Paris-Nice 2024, March 3-10

[iBanesto]

Somehow, he found a way to finish top 10.

Unfortunately, it was 11th for Almeida in the GC.

GC was missing Kelderman for some reason.

 

[tobydawq]

Unfortunately, it was 11th for Almeida in the GC.

GC was missing Kelderman for some reason.

Yeah, I know. Kelderman crashed in the final 3 kilometres so got the same time as the group he was with. But that was only adjusted later.

 

[Taxus4a]

Remco will blow up if he starts doing the change of pace

People need to stop listening to Horner. Horner is a flyweight climber who made his selections by changing the pace. Remco won the Vuelta by setting a very hard and steady pace and blowing everyone off his wheel. He did that to everyone today except for the overall winner. Only one could follow. Even Vlasov ended up blowing up

Yes. He is lucky he IS so good and even without team he can drop everybody just with an strong rythm...but if that doesnt work, becouse someone is similar to you, you cant go pulling with him at your wheel. If he played for second, great...but a rider as Remco, excep he IS fighteen with Pogacar, Vingegard...the stage is too hard and has clear second is the máximum he cant reach..but even in that situation, must play to win...
He is an exceptional rider who won San Sebastián with dominance at 19 years old. Does he think that draft IS not a clear help in cycling at about 20 km/h?. Someone must teach him that... He was the strongest of the race...Jorgensson very close, but he was the strongest , and he didnt play well hid cards to win. He had to Risk the podium, yes. But was the only way to win without an strong teammate

I cant ask more to Roglic, he had no legs for more...It is good as well his team mates play their cards

 

[Taxus4a]

Let's game this out a little more. And I agree with you perfectly... almost.

Remco forces the selection and sits on Jorg's wheel perfectly as did Vlasov.

A fresher Remco drops a worked Jorgensen on that final climb in any other situation for the necessary 30 second AND wins the stage. No second place anything. Wins the stage and the race.

But It is very difficult to drop someone Who IS at your wheel the previous 20 km, even if you have a fresh and powerfull attack. Put at his wheel , if he stop, wait the rest, someone will attack or put rythm for sure..and a poeerfull attack on the last climb, or even at Eze, can give you the GC...Remco alone always put time on the rest, exceot some very exceptional riders of these generation. He IS very good , but he has some weakness, in technic and in tacthic...

 

[shadowrider]

Literally no one in cycling is going to say “oh my god why is remco losing his second place podium???”

Because everyone is now talking about how does he expect to win the tour if he can’t beat the 6th man on vismas depth chart

The 6th man on Visma's chart ? Hilarious ! So, explain ? Jorgenson was already the strongest Vismarider in "het Nieuwsblad". On short hills and cobbles. In P-N again, Jorgeson proved to be an excellent allrounder and climber. As strong as Evenepoel and stronger than McNulty, Skjelmose, the nr. 3 climber in the world Roglic, Vlasov etc.
If Jorgenson is the nr. 6 in the Visma-team, who are the numbers 2, 3, 4 and 5 ? Kuss ? Beaten by Evenepoel in the Algarve ? Uijtdebroeks, only 7th in the Tirreno ? Van Aert (maybe the best allrounder, or is it Jorgenson) ? Laporte ?

 

[ColonelKidneyBeans]

Yes. He is lucky he IS so good and even without team he can drop everybody just with an strong rythm...but if that doesnt work, becouse someone is similar to you, you cant go pulling with him at your wheel. If he played for second, great...but a rider as Remco, excep he IS fighteen with Pogacar, Vingegard...the stage is too hard and has clear second is the máximum he cant reach..but even in that situation, must play to win...
He is an exceptional rider who won San Sebastián with dominance at 19 years old. Does he think that draft IS not a clear help in cycling at about 20 km/h?. Someone must teach him that... He was the strongest of the race...Jorgensson very close, but he was the strongest , and he didnt play well hid cards to win. He had to Risk the podium, yes. But was the only way to win without an strong teammate

I cant ask more to Roglic, he had no legs for more...It is good as well his team mates play their cards

The problem for Evenepoel is that his team does not have the luxury to jeopardise a good result for a potential win right now, he's more or less the only rider of theirs that performs in the big races since 2022.

 

[scribers]

Give me a break. Jorgensen winning a stage race? Out-climbing world class climbers? Lol

Jorg should have spent that 30km +/- alone. Remco should have raced to win or lose it all. The race was remcos to dictate.

There was a pathway to win the stage and the race but remco couldn’t find it.

 

[scribers]

The 6th man on Visma's chart ? Hilarious ! So, explain ? Jorgenson was already the strongest Vismarider in "het Nieuwsblad". On short hills and cobbles. In P-N again, Jorgeson proved to be an excellent allrounder and climber. As strong as Evenepoel and stronger than McNulty, Skjelmose, the nr. 3 climber in the world Roglic, Vlasov etc.
If Jorgenson is the nr. 6 in the Visma-team, who are the numbers 2, 3, 4 and 5 ? Kuss ? Beaten by Evenepoel in the Algarve ? Uijtdebroeks, only 7th in the Tirreno ? Van Aert (maybe the best allrounder, or is it Jorgenson) ? Laporte ?

You remember what happened to Jorgensen at omloop hn when he spent too much time in the front of the race alone with a climb left to the finish?

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Yeah, I know. Kelderman crashed in the final 3 kilometres so got the same time as the group he was with. But that was only adjusted later.

Broke his collarbone. Guy breaks when you poke him.

 

[tobydawq]

Broke his collarbone. Guy breaks when you poke him.

Damn. I don't even have a particularly beefy index finger.

Tough luck for him. I read that this was maybe the only race where he would ride for a personal result.

 

[shadowrider]

You remember what happened to Jorgensen at omloop hn when he spent too much time in the front of the race alone with a climb left to the finish?

Of course. But he tried. He was one of the strongest that day, together with Skjuins. And better than his teammates Van Aert and the later winner Tratnik. So, what is your point ? In my eyes, Jorgenson is still the second or third (together with Van Aert) in Visma's quality ranking. And the second allround and in climbing in stageraces after Vingegaard.

 

[houtdffan]

Yes. He is lucky he IS so good and even without team he can drop everybody just with an strong rythm...but if that doesnt work, becouse someone is similar to you, you cant go pulling with him at your wheel. If he played for second, great...but a rider as Remco, excep he IS fighteen with Pogacar, Vingegard...the stage is too hard and has clear second is the máximum he cant reach..but even in that situation, must play to win...
He is an exceptional rider who won San Sebastián with dominance at 19 years old. Does he think that draft IS not a clear help in cycling at about 20 km/h?. Someone must teach him that... He was the strongest of the race...Jorgensson very close, but he was the strongest , and he didnt play well hid cards to win. He had to Risk the podium, yes. But was the only way to win without an strong teammate

I cant ask more to Roglic, he had no legs for more...It is good as well his team mates play their cards

It's because Remco climbs like Ullrich and Indurain. Changes of pace are what kills him (even Contador to an extent had that issue, his best times were when he did his own pace up the climbs, even in the 2013 TDF he set the fastest times up the MTT, but blew up when he responded to Froome's pace changes)

One thing that Remco's climbing tactic does is prevent others from attacking. Even Vingegaard couldn't attack in last year's Vuelta in the first half when he wanted to due to Remco's pace (especially stage 8). The knucklehead Horner said Remco was wrong for dictating the pace on that climb... but if you set a pace that even Vingegaard cannot attack, you must be doing something right

 

[scribers]

Van Aert was by far the strongest visma rider at omloop hn. This a serious conversation or what???

 

[Volderke]

In my eyes,

Jorgenson is still the second or third (together with Van Aert) in Visma's quality ranking.

And the second allround and in climbing in stageraces after Vingegaard.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

People shouldn't take Zoef-Lightning's posts too seriously.

 

[tobydawq]

People shouldn't take Zoef-Lightning's posts too seriously.

Is that guy back?

 

[proffate]

Of course. But he tried. He was one of the strongest that day, together with Skjuins. And better than his teammates Van Aert and the later winner Tratnik. So, what is your point ? In my eyes, Jorgenson is still the second or third (together with Van Aert) in Visma's quality ranking. And the second allround and in climbing in stageraces after Vingegaard.

I like where your head is at, but whoa nelly... WVA turned around and won the next day after a dominant 3 man break.

Kuss just won a grand tour bc of tactics which is better than PN bc of tactics.

Hard to make a direct comparison to a sprinter, but Kooij has to be somewhere up there in value for Visma.

And I'm sure Visma has 4 other tour winners waiting in the wings, just as soon as they find the right psychotherapist.

 

[Oldermanish]

If this PN has shown us one thing it's that the Jumbo Visma effect is real. Jorgenson is a talented rider but I didn't expect this from him (yet). Instant improvement. And in Roglic' case, the opposite seems true as well

The American that finished 3 rd certainly could have expected it. They've been racing against each other since their Junior days. Both have had great results....you just can't see them from where you live apparently.

 

[frisenfruitig]

The American that finished 3 rd certainly could have expected it. They've been racing against each other since their Junior days. Both have had great results....you just can't see them from where you live apparently.

Replying twice to the same comment? What are you saying, you don't see a significant improvement compared to last year?

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Replying twice to the same comment? What are you saying, you don't see a significant improvement compared to last year?

I think it's too early to say that for sure. Last year he was 2nd in Romandie where he held it together on a climb at 2000m. Now he's a year older, hasn't had a major injury since, and is riding for the/one of the strongest teams around. I don't think he's doing anything that is completely ridiculous. He also didn't win PN by being the outright strongest on every GC stage, Roglič was subpar, and Remco is not always unbeatable in a stage race without an ITT, plus his tactics can sometimes be questionable. The weather also took its toll on the riders yesterday, and Jorgenson was quite familiar with the course.

Of course, if he goes on to dominate every single race he rides this season, then it'll be a different case.

 

[Taxus4a]

It's because Remco climbs like Ullrich and Indurain. Changes of pace are what kills him (even Contador to an extent had that issue, his best times were when he did his own pace up the climbs, even in the 2013 TDF he set the fastest times up the MTT, but blew up when he responded to Froome's pace changes)

One thing that Remco's climbing tactic does is prevent others from attacking. Even Vingegaard couldn't attack in last year's Vuelta in the first half when he wanted to due to Remco's pace (especially stage 8). The knucklehead Horner said Remco was wrong for dictating the pace on that climb... but if you set a pace that even Vingegaard cannot attack, you must be doing something right

Maybe, but the change of rythm he did at La Redoute was inpressive...I want to think that is the problem, becouse other way id not clever for him...but in that case he need more good helpers, not just Landa. And Landa in a good day IS a better climber than Remco and of course he will want in that case to be leader.

 

[roundabout]

I think it's too early to say that for sure. Last year he was 2nd in Romandie where he held it together on a climb at 2000m. Now he's a year older, hasn't had a major injury since, and is riding for the/one of the strongest teams around. I don't think he's doing anything that is completely ridiculous. He also didn't win PN by being the outright strongest on every GC stage, Roglič was subpar, and Remco is not always unbeatable in a stage race without an ITT, plus his tactics can sometimes be questionable. The weather also took its toll on the riders yesterday, and Jorgenson was quite familiar with the course.

Of course, if he goes on to dominate every single race he rides this season, then it'll be a different case.

A guy who was ~30 in the World rankings last year apparently has to dominate every single race he rides to show significant improvement?

 

[scribers]

To warrant beating world class gc stage racers, yes. That would be nice to see. At least some other 1 week race. Or top ten a GT would be great to see too.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

A guy who was ~30 in the World rankings last year apparently has to dominate every single race he rides to show significant improvement?

No, of course not, but I still think it's a bit premature to judge his progression after one stage race where most things seemed to click. Martinez also looked great in Algarve for instance, and now he might be back to his usual inconsistent self. My point wasn't that Jorgenson hadn't improved, just that his transformation wasn't yet as remarkable as some made it out to be. His WT ranking last year also suffered from the fact that he crashed in Dauphiné and had to leave the Tour early due to a thigh injury.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Is that guy back?

If it's not him, then it's someone who does an uncanny impersonation.