Olympics Doping Thread

[rata de sentina]

Re: Re:

Huh?

Well at least you're consistent. I'll give you that.

 

[rata de sentina]

Re: Re:

Yes, I am throwing a blanket of sorts. I think it's fair to do that.

Sure. I get that. You think no athletes should criticise convicted dopers because you think they are all doping.

That's a blanket that's really going to stifle doping discussion. You seem quite fixated on Efimova as being hard done by, not sure why. Obviously she's hotter than Sun Yang despite having a worse history. She's already been pinged once for steroids.

 

[jens_attacks]

Lol at the anglos, i hope no one believes their crrap.

 

[The Hegelian]

Re:

Well, how the clinic has declined. After years and years of bemoaning omerta and the reluctance of other athletes to speak out.

Now all of a sudden there's a deluge of athletes ripping into dopers. Not just US and Aus but this French guy Lacourt went absolutely ballistic "Sun Yang, he pisses purple," LOL

So do the clinic posters welcome this new openness. No. This thread is enfeebled as apologists attack the messenger as either hypocritical or being too harsh on undeserving dopers. Meldonium not so bad - what a crock.

Really it seems like the LAF interns have been replaced by their Russian and Chinese counterparts.

I'm finding it all extremely interesting, but I have to admit it is forcing me to reconsider my views. I've never really seen athletes so publically calling other athletes out for doping.....and it ain't pretty.

The cycling omerta - well, it suddenly looks extraordinarily civilized compared to the trash talking in the pool.

When there is a corrupt institutional doping stench in the air (it's simply universal in sport now, isn't it?).....maybe it's better to just carry on perpetrating the various illusions, in polite silence. More humane that way.

 

[Lyon]

Re: Re:

Well, how the clinic has declined. After years and years of bemoaning omerta and the reluctance of other athletes to speak out.

Now all of a sudden there's a deluge of athletes ripping into dopers. Not just US and Aus but this French guy Lacourt went absolutely ballistic "Sun Yang, he pisses purple," LOL

So do the clinic posters welcome this new openness. No. This thread is enfeebled as apologists attack the messenger as either hypocritical or being too harsh on undeserving dopers. Meldonium not so bad - what a crock.

Really it seems like the LAF interns have been replaced by their Russian and Chinese counterparts.

I'm finding it all extremely interesting, but I have to admit it is forcing me to reconsider my views. I've never really seen athletes so publically calling other athletes out for doping.....and it ain't pretty.

The cycling omerta - well, it suddenly looks extraordinarily civilized compared to the trash talking in the pool.

When there is a corrupt institutional doping stench in the air (it's simply universal in sport now, isn't it?).....maybe it's better to just carry on perpetrating the various illusions, in polite silence. More humane that way.

As you imply, the air has become ever more thick with the stench of institutional doping, which is why athletes calling out other athletes is not enough anymore - the window of opportunity has closed. Besides, it was never about the whatbut about the how and the when.

 

[mjreck]

Re:

Well, how the clinic has declined. After years and years of bemoaning omerta and the reluctance of other athletes to speak out.

Now all of a sudden there's a deluge of athletes ripping into dopers. Not just US and Aus but this French guy Lacourt went absolutely ballistic "Sun Yang, he pisses purple," LOL

So do the clinic posters welcome this new openness. No. This thread is enfeebled as apologists attack the messenger as either hypocritical or being too harsh on undeserving dopers. Meldonium not so bad - what a crock.

Really it seems like the LAF interns have been replaced by their Russian and Chinese counterparts.

But what specifically has King done to break any omerta? All she's done is pointed out Efimova failed doping tests and shouldn't be allowed compete.

She hasn't mentioned anything we don't know.
She hasn't gone to the authorities with evidence or accusations.
She hasn't mentioned any other swimmer caught doping, or anything behind the scenes the public wouldn't see or know about.

No, she wrapped herself in the American flag, berated a direct Russian competitor, and lapped up the praise from a load of gormless ultra-nationalists. All while swimming faster than any of the dastardly dopers ever did.

Oh, and did she mention Efimovas been training for several years in the US, and her American coach trained 5 American swimmers to medals at the last olympics?

The whole affair stinks, just like the whole of the Olympics, so excuse me if some of us don't fall over fawning to her, or any other athletes who do the strong talking BS on doping.

 

[TMP402]

Re: Re:

But what specifically has King done to break any omerta? All she's done is pointed out Efimova failed doping tests and shouldn't be allowed compete.

LOL

 

[BullsFan22]

Re: Re:

Yes, I am throwing a blanket of sorts. I think it's fair to do that.

Sure. I get that. You think no athletes should criticise convicted dopers because you think they are all doping.

That's a blanket that's really going to stifle doping discussion. You seem quite fixated on Efimova as being hard done by, not sure why. Obviously she's hotter than Sun Yang despite having a worse history. She's already been pinged once for steroids.

Myself, and I am willing to bet the majority of us here, that aren't falling for the "King trap," aren't saying that 'Efimova has never tested positive, and that she shouldn't be questioned,' we are simply stating that given the nature of professional sports these days, particularly at the highest levels (world's, olympics), some of us don't see how one talented, obviously world class fit athlete can beat another talented, obviously world class fit athlete who has a history of doping, being clean. All of this as the former is part of a team that's been a part of the festivities in breaking world and olympic records in Rio. I am fairly certain that nobody here is questioning whether or not Russians are or were doping, we just don't believe in unicorns. That goes for track and field, another dope fest. Thankfully, the Russians aren't there, otherwise we wouldn't hear the end of it from all the anti-doping heroes. Instead, we'll get to witness more glory from Mo and his collection of merry men and the Salazar gang (I could go on forever with track and field, but that would be redundant, at least I'll wait until those events start).

 

[buckle]

Re:

Lol at the anglos, i hope no one believes their crrap.

The Brits are the worst. At least you can reason with the Americans (their country was set up for that purpose). As a famous German spin doctor said many years ago of the British - when they lie they lie big.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re: Re:

Lol at the anglos, i hope no one believes their crrap.

The Brits are the worst. At least you can reason with the Americans (their country was set up for that purpose). As a famous German spin doctor said many years ago of the British - when they lie they lie big.

Haha. I always hesitate to agree with any German spin doctors (if you get my drift), but that I can believe!

 

[TheGreenMonkey]

Re: Re:

The Australian - USA swimming union that they are clean and beating those dirty Chinese and Russians is going very strong. Lilly King on Australian television celebrating her and Mack Horton's wins as wins for the good guys.

And yet. King goes after an American. https://twitter.com/BryanAGraham/status/762854066632335365

Yes, I heard about that later, I guess she should be given credit for not being biased and the consistency in her stance, but if she dopes then that credit goes away.

 

[gooner]

Always amusing when other athletes vehemently call out past dopers (or Russians), as if there was persuasive evidence they're clean themselves.

How can they show this evidence then?

 

[Winnats]

Re: Re:

Lol at the anglos, i hope no one believes their crrap.

The Brits are the worst. At least you can reason with the Americans (their country was set up for that purpose). As a famous German spin doctor said many years ago of the British - when they lie they lie big.

Haha. I always hesitate to agree with any German spin doctors (if you get my drift), but that I can believe!

Hesistating to agree with Dr Joseph Goebbels is probably wise, on balance.

 

[sniper]

There are few athletes who have had to worry about antidoping less than usain bolt has.
That guy is more protected than Obama.

 

[djpbaltimore]

Re:

I always love it when some here manage to talk themselves around to a position where the real villains are the athletes who criticise obvious dopers. It's genuinely one of the most entertaining things about this board.

Good point. But if the nationalities were reversed, I think the response would also be quite different.

There has always been open doping talk/ accusations by swimmers, so the King example is not too surprising. Michelle Smith being one prime example from the past.

 

[chuuurles]

intetesting:

http://m.bbc.com/sport/olympics/37019143

 

[hfer07]

So.... now USA team is using "cupping" for "marginal gains" it seems.....

http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2016/8/7/12399978/cupping-why-olympic-athletes-rio-2016-spots-circles-michael-phelps

 

[jmdirt]

Its kind of funny that the entire premise of this topic is people calling athletes out for doping, but when athletes call the cheats out they get criticized...WTH?! Plus, over the years Omerta has been hammered, but now that athletes are breaking Omerta, the forumites are telling them to shut up...WTH?!

 

[Benotti69]

Always amusing when other athletes vehemently call out past dopers (or Russians), as if there was persuasive evidence they're clean themselves.

How can they show this evidence then?

By telling everyone that testing is a joke!

 

[buckle]

Re: Re:

I always love it when some here manage to talk themselves around to a position where the real villains are the athletes who criticise obvious dopers. It's genuinely one of the most entertaining things about this board.

Good point. But if the nationalities were reversed, I think the response would also be quite different.

There has always been open doping talk/ accusations by swimmers, so the King example is not too surprising. Michelle Smith being one prime example from the past.

An Irish swimmer is an easy target in the West. At least she had enough humility, like Indurain, to disappear.

 

[gooner]

I don't think Janet Evans saw her as an easy target.

She saw it as legit concerns.

 

[gooner]

Always amusing when other athletes vehemently call out past dopers (or Russians), as if there was persuasive evidence they're clean themselves.

How can they show this evidence then?

By telling everyone that testing is a joke!

As if that would be enough around here.

Persuasive evidence was referenced as statements and calling out dopers isn't deemed sufficient enough.

I would like to know what this evidence is.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

I always love it when some here manage to talk themselves around to a position where the real villains are the athletes who criticise obvious dopers. It's genuinely one of the most entertaining things about this board.

Good point. But if the nationalities were reversed, I think the response would also be quite different.

There has always been open doping talk/ accusations by swimmers, so the King example is not too surprising. Michelle Smith being one prime example from the past.

The Dutch Swimmer who whinged about Michelel Smith beating her obviously had no mirrors in her life as we could clearly see the steroid abuse in her.

FINA are as bad as any federation for their attitude to doping.

Lilly King is supposedly clean beating dopers. I don't think so.

 

[Benotti69]

Always amusing when other athletes vehemently call out past dopers (or Russians), as if there was persuasive evidence they're clean themselves.

How can they show this evidence then?

By telling everyone that testing is a joke!

As if that would be enough around here.

Persuasive evidence was referenced as statements and calling out dopers isn't deemed sufficient enough.

Have you seen the IOCs attitude to doping?

Do you think coaches and federations are telling athletes, don't dope, you'll not win a medal but you will have your integrity?

 

[gooner]

Always amusing when other athletes vehemently call out past dopers (or Russians), as if there was persuasive evidence they're clean themselves.

How can they show this evidence then?

By telling everyone that testing is a joke!

As if that would be enough around here.

Persuasive evidence was referenced as statements and calling out dopers isn't deemed sufficient enough.

Have you seen the IOCs attitude to doping?

Do you think coaches and federations are telling athletes, don't dope, you'll not win a medal but you will have your integrity?

That's not what I said.

Someone mentioned persuasive evidence of being clean as if it can be done, where in the absence of it, you shouldn't call out dopers.