Opinion: Will Armstrong do jail time?

[Velocentric]

Wealth alone can't prevent someone from jail. We had a top-ranking politician in Germany. He even was an Earl and was raking in money. He sat in jail for some years because of tax fraud.

All I'm going to say in response to this is: Martin Erzinger.

Armstrong won't see the inside of a jail.

 

[oldschoolnik]

Why do you consider LA a fraud? This is what bugs me about the forum. You guys assume he is a fraud because he says he never did PEDs or never tested positive.

Based on this theory, every cyclist is a fraud because every cyclist must be doping. Therefore, we are all frauds.

How personally has LA (or any other top cyclist) personally affected you? You seem so angry...

I can't believe how much time and energy (me included) we waste on the subject of LA.

Mwbyrd,

Let me bring you up to speed here - The New York Times and Wall Street Journal have both reported that in addition to Floyd Landis (I assume you know who he is) at least 2 others on US Postal have confirmed systematic doping (that's Lance's old team).
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/05/sports/cycling/05armstrong.html

And yes, you are correct, since he has not only denied that he doped but also ruined people's careers just because they questioned that he might be doping (greg Lemond for example was hero to many before LA suggested that he was just bitter - before I knew that LA was a fraud I was ****ed at Lemond for a few years under I better understood what was going on) Now we know, that he had a sophisticated doping plan himself, so yes, he is a fraud and no not all pro cyclists are even close to as big a fraud as LA. There are many other far more reprehensible acts that LA is responsible and and if you are willing to read some of the links for about 20 mins you will understand why people may have some dislike for him.

 

[online-rider]

.........I would rather give the money they are LA as a prize pool for the riders instead. About a nice $1.5m cheque for first place, on top of that with the Aussie dollar that more or less has parity with the American dollar.

But without paying Lance his 1.5 youre not gonna have that 1.5 million to give away are you? The TDU without lance is like a sex pistols show without the sex pistols.

 

[oldschoolnik]

Don't discourage them. It's entertaining seeing how many different ways they can say the same thing over the years with such passion and conviction. Reminds me of my ex's arguments to limit my training time to 2 or 3 days a week.

Sometimes, people are so ignorant, you just have to repeat yourself. Like when you have to explain to a child that the tooth fairy or Santa Claus are not real. And yes, I have great passion for cycling.

 

[Race Radio]

Why do you consider LA a fraud? This is what bugs me about the forum. You guys assume he is a fraud because he says he never did PEDs or never tested positive.

Based on this theory, every cyclist is a fraud because every cyclist must be doping. Therefore, we are all frauds.

How personally has LA (or any other top cyclist) personally affected you? You seem so angry...

I can't believe how much time and energy (me included) we waste on the subject of LA.

Did every other cyclist write a book on how good their marriage while they were nailing everything that moved? Did they all tell the world that the reason they were fast and the others slow was because the others were lazy and did not weigh their pasta or care about what kind of bike they rode? Did they all give "Donations" to the UCI? Did they all exploit a disease as cover for their illicit activity? Did they all harass anyone who dared question the myth they had created? How many of them hired a PR firm to slime those that questioned the myth? How many hacked hacked email accounts? How many harassed staff until they had seizers?

There are few here that do not consider Riis, Basso, Pantani, etc's behavior fraudulent as well. To say the opposite is just a strawman. Countless posters, as well as champions like Fignon, Mottet, Lemond, Hampsten, etc have written about how the sport went through a dark period where your doctor was more important then your ability.

 

[jimmypop]

I don't have anything to add. I'll just leave this here:

 

[Dr. Maserati]

There is a lot of speculation as to what the current investigations reveal. As an opinion, I predict Novitzky will prove miracle boy lied during the SCA case. I presume lying to a civil court is still perjury. On that count alone, I voted yes

http://www.scribd.com/doc/31833754/Lance-Armstrong-Testimony

cheers to all

IMO no jailtime.
I don't see the Feds pursuing perjury from the SCA case. The only way I could see jailtime is if LA lied before a Grand Jury but again I don't expect him to be called before a GJ.

I think others will be more exposed to serious charges than LA - I expect his lawyers to get him out of jailtime if he is found guilty, but his legacy will be in tatters.

But without paying Lance his 1.5 you're not gonna have that 1.5 million to give away are you? The TDU without lance is like a sex pistols show without the sex pistols.

The World Championships were well received in Oz (& worldwide) without Armstrong, it shows that a quality event is not dependent on having big name stars.

 

[Race Radio]

I don't have anything to add. I'll just leave this here:

OK, I'll admit it. I had a thing for Linda back then..... we all did. She was the Hot Mom.

 

[Berzin]

Did every other cyclist write a book on how good their marriage while they were nailing everything that moved? Did they all tell the world that the reason they were fast and the others slow was because the others were lazy and did not weigh their pasta or care about what kind of bike they rode?

Did they all give "Donations" to the UCI? Did they all exploit a disease as cover for their illicit activity? Did they all harass anyone who dared question the myth they had created? How many of them hired a PR firm to slime those that questioned the myth? How many hacked hacked email accounts? How many harassed staff until they had seizures?

One thing I would like to add to this laundry list-why is it that the most meticulous, hardest-working man in the peloton doesn't have reliable physiological data to explain his incredible feats of strength?

Wanna know why? Because people would look at his power output during say, his little jaunt on the L'Alpe Duez time trial when he went past Ivan Basso as if he were standing still and would come to the same conclusions most rational cycling fans have come to a long time ago-"man, that must be some serious dope he's on".

 

[D-Queued]

One thing I would like to add to this laundry list-why is it that the most meticulous, hardest-working man in the peloton doesn't have reliable physiological data to explain his incredible feats of strength?

Wanna know why? Because people would look at his power output during say, his little jaunt on the L'Alpe Duez time trial when he went past Ivan Basso as if he were standing still and would come to the same conclusions most rational cycling fans have come to a long time ago-"man, that must be some serious dope he's on".

Ed Coyle?

: ROTFLMAO

(drying the tears) He has reliable physiological data. Fact (ok, based on knowledgeable hearsay from a recognized expert). Just not the kind he wants to share with anyone.

Dave.

 

[Berzin]

Ed Coyle?

(drying the tears) He has reliable physiological data. Fact (ok, based on knowledgeable hearsay from a recognized expert). Just not the kind he wants to share with anyone.

Ed Coyle...man, what a laugh.

Why doesn't Chris Carmichael post any of Armstrong's physiological parameters? He's been his coach for years and years, hasn't he? It would be interesting to compare his data pre and post-cancer.

 

[Dallas_]

Ed Coyle...man, what a laugh.

Why doesn't Chris Carmichael post any of Armstrong's physiological parameters? He's been his coach for years and years, hasn't he? It would be interesting to compare his data pre and post-cancer.

Actually berzin, I cannot deduce if Dave is joking or being sarcastic about Coyle in his post. No offense to Dave, but on reading Coyle's name I too could not stop laughing. Obviously at the time, Coyle deposited maximum saliva all over miracle boy.

http://www.sportsscientists.com/2008/09/coyle-and-armstrong-research-errors.html

From what I am reading in the clinic berzin, I tend to believe ferrari has been the 'coach' all along. If Chris Comical did have any early data, who apart from fan-boys would believe it? eg flick would. And Ferrari's data would all be post BOOSTER!

you wrote "It would be interesting to compare his data pre and post-cancer". Well if it was released, the data would be coyled!

As usual in this saga, a continuation of misinformation and lies. cheers

 

[thehog]

Actually berzin, I cannot deduce if Dave is joking or being sarcastic about Coyle in his post. No offense to Dave, but on reading Coyle's name I too could not stop laughing. Obviously at the time, Coyle deposited maximum saliva all over miracle boy.

http://www.sportsscientists.com/2008/09/coyle-and-armstrong-research-errors.html

From what I am reading in the clinic berzin, I tend to believe ferrari has been the 'coach' all along. If Chris Comical did have any early data, who apart from fan-boys would believe it? eg flick would. And Ferrari's data would all be post BOOSTER!

you wrote "It would be interesting to compare his data pre and post-cancer". Well if it was released, the data would be coyled!

As usual in this saga, a continuation of misinformation and lies. cheers

There are not many scientists who make statements like the following in their research:

"Lance also possesses is the 'drive' and 'mental toughness' needed to train very, very hard. Furthermore, he is intelligent and semi-scientific in his training making sure to focus on 'specificity', especially for France in July."

Yep that will do. Thanks Doc.

 

[veganrob]

There are not many scientists who make statements like the following in their research:

"Lance also possesses is the 'drive' and 'mental toughness' needed to train very, very hard. Furthermore, he is intelligent and semi-scientific in his training making sure to focus on 'specificity', especially for France in July."

Yep that will do. Thanks Doc.

I think you are getting off topic.
Sorry, just had to say that

I don't think the POS Lance will get any time. Can we just string him up by his one nut and beat him like a f***ing pinata?

I 'm not hating too much am I.

 

[Trond Vidar]

His bike did it for you

 

[jimbob_in_co]

All I'm going to say in response to this is: Martin Erzinger.

Armstrong won't see the inside of a jail.

Sadly true Velocentric, and like "Marty Jo" Erzinger, Lance will claim himself the victim in all of this 'witch hunting'.

And the other reason LA won't do time will be the use of this tried and true method of defense Jake Blues pleads his case

 

[BotanyBay]

He's already in jail. He cant live his life.

 

[sniper]

I always thought the Hulk was on PEDS, but couldn't find substantial evidence to bolster that claim.
Recently, however, photographic evidence has come available indicating that in his early years, and probably also afterwards, he used to cream up with Peanut Butter:
http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/Krazy_O/PeanutButter.jpg

 

[mwbyrd]

Mwbyrd,

Let me bring you up to speed here - The New York Times and Wall Street Journal have both reported that in addition to Floyd Landis (I assume you know who he is) at least 2 others on US Postal have confirmed systematic doping (that's Lance's old team).
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/05/sports/cycling/05armstrong.html

And yes, you are correct, since he has not only denied that he doped but also ruined people's careers just because they questioned that he might be doping (greg Lemond for example was hero to many before LA suggested that he was just bitter - before I knew that LA was a fraud I was ****ed at Lemond for a few years under I better understood what was going on) Now we know, that he had a sophisticated doping plan himself, so yes, he is a fraud and no not all pro cyclists are even close to as big a fraud as LA. There are many other far more reprehensible acts that LA is responsible and and if you are willing to read some of the links for about 20 mins you will understand why people may have some dislike for him.

My point is that most of the people on the forum have taken LA's past actions personally. He's called names, blamed for this or that and it's like people here have been personally affected.

Does it really matter if he took PEDS? It's pretty much proven that most cyclists of his generation were involved. Did he really defraud the public or the Postal Service?

How many people quit watching the races he was in? Not many. How much publicity did LA generate for US Postal? I'd imagine far more than they spent on sponsorship? So how did he defraud them?

As for LeMond, he could have kept quiet instead of personally attacking LA. I like LeMond, still repsect him as a cyclist, But his approach cost him more than it had too.

We all act like we were 'taken' by LA. Most of of ride and know how hard it is to do what the pros do and never really believed some of the performances. But it was fun to watch and is still fun to watch. The truth is...LA has done nothing but provide entertainment for millions and made his money, no difference from any other pro athlete or celebrity.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

My point is that most of the people on the forum have taken LA's past actions personally. He's called names, blamed for this or that and it's like people here have been personally affected.

Does it really matter if he took PEDS? It's pretty much proven that most cyclists of his generation were involved. Did he really defraud the public or the Postal Service?

How many people quit watching the races he was in? Not many. How much publicity did LA generate for US Postal? I'd imagine far more than they spent on sponsorship? So how did he defraud them?

As for LeMond, he could have kept quiet instead of personally attacking LA. I like LeMond, still repsect him as a cyclist, But his approach cost him more than it had too.

We all act like we were 'taken' by LA. Most of of ride and know how hard it is to do what the pros do and never really believed some of the performances. But it was fun to watch and is still fun to watch. The truth is...LA has done nothing but provide entertainment for millions and made his money, no difference from any other pro athlete or celebrity.

Really?? Can you name another rider who has paid 'donations' to the UCI?
What other GC contenders had the services of Dr. Ferrari from 99?

Why when you agree that Armstrong is a doper do you feel he should escape sanction like everyone else?

LeMond? Well as you believe LA took PEDs then what did he say that was wrong and why should he keep quiet about it?

 

[jimbob_in_co]

LA has done nothing but provide entertainment for millions and made his money, no difference from any other pro athlete or celebrity.

Actually he has used his medical history (and the suffering/hope/donations of countless cancer patients) to generate a HUGE payday for himself; and now is using all of his 'philanthropic accomplishment' as a shield against critics and investigators (much like the US presidential candidate did with a young child against an assassination attempt in the Stephen King novel and movie "The Dead Zone") who have been looking into possible illegal and morally questionable activities in which he took part to gain himself fame and fortune.

Sadly he didn't stick to the realm of entertainment, he used tactics far beyond entertainment to get himself a payday much larger than he would have obtained as merely a 'champion athlete'.

 

[BotanyBay]

My point is that most of the people on the forum have taken LA's past actions personally. He's called names, blamed for this or that and it's like people here have been personally affected.

Does it really matter if he took PEDS? It's pretty much proven that most cyclists of his generation were involved. Did he really defraud the public or the Postal Service?

How many people quit watching the races he was in? Not many. How much publicity did LA generate for US Postal? I'd imagine far more than they spent on sponsorship? So how did he defraud them?

As for LeMond, he could have kept quiet instead of personally attacking LA. I like LeMond, still repsect him as a cyclist, But his approach cost him more than it had too.

We all act like we were 'taken' by LA. Most of of ride and know how hard it is to do what the pros do and never really believed some of the performances. But it was fun to watch and is still fun to watch. The truth is...LA has done nothing but provide entertainment for millions and made his money, no difference from any other pro athlete or celebrity.

Ask yourself this question, sit on it for 15 minutes, answer it, and get back to us:

"Why am I asking such questions?"

 

[sniper]

As for LeMond, he could have kept quiet instead of personally attacking LA. I like LeMond, still repsect him as a cyclist, But his approach cost him more than it had too.

I rather tend to agree with Lemond when he states:
"for me, threatening others in order to keep everything quiet is much worse an offense than the actual usage of PEDs"

http://www.sportschau.de/sp/tour2010/aktuell/interviews/lemond_20100719.jsp

 

[veganrob]

His bike did it for you

Ouch. Cosmic paybacks are a *****.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

I rather tend to agree with Lemond when he states:
"for me, threatening others in order to keep everything quiet is much worse an offense than the actual usage of PEDs"

http://www.sportschau.de/sp/tour2010/aktuell/interviews/lemond_20100719.jsp

Can't argue with that.

There's cheating; and then there's mean, evil, and vindictive...