Paris - Nice 2021, March 7 - March 14

[Libertine Seguros]

^^On one level I agree with you -- and feel sort of bad for Mader -- but why gift a stage to a rider who's not on your team? And being in a break, that's always a risk of being caught at the end by stronger riders. We've seen it happen way more often than not.

I actually like that Roglic likes to win.

It's useful to have allies, you never know when you might need them. Gifting Tiralongo that win at Macugnaga was very useful for Contador in the long run, for example. Valverde practically stopped to honour his deal with Sylwester Szmyd on Ventoux, because the deal was that if they had enough time for Valverde to get the jersey he'd give Szmyd the stage - and in the end his lead wasn't that big and it could have cost him on the Saint-François-Longchamp stage, but he would rather risk that than become known within the péloton as somebody who won't honour a deal. And I can't tell you anything about most of Jalabert's stage wins at the '95 Vuelta, but I can tell you all about the Bert Dietz stage.

 

[Ricco']

He said himself, when your team works for you all day you have to try to reward them.

The team was working for a stage win or for a GC win?

 

[Gregor_Slovenia]

Hehe, as I said yesterday, probably 50th jubilee win for Primož today. And what a duschbag is that Adam Blythe haha, uuu-Primož is not looking really Primus today. He is having problems. He is going with big gear, not good. Dumbass. There is nothing better on this world than mountain top finish sprint from Primož.

 

[Carols]

The team was working for a stage win or for a GC win?

Both

 

[saganftw]

im sure oomen, kruiswijk and bennett would be thrilled roglic gifted stage so he can be a hero on twitter

 

[Wvv]

Heartbreaking for Mäder, he would've deserved it. But Roglic doesn't need to justify himself for wanting to win.

 

[roundabout]

I get no gifts, the team worked and so on, but that was an easy chance to gain favor with Bahrain. Who knows if their help could be useful when there would bigger things at play than a Paris-Nice stage win.

 

[kingjr]

It happens quite frequently in stage races. And there are a number of reasons to do so. And if you come across as a ***, it doesn't necessarily reflect well on your sponsor.

There are also reasons not to, such as that it's a massive anticlimax for (some of) the viewers.

 

[movingtarget]

Well that was predictable. Once the gap got down to 30 seconds there was only going to be one outcome. Great ride by Mader all the same.

 

[Volderke]

No gifts. Team worked hard, they deserve the win if possible. Period.

True.
But if anyone made a PR mistake, it's maybe more the team (director) rather than Roglic:
If your whole team rides tempo up the Colmiane, ofcourse, being Roglic, you feel under some pressure to win (so imho he's not to 'blame' (if there is someone to blame for winning!).

The question is why the team drove it so hard? The obivous first reason is to win the stage with Roglic, but I feel Lotto-Jumbo isn't really the most 'emotionally' intelligent team in terms of how the team directors plan their tactics with regards to other teams and their ambitions.
A secondary goal could be to test the mountain train for the Tour, but other than that, they really should make some friends by gifting some stage wins. If not, they won't have much sympathy left when their team is in difficulty defending a leader's jersey.

 

[Danskebjerge]

There is nothing new: If the strongest team always chases down the breakaways, they get unpopular. It's always been like that. The good thing about it - potentially - is that the other teams change their way of approaching the races. That could produce better and more exciting racing.

 

[Vroome.exe]

It happens quite frequently in stage races. And there are a number of reasons to do so. And if you come across as a ***, it doesn't necessarily reflect well on your sponsor.

Not a fan of Roglic, but if his team works for him the entire stage and he gifts the win, I'd be disappointed. That was an exciting finish, I'm glad he won.

 

[Gregor_Slovenia]

It happens quite frequently in stage races. And there are a number of reasons to do so. And if you come across as a ***, it doesn't necessarily reflect well on your sponsor.

Who cares, in the end, in November of 2021, they will just look how many wins there are. And if there is one more in WT, why not. Is great

 

[Simurgh]

My dislike of Roglic is nearing the dislike I had for peak Froome. Yeah its a sport, no gifts or mercy is to be expected, I get it. But there is something called good taste. It seems clear to me that he could have caught Mäder whenever he liked, but just toyed with everyone else. In two weeks he will have forgotten all about this minor victory, whereas Mäder would most likely treasure it for the rest of his life.

Emotions aside: While there is an argument that last year's Tour supposedly taught Roglic a lesson, I fail to see that lesson applied. He is riding the exact same way that lost him the Tour last year - temporiding by super-domestiques (which unlike SKY doesn't shed the peloton, but merely discourage attacking) and attacking 1½ km from the finish to gain 10-20 seconds. Lucky for him, he has no equal at this race. But against more serious competition he is only a midrange (not even long-range is necessary) attack by another S-tier rider from losing another Tour.

 

[Red Rick]

I honestly doubt a PN stage win gets huge favors in return.

 

[tobydawq]

Spoiler: Only for people who already watched Vuelta 2019 and Tour 2020

Only for Pogacar.

For r

It's useful to have allies, you never know when you might need them. Gifting Tiralongo that win at Macugnaga was very useful for Contador in the long run, for example. Valverde practically stopped to honour his deal with Sylwester Szmyd on Ventoux, because the deal was that if they had enough time for Valverde to get the jersey he'd give Szmyd the stage - and in the end his lead wasn't that big and it could have cost him on the Saint-François-Longchamp stage, but he would rather risk that than become known within the péloton as somebody who won't honour a deal. And I can't tell you anything about most of Jalabert's stage wins at the '95 Vuelta, but I can tell you all about the Bert Dietz stage.

Contador and Tiralongo were good friends. And I don't think anybody would have thought less of Valverde if he didn't have time for Szmyd's vomiting.

 

[will-10]

Some of the vitriol on this thread is out of order... chill out guys. It's a bike race.

 

[Kangaridoo]

My dislike of Roglic is nearing the dislike I had for peak Froome. Yeah its a sport, no gifts or mercy is to be expected, I get it. But there is something called good taste. It seems clear to me that he could have caught Mäder whenever he liked, but just toyed with everyone else. In two weeks he will have forgotten all about this minor victory, whereas Mäder would most likely treasure it for the rest of his life.

Emotions aside: While there is an argument that last year's Tour supposedly taught Roglic a lesson, I fail to see that lesson applied. He is riding the exact same way that lost him the Tour last year - temporiding by super-domestiques (which unlike SKY doesn't shed the peloton, but merely discourage attacking) and attacking 1½ km from the finish to gain 10-20 seconds. Lucky for him, he has no equal at this race. But against more serious competition he is only a midrange (not even long-range is necessary) attack by another S-tier rider from losing another Tour.

But if this becomes true again it will just make it much more enjoyable to see Roglic lose out again. I think it's good for cycling fans to have antagonists to some extent. Pogacar's win last year was so satisfying exactly because of how it happened.

 

[saganftw]

but then again, you gift them a stage at mont ventoux and next thing you know they say they were better that day

 

[titan31]

If that's a team like Cofidis and Guillaume Martin does that, I don't mind. They don't win races anyway so any win is great for them.

When it's Roglic and Jumbo, it's a bit worse imo as they clean up and a stage win in Paris Nice is nothing to them at the end of the day. I'd rather make some friends who can help me in the Tour or other big races. We all know instances where guys repaid gifts from other teams in a big way (Tiralongo example mentioned already).

 

[Gregor_Slovenia]

This is sport, go for it if you can. Go back to kindergarten if you want gifts from your compatriots.

 

[Volderke]

Some of the vitriol on this thread is out of order... chill out guys. It's a bike race.

Most cycling fans expect cycling to be a perfect world, where the whole rider's ecosystem is in balance and nobody's harmed and everybody is winning, like in the Jehovah witness folders with little children huggin huge lions.

 

[Carols]

My dislike of Roglic is nearing the dislike I had for peak Froome. Yeah its a sport, no gifts or mercy is to be expected, I get it. But there is something called good taste. It seems clear to me that he could have caught Mäder whenever he liked, but just toyed with everyone else. In two weeks he will have forgotten all about this minor victory, whereas Mäder would most likely treasure it for the rest of his life.

Emotions aside: While there is an argument that last year's Tour supposedly taught Roglic a lesson, I fail to see that lesson applied. He is riding the exact same way that lost him the Tour last year - temporiding by super-domestiques (which unlike SKY doesn't shed the peloton, but merely discourage attacking) and attacking 1½ km from the finish to gain 10-20 seconds. Lucky for him, he has no equal at this race. But against more serious competition he is only a midrange (not even long-range is necessary) attack by another S-tier rider from losing another Tour.

Haters gotta hate. Dominance turns some people off and Thrills others.

 

[jaylew]

I just wish Roglic would have been in Tirreno with the rest of the big boys. It likely would have made both races even better.

 

[Gregor_Slovenia]

If that's a team like Cofidis and Guillaume Martin does that, I don't mind. They don't win races anyway so any win is great for them.

When it's Roglic and Jumbo, it's a bit worse imo as they clean up and a stage win in Paris Nice is nothing to them at the end of the day. I'd rather make some friends who can help me in the Tour or other big races. We all know instances where guys repaid gifts from other teams in a big way (Tiralongo example mentioned already).

Help you, wtf? Haven't you ever watch cycling race? You win a race if you have legs for it (also Tour), and not if you have blabla team and so on.