Teams & Riders Official Wout Van Aert thread

[Valv.Piti]

They need to hit Liege with that Amstel-treatment. Every bigger race right now lives up to its potential (think how good/great Flanders, Strade, Roubaix, E-3, Amstel, Lombardia is every year). MSR we all know what is and its fine. Fleche, all about the Mur, fine. But Liege really rubs me the wrong way, its horrible.

 

[Netserk]

They need to hit Liege with that Amstel-treatment. Every bigger race right now lives up to its potential (think how good/great Flanders, Strade, Roubaix, E-3, Amstel, Lombardia is every year). MSR we all know what is and its fine. Fleche, all about the Mur, fine. But Liege really rubs me the wrong way, its horrible.

The most minimal change with the greatest gain would be to descend Sart-Tilman after RaF and climb Colonster (used in 2013) back to the route as it is now.

 

[Red Rick]

I want Targnon and then all soft hills after. Maybe keep Redoute.

 

[Blanco]

The most minimalist change with the greatest gain would be to descend Sart-Tilman after RaF and climb Colonster (used in 2013) back to the route as it is now.

Agree, that would be good addition

 

[CyclistAbi]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1514903393445289987

View: https://twitter.com/JumboVismaRoad/status/1514903393445289987

 

[senna6541]

Well, just watched the Wout interview. Very hard guy to root against - as he seems about as grounded a person as anyone at his "elite of the elite" level can be. But the same can be said for MVDP and I'll be rooting for him on Sunday. Wouldn't be surprised to see a very strong Wout though.

 

[OlavEH]

They need to hit Liege with that Amstel-treatment. Every bigger race right now lives up to its potential (think how good/great Flanders, Strade, Roubaix, E-3, Amstel, Lombardia is every year). MSR we all know what is and its fine. Fleche, all about the Mur, fine. But Liege really rubs me the wrong way, its horrible.

You are not satiesfied with the changes already made to the LBL route?

 

[CyclistAbi]

Paris-Roubaix win will come. Some great racing in 2022 edition.

 

[Eeslliw]

Wout's biggest weakness: tactics. He was doing some semi attacks in leading group which only resulted in him burning some energy. Then, as per usual, he covered first 3 attacks from leading group. One time he basically sprinted from last position to cover some meme attack. At that time, there were 2 INEOS guys in the group, and if he had one job was to cover if one of them attacked, because the other will just sit and get free ride. But nah, Van Baarle attacked and he let him go. Game over.

 

[Valv.Piti]

You are not satiesfied with the changes already made to the LBL route?

Im glad that they tried to mix it up since something clearly wasnt working on the old route. But it still isn't a great race to watch most times, and Liege should be a great watch every time. So points for trying, but it needs more tweeks.

I just get nostalgic remembering watching Liege in the late 00's, very early 10's, those were some great races, and now its basically just Rouche aux Faucons.

 

[Bonimenier]

Im glad that they tried to mix it up since something clearly wasnt working on the old route. But it still isn't a great race to watch most times, and Liege should be a great watch every time. So points for trying, but it needs more tweeks.

I just get nostalgic remembering watching Liege in the late 00's, very early 10's, those were some great races, and now its basically just Rouche aux Faucons.

Hopefully with Pogacar already having it on his palmares and Evenepoel having to attack earlier to play a role, it'll be a more open race sooner, but my hopes aren't that high.

 

[tobydawq]

Im glad that they tried to mix it up since something clearly wasnt working on the old route. But it still isn't a great race to watch most times, and Liege should be a great watch every time. So points for trying, but it needs more tweeks.

I just get nostalgic remembering watching Liege in the late 00's, very early 10's, those were some great races, and now its basically just Rouche aux Faucons.

How were those races great???

There hasn't been a great edition of LBL in this century.

 

[Valv.Piti]

I specifically remember years like 2008, 2009, and 2011 as some of the races with moves being made quite further out than these years. At least it was better than more recent editions, wouldnt you agree?

 

[tobydawq]

I specifically remember years like 2008, 2009, and 2011 as some of the races with moves being made quite further out than these years. At least it was better than more recent editions, wouldnt you agree?

Andy Schleck attacked on Roche-aux-Faucons when he won, didn't he? That was the first time, the climb was introduced. If he attacked earlier, my bad, but I don't think La Redoute has been relevant since before Pogacar was born.*

* Vinokuorov and Voigt had attacked way earlier than that in 2005.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Yes, but Roche Aux Faucons was further out back then when you had to do Nicolas and Ans..

 

[tobydawq]

Yes, but Roche Aux Faucons was further out back then when you had to do Nicolas and Ans..

Not that much. And that was only changed in 2019.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Looks like van Aert is doing Liège-Bastogne-Liège. Considering the current form and the fact Rogla is not participating this year. I feel that is a good choice.

 

[Andre]

Great race Wout. You're the still the strongest and most consistent rider this year.

 

[OlavEH]

I specifically remember years like 2008, 2009, and 2011 as some of the races with moves being made quite further out than these years. At least it was better than more recent editions, wouldnt you agree?

The route back then had RAF at about 20 km before finish, Saint Nicolas with 6 km left and then the finish climb to Ans. That was about the same route that also prompted a lot of versions where not much happened until the last climb. So the route needed a change. And with the new route we have one solo win and two versions with small groups with the best hilly climbers. So it have worked to a certain degree. If you want more action even further from the finish, you probably need to remove RAF and make Redoute the last "big" climb. But then followed by a couple of easier climbs and probably also with a different lead-in to Redoute than today's version.

 

[Ricco']

The route back then had RAF at about 20 km before finish, Saint Nicolas with 6 km left and then the finish climb to Ans. That was about the same route that also prompted a lot of versions where not much happened until the last climb. So the route needed a change. And with the new route we have one solo win and two versions with small groups with the best hilly climbers. So it have worked to a certain degree. If you want more action even further from the finish, you probably need to remove RAF and make Redoute the last "big" climb. But then followed by a couple of easier climbs and probably also with a different lead-in to Redoute than today's version.

Although the significant attack for the win has been made further from the finish than usual with the old route, I feel that this new route reduces the variability of possible outcomes.

With the old route we had three possible ways to define the winner. Attack at RaF (Andy'2009 or Jungels'2018 for example - and almost Nibali in 2012), attack at Saint-Nicolas aor small group arriving together in Ans and either attacking in the last 1.5km or sprinting for the win.

Although the trend has been to have a bigger group arriving together in Saint-Nicolas or even at the climb to Ans, I think the old route had more potential to different outcomes than this one, where it's a race of attrition until RaF and the winning move will almost certainly be made there.

 

[samhocking]

Great race Wout. You're the still the strongest and most consistent rider this year.

I'm not sure I can agree he's been the strongest. He's without a monument after 3 attempts. I feel while he is consistently at a high level, jumbo tries to keep him permanently at a high level compared to the more typical 3 or 4 key peaks we see in other one day specialists. We have to put into perspective, his stage racing performance has been far superior to his one day so far this year in terms of actually crossing a line first.

 

[OlavEH]

Although the significant attack for the win has been made further from the finish than usual with the old route, I feel that this new route reduces the variability of possible outcomes.

With the old route we had three possible ways to define the winner. Attack at RaF (Andy'2009 or Jungels'2018 for example - and almost Nibali in 2012), attack at Saint-Nicolas aor small group arriving together in Ans and either attacking in the last 1.5km or sprinting for the win.

Although the trend has been to have a bigger group arriving together in Saint-Nicolas or even at the climb to Ans, I think the old route had more potential to different outcomes than this one, where it's a race of attrition until RaF and the winning move will almost certainly be made there.

Have there ever been a big and decisive attack on Saint-Nicolas? I can't remember that.

And even though the old route had more potential outcomes, most of the versions ended up with not much action before the las kms. The current route is better than the old one. If one should make any changes from the current route, I see two possible options.

1. Add Colonster after RaF like suggested above. That would move RaF from about 13-14 km from the finish to 22-23 km.
2. Remove RaF and make Redoute the last big climb. Then you would need a couple of easier climbs after Redoute. I mapped a version putting the top of Redoute about 25 km from the finish. Then it was followed by Les Forges and Cote d'Embourg. Perhaps you would need a different lead-in to Redoute then you have today.

I would prefer option 1, even though it would be interesting to see a couple of editions of option 2.

 

[Boes]

I'm not sure I can agree he's been the strongest. He's without a monument after 3 attempts. I feel while he is consistently at a high level, jumbo tries to keep him permanently at a high level compared to the more typical 3 or 4 key peaks we see in other one day specialists. We have to put into perspective, his stage racing performance has been far superior to his one day so far this year in terms of actually crossing a line first.

Well that's bit of a leap.

1. MSR: he was not yet 100% which was calculated because he wanted to peak further on
2. RVV: pass because of covid
3. PR: finished second, if it wasn't because of fantastic coup by Ineos chances he could have won eventhough we can't expect him to be 100% because of the recent Covid contamination
4. Who knows, he might win LBL and get a monument after all

 

[Red Rick]

If anything I feel like yesterday simply proves he was clearly off peak at key moments of last year.

If he recovers well from Roubaix I think he has a good shot at Liege. Roglic' absence, as well as say Dumoulin in like 2020 form will make it harder for Van Aert though. Especially Roglic' presence would benefit the both of them.

 

[samhocking]

Well that's bit of a leap.

1. MSR: he was not yet 100% which was calculated because he wanted to peak further on
2. RVV: pass because of covid
3. PR: finished second, if it wasn't because of fantastic coup by Ineos chances he could have won eventhough we can't expect him to be 100% because of the recent Covid contamination
4. Who knows, he might win LBL and get a monument after all

I'm not sure excuses/explanations for not being the strongest makes you the strongest. In terms of races, Van Baarle is actually winning and placing more consistently higher in bigger races. But he has the team, Jumbo not so good in one day, that's why I said, his stage racing performances this year have been far superior to one day.