Paris-Nice 2017, 5th-12th March

[Pricey_sky]

Let's leave it there please. Sexist posts whether joking or not won't be tolerated.

We shouldnt have to spend our Sunday afternoons trawling through posts that share prehistoric views.

Any further off topic posts will just be deleted.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

It is if there's one guy chasing a guy who dropped him. Izaguirre wasn't fresh. He was very tired as well.

So what then; the team with the strongest sprinter should just sit and do nothing with a breakaway 30 seconds up the road coming towards the end of the final stage of the race?

Is that really the kind of cycle racing you would want to watch?

You mean that riders sit back when there's nothing to lose and nothing to gain, to let the race play out?

Yes

Erm, the riders are the race - not just two guys. There is always something to gain in that kind of situation. Even if there was only 5% or whatever chance of catching Contador, it was possible to catch Soler who was cracking big time. And what about crashes or punctures?

I want to see riders giving everything for their goals until the end of the race; however achievable or not they are. I guess others just prefer the celebrities and personalities aspect of the sport than the racing itself though.

So you want teams riding for a useless 10th place?

I've already answered this. Personally, no I don't want to see teams riding for 10th place. But that's because I think it's a rubbish goal for a team to have. If, however, that is their goal, then sure I would want and expect them to go for it 100% and leave nothing on the road to try to achieve it.

And again, it's not comparable to today's stage anyway. Unfortunately, Contador didn't stretch out enough of a gap on the climb to remove the carrot of a stage win from danling in front of Colbrelli.

 

[kingjr]

Good race, and a good read, the last 30 pages. It was the last day of the race, there was no need to save energy, and there was no reason for Bahrain not to try and catch the leaders, knowing that Contador would have to do all the heavy lifting after being on the attack for 50k. Sure it was a long shot, but you have to try at least, an attitude that is usually lauded in this place. All it takes is one mistake, shifting or steering, cramps, whatever, with a strong sprint against a tired rider you can make up lots of ground in the last couple of hundred meters. Again, it was a small chance, but there is no worse feeling than rolling over the line thinking 'if we had tried we might have made it'.
I've seen this all before, the Tourgott-disciples in Germany were much the same, in fact the Contador fans in here seem downright tame compared to some of them. It's always going to happen when an athlete has a cult-like following and it will never change, so if the whinging and raging and general foolishness upsets you, just don't bother reading, cause it's never going to go away.

 

[Forever The Best]

Re: Re:

[quote="

Erm, the riders are the race - not just two guys. There is always something to gain in that kind of situation. Even if there was only 5% or whatever chance of catching Contador, it was possible to catch Soler who was cracking big time. And what about crashes or punctures?

I want to see riders giving everything for their goals until the end of the race; however achievable or not they are. I guess others just prefer the celebrities and personalities aspect of the sport than the racing itself though.

So you want teams riding for a useless 10th place?

I've already answered this. Personally, no I don't want to see teams riding for 10th place. But that's because I think it's a rubbish goal for a team to have. If, however, that is their goal, then sure I would want and expect them to go for it 100% and leave nothing on the road to try to achieve it.

And again, it's not comparable to today's stage anyway. Unfortunately, Contador didn't stretch out enough of a gap on the climb to remove the carrot of a stage win from danling in front of Colbrelli.

I don't want teams riding for 10th place or etc. to influence a result of a race.
Also Bahrain had no chance of closing the gap in my opinion. And Colbrelli and a few more sprinted madly for 4th which was also pretty pahetic.

 

[kingjr]

Re: Re:

[quote="

Erm, the riders are the race - not just two guys. There is always something to gain in that kind of situation. Even if there was only 5% or whatever chance of catching Contador, it was possible to catch Soler who was cracking big time. And what about crashes or punctures?

I want to see riders giving everything for their goals until the end of the race; however achievable or not they are. I guess others just prefer the celebrities and personalities aspect of the sport than the racing itself though.

So you want teams riding for a useless 10th place?

I've already answered this. Personally, no I don't want to see teams riding for 10th place. But that's because I think it's a rubbish goal for a team to have. If, however, that is their goal, then sure I would want and expect them to go for it 100% and leave nothing on the road to try to achieve it.

And again, it's not comparable to today's stage anyway. Unfortunately, Contador didn't stretch out enough of a gap on the climb to remove the carrot of a stage win from danling in front of Colbrelli.

I don't want teams riding for 10th place or etc. to influence a result of a race.
Also Bahrain had no chance of closing the gap in my opinion. And Colbrelli and a few more sprinted madly for 4th which was also pretty pahetic.

They are racehorses, it's what they do. It happens in other sports too.
It's like telling a dog not to chase after a tennis ball because it's not edible.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

[quote="

Erm, the riders are the race - not just two guys. There is always something to gain in that kind of situation. Even if there was only 5% or whatever chance of catching Contador, it was possible to catch Soler who was cracking big time. And what about crashes or punctures?

I want to see riders giving everything for their goals until the end of the race; however achievable or not they are. I guess others just prefer the celebrities and personalities aspect of the sport than the racing itself though.

So you want teams riding for a useless 10th place?

I've already answered this. Personally, no I don't want to see teams riding for 10th place. But that's because I think it's a rubbish goal for a team to have. If, however, that is their goal, then sure I would want and expect them to go for it 100% and leave nothing on the road to try to achieve it.

And again, it's not comparable to today's stage anyway. Unfortunately, Contador didn't stretch out enough of a gap on the climb to remove the carrot of a stage win from danling in front of Colbrelli.

I don't want teams riding for 10th place or etc. to influence a result of a race.
Also Bahrain had no chance of closing the gap in my opinion. And Colbrelli and a few more sprinted madly for 4th which was also pretty pahetic.

I don't really understand what you mean about influencing the result of the race? These guys are part of the race, one of the beauties of cycling is that there are always so many sub plots and different aims within the same event - particularly in stage races.

GC riders or guys looking to win the stage surely should be taking this into account. Contador would have known that there was a good chance someone would help Henao to chase if there was a smallish gap on the descent - so the onus was on him really to create enough of an advantage for that not to be an issue. Something that he couldn't quite do. Likewise, de la Cruz and Matthews helped Contador. Without all this interplay, you would basically be turning it into a pursuit between two riders on the final stage; which would be pretty dull.

Also, I can't agree about sprinting for 4th. What else should they do; just roll in and finish 10th?

 

[DNP-Old]

I'm cannot believe people are actually making the case that Henao got it gifted or whatever. If you look at it big picture, it did not come down to Bahrein riding or not. The race was much more than that and the echelon stage, time trial, Fayence, Couillole all had a much bigger impact and Contador should have done better in at least one of those. He only has himself to blame.

 

[Forever The Best]

Re: Re:

[quote="

Erm, the riders are the race - not just two guys. There is always something to gain in that kind of situation. Even if there was only 5% or whatever chance of catching Contador, it was possible to catch Soler who was cracking big time. And what about crashes or punctures?

I want to see riders giving everything for their goals until the end of the race; however achievable or not they are. I guess others just prefer the celebrities and personalities aspect of the sport than the racing itself though.

So you want teams riding for a useless 10th place?

I've already answered this. Personally, no I don't want to see teams riding for 10th place. But that's because I think it's a rubbish goal for a team to have. If, however, that is their goal, then sure I would want and expect them to go for it 100% and leave nothing on the road to try to achieve it.

And again, it's not comparable to today's stage anyway. Unfortunately, Contador didn't stretch out enough of a gap on the climb to remove the carrot of a stage win from danling in front of Colbrelli.

I don't want teams riding for 10th place or etc. to influence a result of a race.
Also Bahrain had no chance of closing the gap in my opinion. And Colbrelli and a few more sprinted madly for 4th which was also pretty pahetic.

I don't really understand what you mean about influencing the result of the race? These guys are part of the race, one of the beauties of cycling is that there are always so many sub plots and different aims within the same event - particularly in stage races.

GC riders or guys looking to win the stage surely should be taking this into account. Contador would have known that there was a good chance someone would help Henao to chase if there was a smallish gap on the descent - so the onus was on him really to create enough of an advantage for that not to be an issue. Something that he couldn't quite do. Likewise, de la Cruz and Matthews helped Contador. Without all this interplay, you would basically be turning it into a pursuit between two riders on the final stage; which would be pretty dull.

Also, I can't agree about sprinting for 4th. What else should they do; just roll in and finish 10th?

De La Cruz and Matthews helped because Contador would have gifted the stage if the gap would have been enough. And De La Cruz still won the stage which made him working worth it. And they sprinted for 4th like it was end of the world
So we disagree there.

 

[Brullnux]

You get points for coming 4th. And money. I don't see why people here believe that teams, if a win is unlikely (but still possible) should stop riding just because Contador is up ahead. I understand why it is frustrating, but it's what they should do, if you look at it from their perspective. Put yourselves in their shoes.

 

[Red Rick]

There wasn't even a better place up for grabs, they were always sprinting for 4th. But whatever.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Re: Re:

So the position of the Contador fans is that Soler and De La Cruz are morally obliged to work with Contador, but everyone in the second group is morally obliged to make Henao work alone?

I don't think anyone is saying that. Soler and De La Cruz certainly didn't need to work once it was clear they were going to stay away.

And yet someone was calling him a wheelsucker, preceded by several asterisks (at least the way it reached our screens.

And despite the fact that he had to catch up 30m in the last 2km.

 

[staubsauger]

If Quick Step helps Sky with the chase it never comes down to just 2 seconds since Contador won't win that much time. So to state Henao only won because of others help is wrong if you look how the whole tactical situation developed instantly!

 

[dacooley]

Re: Re:

People are just disappointed Henao was gifted the win and would have preferred Contador to take it. I think most would agree that Contador deserved it more. But yeah, that's the way it goes I guess -_-

Yes, he was gifted. Did no work himself at all.

Well seems like the seconds Henao could take in Fayence were very valuable as it stands.

 

[Brullnux]

Re:

There wasn't even a better place up for grabs, they were always sprinting for 4th. But whatever.

Come on. It's always worth a shot, like kingjr said. I know you are annoyed but they have no duty to help out Contador.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Re: Re:

People are just disappointed Henao was gifted the win and would have preferred Contador to take it. I think most would agree that Contador deserved it more. But yeah, that's the way it goes I guess -_-

Henao wasn't gifted anything, it's not like he sat up and did nothing. Also he positioned himself well in stage 1 and didn't lose time while Contador lost time. Henao deserved the win just as much as Contador

He got dropped by Contador two days in a row and wouldn't have won without the assistance of others. He won fair and square obviously, but I still think Contador deserved it more

You are aware that this is a team sport? You are meant to have the assistance of others.

Talking of which, big contribution to Henao's successful retention of yellow was down to cousin Sebastian, who put in an admirable stint considering he was, 36 hours before the start, second reserve for this race. Poels dropped out to be replaced by Elissonde, who very quickly dropped out himself, meaning that Seb only got the call on Saturday morning.

 

[Anderis]

I'm losing my faith in humanity when I'm reading a thread like this.

 

[Escarabajo]

This is just getting ridiculous. How many stage races has Contador lost by less than 10 seconds in the last few years? And especially the two PN defeats hurt because he lost both races not because he was weaker than his rival but because his rival was in a stronger group on the final descent. And both times his rival was a sky rider which makes the pain even worse.
And btw, he already has 6 2nd places this season. Even Sagan would be impressed by that.

Hey if that is the case, Henao had a fair share of second places as well with no wins. As opposed to Contador.

Great that he is great Champion and he animates the races but that's life.

 

[Escarabajo]

Re:

I'm cannot believe people are actually making the case that Henao got it gifted or whatever. If you look at it big picture, it did not come down to Bahrein riding or not. The race was much more than that and the echelon stage, time trial, Fayence, Couillole all had a much bigger impact and Contador should have done better in at least one of those. He only has himself to blame.

Not only that. I just watched the stage and there were a lot more variables that went into the final standings. There were attacks back and forth in the Henao group. He didn't have any help. De la Cruz pulled Soler and helped Contador a bit. Henao got some help in the descent however Henao did most of the pulling in the ascent and in the descent. So he deserves most of the credit. At the end Contador had no chance of winning the stage since he was going full gas.

Every team ride their own race. Whichever that is. This is professional racing. One minute Bahrain team is helping Contador and next minute they are not. How do you explain that? It is professional racing.

 

[Gigs_98]

This is just getting ridiculous. How many stage races has Contador lost by less than 10 seconds in the last few years? And especially the two PN defeats hurt because he lost both races not because he was weaker than his rival but because his rival was in a stronger group on the final descent. And both times his rival was a sky rider which makes the pain even worse.
And btw, he already has 6 2nd places this season. Even Sagan would be impressed by that.

Hey if that is the case, Henao had a fair share of second places as well with no wins. As opposed to Contador.

Great that he is great Champion and he animates the races but that's life.

I agree, Henao deserves this win just as much as Contador would. Still it was hard to not get angry as a Contador fan today.

 

[frisenfruitig]

Re: Re:

People are just disappointed Henao was gifted the win and would have preferred Contador to take it. I think most would agree that Contador deserved it more. But yeah, that's the way it goes I guess -_-

Henao wasn't gifted anything, it's not like he sat up and did nothing. Also he positioned himself well in stage 1 and didn't lose time while Contador lost time. Henao deserved the win just as much as Contador

He got dropped by Contador two days in a row and wouldn't have won without the assistance of others. He won fair and square obviously, but I still think Contador deserved it more

You are aware that this is a team sport? You are meant to have the assistance of others.

Talking of which, big contribution to Henao's successful retention of yellow was down to cousin Sebastian, who put in an admirable stint considering he was, 36 hours before the start, second reserve for this race. Poels dropped out to be replaced by Elissonde, who very quickly dropped out himself, meaning that Seb only got the call on Saturday morning.

Contador was obviously the better man and Henao wouldn't have won without assistance of other riders. I think that is a pretty reasonable statement wouldn't you agree?

 

[Escarabajo]

Re: Re:

People are just disappointed Henao was gifted the win and would have preferred Contador to take it. I think most would agree that Contador deserved it more. But yeah, that's the way it goes I guess -_-

Henao wasn't gifted anything, it's not like he sat up and did nothing. Also he positioned himself well in stage 1 and didn't lose time while Contador lost time. Henao deserved the win just as much as Contador

He got dropped by Contador two days in a row and wouldn't have won without the assistance of others. He won fair and square obviously, but I still think Contador deserved it more

You are aware that this is a team sport? You are meant to have the assistance of others.

Talking of which, big contribution to Henao's successful retention of yellow was down to cousin Sebastian, who put in an admirable stint considering he was, 36 hours before the start, second reserve for this race. Poels dropped out to be replaced by Elissonde, who very quickly dropped out himself, meaning that Seb only got the call on Saturday morning.

Contador was obviously the better man and Henao wouldn't have won without assistance of other riders. I think that is a pretty reasonable statement wouldn't you agree?

No. Henao and other teams dropped Contador in the first stages. He looked rather weak for the first stages. If it wasn't for his team he would have been in similar situation as Porte. Then Henao defended in the last two stages. Henao played a part in what is called professional racing where every team ride for their own interests. Henao is usually a strong rider in the flat stages. I saw him almost always well positioned and at the front. That takes energy. Cannot erase that from the race.

Sorry, I know the question wasn't for me but it is posted in a public forum for anybody to answer.

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

And the winner is

I wonder how Contador will lose this year lol.

That hurts Pisti, that hurts

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

And the winner is

I wonder how Contador will lose this year lol.

That hurts Pisti, that hurts

Hmm, you can point to many things, but most importantly

a) missing the echelons on stage 1
b) being good, but not great on the biggest stage he should have won the race on
c) that Trek wasn't able to put a man up in the break and that Alberto got the legs on stage 8 he should have gotten on stage 7. Too bad.

 

[DFA123]

Quite a bit of disrespect shown to Henao here. he had his best domestique pulling out on the eve of the race. He thrived in echelons, danced away on a murito, put in an excellent TT, limited his losses well on the high mountain stage and heroically clawed back a losing position on the final stage, pulling along a mini peloton for most of the last 30km. And, after all that, he managed to beat two of probably the top 5 week long stage racers in the world to take easily the biggest win of his career.

Yet that is all put to one side because Izagirre took a couple of pulls on the final descent. Henao deserves way more credit. A fully deserving winner.

 

[samhocking]

Some days you are the hammer, some the nail and on the really unlucky days you are the wood. Welcome to cycling - You can't take the lemon out of a lemon hoping to get orange.