Teams & Riders Official Wout Van Aert thread

[Valv.Piti]

I don't blame van Aert for calls made by the team.

But if there's a day where Vingegaard could have used someone who pulled 7 W/kg for 3 minutes it might have been today.

Yes, but that kinda required Vingegaard actually believing he could drop Pogacar today which he clearly didn't..

 

[Volderke]

I don't blame van Aert for calls made by the team.

But if there's a day where Vingegaard could have used someone who pulled 7 W/kg for 3 minutes it might have been today.

I honestly don't understand what WvA could have done for Vingegaard today.
1. Vingegaard couldn't drop Pogacar and vice versa. If that wasn't clear, I don't understand anything about bike racing anymore. I've had guys trying to drop me in a race and the moment I got back in the wheel, is the hardest moment to counterattack unless you're clearly better. Vingegaard didn't, because he wasn't better.
2. The moment WvA crossed the line, Vingegaard had 6 minutes to go (about 2K). Any pacing for 2K at 9% would have been pretty useless if Vingegaard was dropped.

So the only theoretical moment WvA could have helped Vingegaard, was earlier in the race, e.g. on the Aravis if Vingegaard got separation there and WvA was waiting to pace Vingegaard to the bottom of the last climb. The problem with Aravis is that it isn't very steep, and if you would try this on e.g. the Croix-Fry, then WvA should pace harder on Aravis than Pogacar can chase, which is quite irrealistic. The only other place for such an attack with pacing by WvA could have been the last 3K of Forclaz, but the descent is tricky and dangerous, and not a good place to try and consolidate a gap.

 

[Peyroteo94]

He is not going to win a stage unless he starts to fight and care about sprint stages. And he is heading to have the worst season of his road career without one big win. His baby will born during the worlds so there is a chance he might not participate in Glasgow.

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

He is not going to win a stage unless he starts to fight and care about sprint stages. And he is heading to have the worst season of his road career without one big win. His baby will born during the worlds so there is a chance he might not participate in Glasgow.

I often think your posts regarding WVA are overly harsh, but this one is spot on.

 

[Red Rick]

The one thing is he said he would take it easier than last year with his eye on the Worlds. Breakaways like today I don't imagine help very much.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Wva is a thermonuclear donkey . He is the opposite of Nibali, the opposite of a rider who knows how to create and make opportunities in different scenarios. His physiology presents him with unlimited opportunities for big wins and he continues to squander them and waste. Not because he has style or charisma and knows how to party. Which would make it acceptable. But because he just rides his bike like a donkey, go to the front of whatever group you are in and push your best watts, don't look for the right moves or time your attacks, just put the head down and push. In the classics he just pulls for a sprint . Now in le tour he does everyday stupid breakaways on random stage which don't suit him and just pulls the breakaway far away from his gc leader. it's bizarre how many fans he has

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

The one thing is he said he would take it easier than last year with his eye on the Worlds. Breakaways like today I don't imagine help very much.

He clearly let Poels win.

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

Wva is a thermonuclear donkey . He is the opposite of Nibali, the opposite of a rider who knows how to create and make opportunities in different scenarios. His physiology presents him with unlimited opportunities for big wins and he continues to squander them and waste. Not because he has style or charisma and knows how to party. Which would make it acceptable. But because he just rides his bike like a donkey, go to the front of whatever group you are in and push your best watts, don't look for the right moves or time your attacks, just put the head down and push. In the classics he just pulls for a sprint . Now in le tour he does everyday stupid breakaways on random stage which don't suit him and just pulls the breakaway far away from his gc leader. it's bizarre how many fans he has

...okay, Forum Pozzato.

 

[Volderke]

The one thing is he said he would take it easier than last year with his eye on the Worlds. Breakaways like today I don't imagine help very much.

That's one thing I don't understand either;
When he said he would take it easier this year, I expected him to pick out max. 5 stages he would try winning (let's say 2-3 sprints and 2-3 breakaway stages).

It seems he is targeting (or at least working / doing crazy things) every single stage bar maybe 2-3 for the last 2 weeks and he isn't going anywhere in terms of winning stages.

Either he must be an ET that needs hard breakaways to improve (or deteriorate less than the competition), as in: if he stays in the belly of the peloton, his peak form will go down.
Most likely he is spending more or less the same level of energy as last year, and he didn't come out of that Tour very well.

 

[Ripper]

That's one thing I don't understand either;
When he said he would take it easier this year, I expected him to pick out max. 5 stages he would try winning (let's say 2-3 sprints and 2-3 breakaway stages).

It seems he is targeting (or at least working / doing crazy things) every single stage bar maybe 2-3 for the last 2 weeks and he isn't going anywhere in terms of winning stages.

Either he must be an ET that needs hard breakaways to improve (or deteriorate less than the competition), as in: if he stays in the belly of the peloton, his peak form will go down.
Most likely he is spending more or less the same level of energy as last year, and he didn't come out of that Tour very well.

Perhaps he is thinking of this as a 3-week training camp (not saying what he is doing makes a whole lotta sense)

 

[Red Rick]

That's one thing I don't understand either;
When he said he would take it easier this year, I expected him to pick out max. 5 stages he would try winning (let's say 2-3 sprints and 2-3 breakaway stages).

It seems he is targeting (or at least working / doing crazy things) every single stage bar maybe 2-3 for the last 2 weeks and he isn't going anywhere in terms of winning stages.

Either he must be an ET that needs hard breakaways to improve (or deteriorate less than the competition), as in: if he stays in the belly of the peloton, his peak form will go down.
Most likely he is spending more or less the same level of energy as last year, and he didn't come out of that Tour very well.

Only thing that makes sense is if his pre Tour training schedule was lighter.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I often think your posts regarding WVA are overly harsh, but this one is spot on.

I like him even if I have mocked him sometimes. I just don't like how some people think he is on the same level as MVP (my second favourite rider) when he can't beat him in monuments. Of course he is a lot better in GT's than MVP but he needs to improve his weaknesses in order to win more monuments. Sagan had the problem everyone was riding against him, fortunately WVA doesn't have this problem but he is tactically inept and if he wants to win more monuments, you can't just ride on numbers (his two biggest rivals are freaking monsters too) and despite his amazing (and unlucky) Roubaix performance, his other performances are not perfect tactically. In the Tour, he is riding very badly, a little bit like Alaphillippe, just go on the break every single time and doesn't try to hide one single time. Today he gifted a stage win to Poels because he despises everyone bar Pogacar, MVP, Remco and maybe other 2 or 3 riders (I really feel he thinks he is so much better than 99% of riders that he just needs to push hard and he will drop everyone bar those giys I mentioned). What was he thinking today for example? He really thought he had a chance against Poels? It is just stupid, Poels already showed his climbing ability multiple times, he is not a random dude who brings bottles to his teammates.

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

I like him even if I have mocked him sometimes. I just don't like how some people think he is on the same level as MVP (my second favourite rider) when he can't beat him in monuments. Of course he is a lot better in GT's than MVP but he needs to improve his weaknesses in order to win more monuments. Sagan had the problem everyone was riding against him, fortunately WVA doesn't have this problem but he is tactically inept and if he wants to win more monuments, you can't just ride on numbers (his two biggest rivals are freaking monsters too) and despite his amazing (and unlucky) Roubaix performance, his other performances are not perfect tactically. In the Tour, he is riding very badly, a little bit like Alaphillippe, just go on the break every single time and doesn't try to hide one single time. Today he gifted a stage win to Poels because he despises everyone bar Pogacar, MVP, Remco and maybe other 2 or 3 riders (I really feel he thinks he is so much better than 99% of riders that he just needs to push hard and he will drop everyone bar those giys I mentioned). What was he thinking today for example? He really thought he had a chance against Poels? It is just stupid, Poels already showed his climbing ability multiple times, he is not a random dude who brings bottles to his teammates.

Of all his criticisms, this is the one that I see as his real weakness. I agree with your assessment today. I kept watching him pull the break (and attack on the downhill), and kept thiking that he was doomed to losing...and wondering why he didn't just drop back and help Jonas. He expended energy for no good purpose, today. At least in the previous break attempts, he was there for Jonas, in the end. Not today.

Still, his return to the front yesterday, to flick Majka, was pretty funny to watch. That was the moement of the Tour for me, in regards to Wout.

I am a fan...I have also been consisently disappointed since late CX season this year. There's something more than just tactical ineptness, that is missing (though he completely botched the sprint at CX Worlds...which he could have won if he'd just nailed it form the bottom). I am wondering if there is something more, mentally missing. Maybe he needs a new start, with another team?

 

[Blanco]

...okay, Forum Pozzato.

He's right though...

 

[Volderke]

I like him even if I have mocked him sometimes. I just don't like how some people think he is on the same level as MVP (my second favourite rider) when he can't beat him in monuments. Of course he is a lot better in GT's than MVP but he needs to improve his weaknesses in order to win more monuments. Sagan had the problem everyone was riding against him, fortunately WVA doesn't have this problem but he is tactically inept and if he wants to win more monuments, you can't just ride on numbers (his two biggest rivals are freaking monsters too) and despite his amazing (and unlucky) Roubaix performance, his other performances are not perfect tactically. In the Tour, he is riding very badly, a little bit like Alaphillippe, just go on the break every single time and doesn't try to hide one single time. Today he gifted a stage win to Poels because he despises everyone bar Pogacar, MVP, Remco and maybe other 2 or 3 riders (I really feel he thinks he is so much better than 99% of riders that he just needs to push hard and he will drop everyone bar those giys I mentioned). What was he thinking today for example? He really thought he had a chance against Poels? It is just stupid, Poels already showed his climbing ability multiple times, he is not a random dude who brings bottles to his teammates.

Two remarks:

1. If you think Wva is better off than Sagan in terms of being marked, watch the Tokyo Olympics again.
2. Wva tried to get rid of the better climbers near the top of the Aravis but he couldn’t get rid of Poels (who is also a great descender). Wva did this tactically almost perfect (getting rid of better climbers), but Poels was alert and he is naturally the better climber. I wouldn’t say Wva made many mistakes today; it was just not his best terrain and he would have to be very lucky to get rid of all the good climbers, and he almost managed this by (finally) applying good tactics. The difference with alaphilippe: Wva has much better legs. I don’t know what happened with alaphilippe, but he clearly doesn’t have it this Tour.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Two remarks:

1. If you think Wva is better off than Sagan in terms of being marked, watch the Tokyo Olympics again.
2. Wva tried to get rid of the better climbers near the top of the Aravis but he couldn’t get rid of Poels (who is also a great descender). Wva did this tactically almost perfect (getting rid of better climbers), but Poels was alert and he is naturally the better climber. I wouldn’t say Wva made many mistakes today; it was just not his best terrain and he would have to be very lucky to get rid of all the good climbers, and he almost managed this by (finally) applying good tactics. The difference with alaphilippe: Wva has much better legs. I don’t know what happened with alaphilippe, but he clearly doesn’t have it this Tour.

Seriously, if Sagan had half the team WVA has, he would win a couple more monuments. And WVA never was marked like Sagan, it was almost every race year after year.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Wva is a thermonuclear donkey . He is the opposite of Nibali, the opposite of a rider who knows how to create and make opportunities in different scenarios. His physiology presents him with unlimited opportunities for big wins and he continues to squander them and waste. Not because he has style or charisma and knows how to party. Which would make it acceptable. But because he just rides his bike like a donkey, go to the front of whatever group you are in and push your best watts, don't look for the right moves or time your attacks, just put the head down and push. In the classics he just pulls for a sprint . Now in le tour he does everyday stupid breakaways on random stage which don't suit him and just pulls the breakaway far away from his gc leader. it's bizarre how many fans he has

Lol

 

[saunaking]

Sad, but true.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

Wva is a thermonuclear donkey . He is the opposite of Nibali, the opposite of a rider who knows how to create and make opportunities in different scenarios. His physiology presents him with unlimited opportunities for big wins and he continues to squander them and waste. Not because he has style or charisma and knows how to party. Which would make it acceptable. But because he just rides his bike like a donkey, go to the front of whatever group you are in and push your best watts, don't look for the right moves or time your attacks, just put the head down and push. In the classics he just pulls for a sprint . Now in le tour he does everyday stupid breakaways on random stage which don't suit him and just pulls the breakaway far away from his gc leader. it's bizarre how many fans he has

Why does he has many fans? Maybe not because of his potential wins, or how smart he races but for the racing he creates?

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

He's right though...

Forum Jimmy Engoulvent^

 

[senna6541]

A one-day freak like Wout should not be on a team whose number one goal is to win GC at the TDF. He's completely wasting his time (actually worse, his career) being the "look how incredibly strong this guy is" guy at the TDF. I don't live in Belgium, but don't the real bike racing fans there (vs. most cycling fans in the US who only watch the TDF) actually value guys who win monuments, classics and WC's? As an MVDP fan I enjoyed watching him roll in today 18 minutes behind the winner looking like he made a nice deposit for the WC's in a couple three weeks...

 

[Kaptain Kool]

People can criticize WvA but the fact is he gets onto the camera hours on end every single stage and makes people talk about him non-stop. Possibly as much as the top 2 in GC, and 100 times more than the guy who won the stage whose name I can't remember anymore but know that he also won a single monument.

 

[IndianCyclist]

A one-day freak like Wout should not be on a team whose number one goal is to win GC at the TDF. He's completely wasting his time (actually worse, his career) being the "look how incredibly strong this guy is" guy at the TDF. I don't live in Belgium, but don't the real bike racing fans there (vs. most cycling fans in the US who only watch the TDF) actually value guys who win monuments, classics and WC's? As an MVDP fan I enjoyed watching him roll in today 18 minutes behind the winner looking like he made a nice deposit for the WC's in a couple three weeks...

Remco to Ineos and WVA to Quickstep should right everything w.r.t teams

 

[Volderke]

Seriously, if Sagan had half the team WVA has, he would win a couple more monuments. And WVA never was marked like Sagan, it was almost every race year after year.

The competition Sagan had in classics in his prime ((2015-2017) in Flanders was Kristoff, Terpstra and GvA. I forget the formidable Sepp Vanmarcke.

Wva only has mvdp and pogacar… easy to beat those!

Ps: Sagan was, in his prime, a more explosive rider than Wva will ever be. He has that thermonuclear explosion. Wva hasn’t. Wva has something like the very best turbodiesel there is: indestructible and it keeps going, but it’s still “only” a diesel, no nitrogen packs like mvdp or Sagan. Wva is much more marked in relation of the wins he has, compared to Sagan. And Wva is much more visible in both his yellow kit + Red Bull helmet and Belgian nationals kit. When Sagan won the worlds in the USA, he wasn’t visible / recognizable until he was gone. That would never happen with a tall killer bee / Belgian kit Wva. He’s just too visible. The other reason Wva is marked, is his own fault: when he’s good / favorite, he can’t stop riding in the first 10 or even 5 of the peloton / his group. In this way he is super vulnerable if he has to cover attacks (which he does).
Again, watch the Tokyo Olympics to witness the most marked rider in recent history.

 

[Gargamel35]

He's an incredible rider that doesn't win a lot.