueRoads]

We simply don't know if he's over his peak or if he just had a bad day, do we?

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

He's ranked number 2.

He was ranked #1 until yesterday though

 

[Carrick-On-Seine]

He was ranked #1 until yesterday though

But the post was made today! Anyway it's so tight that it could well come down to who has a big result at P-R or Lombardia.

 

[Blanco]

I think it is strange that you find it arrogant that the UCI number 1 rider in the world wants to have a team that rides for him. He has chances to win stages and chances to win the green jersey. I don't find it selfish that he wants to persue that goal, especially given the fact that Roglic can't beat pogacar for the yellow.

I find it arrogant for UCI number 2 rider this year, who also isn't a GT rider, to wants a team that rides for him at the Tour de France, while in that team is a man who is triple GT winner and UCI number 1 rider for the past two years.
Basically, Van Aert should have a team at his disposal in whatever race he wants, except the ones Primoz Roglic specifically targets.

 

[Rackham]

I think it is strange that you find it arrogant that the UCI number 1 rider in the world wants to have a team that rides for him. He has chances to win stages and chances to win the green jersey. I don't find it selfish that he wants to persue that goal, especially given the fact that Roglic can't beat pogacar for the yellow.

In reality Primoz Roglic seems to really like Wout van Aert so it's all a moot point (he's always posting stuff on Instagram which shows total respect towards WvA). But someone not as magnanimous & nice as Roglic might have had some issues with WvA's own personal goals impeding on the yellow jersey fight.

And ironically, throwing the "Roglic cannot beat Pogacar in the Tour" card at Roglic can also be used against WvA as well, specifically in the world championships. It's not like he's ever beaten Alaphilippe in a WC RR before, right? Yet in Belgium, WvA demanded total team leadership.

But like I said, these arguments exist only among fans because Roglic himself via his gracious attitude ensures WvA's questionable press statements never cause disruption (& if WvA is given too much power, support & freedom in the Tour to the detriment of Roglic, it's ultimately Jumbo's own mistake).

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

In reality Primoz Roglic seems to really like Wout van Aert so it's all a moot point (he's always posting stuff on Instagram which shows total respect towards WvA). But someone not as magnanimous & nice as Roglic might have had some issues with WvA's own personal goals impeding on the yellow jersey fight.

And ironically, throwing the "Roglic cannot beat Pogacar in the Tour" card at Roglic can also be used against WvA as well, specifically in the world championships. It's not like he's ever beaten Alaphilippe in a WC RR before, right? Yet in Belgium, WvA demanded total team leadership.

But like I said, these arguments exist only among fans because Roglic himself via his gracious attitude ensures WvA's questionable press statements never cause disruption (& if WvA is given too much power, support & freedom in the Tour to the detriment of Roglic, it's ultimately Jumbo's own mistake).

That's a pretty stupid comparison. Winning a one-day race when you're the absolute best, is sometimes harder than winning it when you're one of the lesser favorites. If you're the absolute best in a 3 week GT, you either win or you crash out.

 

[Jagartrott]

Really strange to be berating someone who worked his ass off for Roglic countless times during le Tour (flat roads, hills, mountains). Van Aert is a prime candidate for green, so asking for one extra guy in support who could also help ease Van Aert's task on flat roads vis-a-vis Roglic doesn't seem outrageous to me.