Ozzie Dopers. Surprise surpise

[42x16ss]

you actually could be right or........the oz is best at covering up


it all depends on whether you're an optimist or a pessimist and not at all on the actual statistics.

for ex, france for a marginally higher number of total tests (about 25%) catches more than 5 times as many dopers as oz, or the overall rate of positives in oz (about .5%) is actually one of the lowest in the word for any country and is 4 times lower than the overall wada stats historically (about 2%)

go figure, you're either:

i) the cleanest
ii) best at covering up,
iii) most incompetent at testing



yep, the stats are as always in the eyes of the beholder

I know what camp I'm in. Whenever anyone mentions how "squeaky clean" Australian athletes - especially cyclists - are I remind them of the lead up to the Athens Olympics where the Track squad fielded several accusations of doping (that never really reached the mainstream media here, surprise surprise) and denied any involvement.

Come event time - Australian domination in nearly all of the track disciplines....

Don't start me on Rugby League!

 

[usedtobefast]

lol- blackcat u troll. still ur a complete d!ck tho.

Blackcat is cool, don't know you.

 

[craig1985]

Blackcat, whilst we are talking about Australian athletes and doping in rugby league, I present the NRL's Brent Tate with his massive chin and jawline:

Obvious HGH abuse?

 

[Ferminal]

Blackcat, whilst we are talking about Australian athletes and doping in rugby league, I present the NRL's Brent Tate with his massive chin and jawline:

Obvious HGH abuse?

Shane Watson is better:

 

[slowspoke]

http://www.theage.com.au/sport/42-australians-fail-dope-tests-20111013-1lmdh.html

matter of time before their swimmers get caught o/s.

wont get caught at home, like Usain Bolt, they protected, like a platinum prophylactic.

Swimmers?? When this man was in charge?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ol...oach-charged-with-possession-of-steroids.html

But wait.. What's this? http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/s...ennadi-touretski/story-e6frfgko-1226022654135
Won't be to long then

 

[craig1985]

Shane Watson is better:

James Packer FTW.

 

[blackcat]

Blackcat, whilst we are talking about Australian athletes and doping in rugby league, I present the NRL's Brent Tate with his massive chin and jawline:

Obvious HGH abuse?

more symptoms, are actually the frontal bossing and simian browlines.

You need to benchmark it. ceteris paribus.

Cos some folks have naturally large heads, and deep set eyes, simian brows etc.

It is CHANGE, and morphing of bone structure and physiognomy. Dare say 80% AFL are on hgh, and 98% of NRL, and Union. Look at Cloke Collinwood and Lynch WCE for starters, but dont have to be the big guys. The Collingwood players have been giving suspicious readings of hgh in their urine for the last few years.

 

[blackcat]

Swimmers?? When this man was in charge?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ol...oach-charged-with-possession-of-steroids.html

But wait.. What's this? http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/s...ennadi-touretski/story-e6frfgko-1226022654135
Won't be to long then

I had an in depth personal message dialogue with Gary Hall jnr, thru his The Race Club website and fora. I had other info on the swimmers. Hall is a stand up guy. Only drug he touches is marijuana. DID.

 

[blackcat]

Slowspoke. Also, Michael Pope I think, the VicCentre coach, brought down Emeliano Rossalino, the Italian with an Aussie Grandmum to train in Melbourne. Look up his history.

Also, look at the guy who broke the jaw of the breastroker Cowley, d'Arcy. Father is a gp lol.

It is not one nor the other, or a few bad apples, and mostly clean. Why did Scott Millar get charged with pill press, roscoe, steroids too. He lived with a flatmate, not partner, female swimmer who works in media, she was a 200metre swimmer, from sydney, name relieves me. She said she had been "offered" stuff from within the fraternity. Ozzies have a deep history of doping that is not ever out in media.

 

[slowspoke]

I had an in depth personal message dialogue with Gary Hall jnr, thru his The Race Club website and fora. I had other info on the swimmers. Hall is a stand up guy. Only drug he touches is marijuana. DID.

I know GHJ has been very outspoken on drugs (and his dad) I love to know more! I competed to a pretty high level in swimming so got to see alot of these guys up close. Popov was a massive man. The German women too were HUGE! However, I saw a skinny Peter Van Dem Hoogenband as a 15 year old destroy the best in Europe in the 100m Freestyle. hard to think that was due to drugs. and I personally know a multiple Commonwealth Gold Medalist who defo never took drugs. Again, AMAZING as a youngster.
However, for those who aren't the freaks I have no doubts the drugs were rampant. I just think the skill factor in swimming is higher than it is in cycling!
Also, I competed for 4 years at international level where you could be drug testesd and never was. Though it did happen to my friends but your chances were practically nill.

 

[slowspoke]

Ha! Just remembered a meet that was sponsored by Red Bull (20 years ago now!) with free Red Bull! I reckon 90 percent of the athletes would have tested positive. I know I swam VERY well

 

[2008885]

All this stuff about HGH is very interesting, but I see little point in posting a picture of someone with a large chin without also posting an older picture of them without a large chin - or am I missing something?

 

[skippy]

Saw the article referring to Gennadi Touretski but wonder WHY you guys are " ANTI" ?
Thorpie obviously wants to train without " Aussie Media" clamouring for access and daily interviews !

Living in Swiss would provide a peaceful life for a while ! No doubt there will still be " Stringers " hanging out hoping for a lucky break !

 

[slowspoke]

Saw the article referring to Gennadi Touretski but wonder WHY you guys are " ANTI" ?
Thorpie obviously wants to train without " Aussie Media" clamouring for access and daily interviews !

Living in Swiss would provide a peaceful life for a while ! No doubt there will still be " Stringers " hanging out hoping for a lucky break !

I believe Thorpie trained in LA at the end of his career rather than OZ. Now, I'm not saying he doped, but it raised my eyebrows.
Thorpe story.
One of my friends raced Thorpe back in the day. My friend is 6"7 and nicknamed "Dolph" after his uncanny likeness to Dolph Lundgren. He is MASSIVE. Anyway, he is in the lane next to Thorpe in the 100m Freestyle. Gun goes off, they dive in and by the time he comes up, he has already lost 3 meters on Thorpe. You can't dope that sort of start. My friend then retires as "How can you beat that???"

 

[Benotti69]

I believe Thorpie trained in LA at the end of his career rather than OZ. Now, I'm not saying he doped, but it raised my eyebrows.
Thorpe story.
One of my friends raced Thorpe back in the day. My friend is 6"7 and nicknamed "Dolph" after his uncanny likeness to Dolph Lundgren. He is MASSIVE. Anyway, he is in the lane next to Thorpe in the 100m Freestyle. Gun goes off, they dive in and by the time he comes up, he has already lost 3 meters on Thorpe. You can't dope that sort of start. My friend then retires as "How can you beat that???"

why not?................

 

[gregrowlerson]

Thorpe was incredible at the age of 14-15. Seemed to be natural ability. So okay, he might have doped, but I think there's a chance he didn't.

Swimming seems to be an endurance sport where success is based more around natural ability than how much training you do and/or doping you do.

Though top swimmers do generally train extremely hard of course.

 

[Benotti69]

Thorpe was incredible at the age of 14-15. Seemed to be natural ability. So okay, he might have doped, but I think there's a chance he didn't.

Swimming seems to be an endurance sport where success is based more around natural ability than how much training you do and/or doping you do.

Though top swimmers do generally train extremely hard of course.

I think the example of Michelle Smith De Bruin will prove that doping is very effective in swimming as it is any 'athletic' sport, ie cycling, running, swimming etc

 

[slowspoke]

I think the example of Michelle Smith De Bruin will prove that doping is very effective in swimming as it is any 'athletic' sport, ie cycling, running, swimming etc

Yes and no. Steroids a la Michelle will make a difference to untalented/unskilled swimmers and particularly women. I can't however, think of another athletic sport where 14/15 year boys can compete and win at the Olympic level. Think Thorpe and Phelps. This shows that it's not all doping. Technique is paramount. Remember, the difference in drag between water and air is massive and amplifies the differences in technique.
That said, I'm sure doping is as rife in swimming as it's in other sports. And for exactly the same reasons.

 

[blackcat]

sent u a personal message slowspoke


re: technique.

Have a look at Dara Tores and Inge de Bruin and their success as mature athletes, when they showed only a fraction of the talent. Virtually all Olympic dias medalists, are on it.

sad thing is, the folks with natural ability are brought back to the crowd. I have no doubt Phelps is the most talented ever, and Hoogie more talented than Thorpe, cos Thorpe went in the softer distances, not the blue riband. But Phelps has come back to the crowd with the gear they are on now. I am sure Phelps was on gear as a youngster, but there is no denying his innate talent.

 

[Nick777]

sent u a personal message slowspoke

re: technique.

Have a look at Dara Tores and Inge de Bruin and their success as mature athletes, when they showed only a fraction of the talent. Virtually all Olympic dias medalists, are on it.

sad thing is, the folks with natural ability are brought back to the crowd. I have no doubt Phelps is the most talented ever, and Hoogie more talented than Thorpe, cos Thorpe went in the softer distances, not the blue riband. But Phelps has come back to the crowd with the gear they are on now. I am sure Phelps was on gear as a youngster, but there is no denying his innate talent.

Not doubting Tores & de Bruin, but Thorpe? I don't think so. Other Aussie swimmers? Well, I know of one multiple world & Olympic champ whose positives were supposedly covered up, according to one of our best ever long distance female swimmers.

I asked an Olympic medallist why he is so good. She went into detail & explained it all to me. Basically, he was born to swim. Pretty useless at any other sport. She had no doubts he was clean

I sat in with a swimming coach a few years back, and he was close to the Thorpe camp. He was a freak at 12-13, doing only 5-6 sessions per week.
You only need to look at his natural progression. The guy was world champion at 15. Some people are phenomenons - he is one of them. I would be astonished if he was dirty.

If you want to look at suspicious performances, Van den Hoogenband stands out like a sore thumb. Olympics in 2000 for a start. As does Misty Hymen.

 

[Nick777]

more symptoms, are actually the frontal bossing and simian browlines.

You need to benchmark it. ceteris paribus.

Cos some folks have naturally large heads, and deep set eyes, simian brows etc.

It is CHANGE, and morphing of bone structure and physiognomy. Dare say 80% AFL are on hgh, and 98% of NRL, and Union. Look at Cloke Collinwood and Lynch WCE for starters, but dont have to be the big guys. The Collingwood players have been giving suspicious readings of hgh in their urine for the last few years.

80% of AFL players on HGH? I don't think so. I have pretty good links with two AFL clubs, and that statement just doesn't ring true.

I've heard the Collingwood rumours. I wouldn't doubt that there are dodgy practices happening somewhere - just not systematic.

 

[slowspoke]

Not doubting Tores & de Bruin, but Thorpe? I don't think so. Other Aussie swimmers? Well, I know of one multiple world & Olympic champ whose positives were supposedly covered up, according to one of our best ever long distance female swimmers.

I asked an Olympic medallist why he is so good. She went into detail & explained it all to me. Basically, he was born to swim. Pretty useless at any other sport. She had no doubts he was clean

I sat in with a swimming coach a few years back, and he was close to the Thorpe camp. He was a freak at 12-13, doing only 5-6 sessions per week.
You only need to look at his natural progression. The guy was world champion at 15. Some people are phenomenons - he is one of them. I would be astonished if he was dirty.

If you want to look at suspicious performances, Van den Hoogenband stands out like a sore thumb. Olympics in 2000 for a start. As does Misty Hymen.

I saw Van den Hoogenband destroy a world class field in the 100m by 2 seconds as a spindly 15 year old. The was no doubt he was a phenomenon. If it wasn't for his car crash he would have achieved more. BTW as a spindly 15 year old myself who had just had his *** handed to him in the 100m, it was then I knew I wasn't going to make it.

 

[blackcat]

Not doubting Tores & de Bruin, but Thorpe? I don't think so. Other Aussie swimmers? Well, I know of one multiple world & Olympic champ whose positives were supposedly covered up, according to one of our best ever long distance female swimmers.

I asked an Olympic medallist why he is so good. She went into detail & explained it all to me. Basically, he was born to swim. Pretty useless at any other sport. She had no doubts he was clean

I sat in with a swimming coach a few years back, and he was close to the Thorpe camp. He was a freak at 12-13, doing only 5-6 sessions per week.
You only need to look at his natural progression. The guy was world champion at 15. Some people are phenomenons - he is one of them. I would be astonished if he was dirty.

If you want to look at suspicious performances, Van den Hoogenband stands out like a sore thumb. Olympics in 2000 for a start. As does Misty Hymen.

Nick, did you hear that story from Tammie Van Wisse about a '98 positive that Swimming Oz covered up. Not difficult to work out who it would have been, if someone knows Oz Swimming at the time. I got it from an Olympic swimmer who trained with her. But not an Ozzie.

spelling correct, Dana Torres.

 

[blackcat]

80% of AFL players on HGH? I don't think so. I have pretty good links with two AFL clubs, and that statement just doesn't ring true.

I've heard the Collingwood rumours. I wouldn't doubt that there are dodgy practices happening somewhere - just not systematic.

the question Nick is, when does "plausible deniability", and "sharing of sources" become systemic? I mean, there is a continuum, when they all have the same supplier, they all go to a "trainer's" house, who has the sharps bucket, with the hypodermics, and then they tell their mates at the other state clubs, who their provider is.

Is that systemic? I would posit, it is far enough along the continuum, for the club doctor not having to write a prescription or the club physio, to actually qualify to be a systemic dynamic.

Kouta's gym, in Brunswick, the Tony Doherty gym, he always has an international bodybuilder promotion. You can find footage of Fevola looking on as Ronnie Coleman works out.

Just need to look at the physiques of players, compared to 10, 15, 20 years back. They moved from the popeye muscles, the beach weights with bicep curls, and bench press muscles, like exploding Popeye muscles, to being really thick, but not bodybuilder type. Look at Mickie Conlan and Steven Tingay and Dermie Brereton, and compare them to the phsyque today, and I am of the opinion those above name, would have been on what they could get their hands on. The physique has really changed, and they carry more muscle, with more endurance, usually that has an inverse correlation.

 

[blackcat]

Yes and no. Steroids a la Michelle will make a difference to untalented/unskilled swimmers and particularly women. I can't however, think of another athletic sport where 14/15 year boys can compete and win at the Olympic level. Think Thorpe and Phelps. This shows that it's not all doping. Technique is paramount. Remember, the difference in drag between water and air is massive and amplifies the differences in technique.
That said, I'm sure doping is as rife in swimming as it's in other sports. And for exactly the same reasons.

why the FINA technical board gave into vested interests and sponsorships from ARENA and Speedo, I will never know, stupid, bringing in the suits, eviscerated a technical art of swimming.