Paris-Roubaix 2023, one day monument, April 9 (men's)

[Escarabajo]

I just saw the race. It was good but not the best. The race was decided with few riders with 100 K to go. Strange indeed. But the ectasis of the definition of the race between WVA and MVDP is what made the race. I am not a technical Guru in bikes but Jumbo had too many punctures for my liking. Maybe coincidence because it is PR or maybe not. Another thing is I don't know what was WVA thinking at the end expecting rotation from the other riders. LOL. That was kind of silly. He was lucky that MP was helping him. Kung and Ganna were done, the other one was a teammate. He just needed to go deep like a TT mode. Having said that, He was never going to reach Mathieu because he was too strong.

 

[ice&fire]

I expect Evenepoel to be in better form that Pogacar

I thought he wouldn't race until the Giro. Remco doing Liege must have come to Lefevere's mind while having lunch.

 

[Red Rick]

I thought he wouldn't race until the Giro. Remco doing Liege must have come to Lefevere's mind while having lunch.

Evenepoel was always listed for Liege. Roglic is the one not racing between now and Giro

 

[Tonton]

I expect Evenepoel to be in better form that Pogacar

We'll see...Pog looks like Superman these days.

For the "luck debate", races circumstance are that: luck. Individually and collectively, everything that could go wrong went wrong for JV. Wout's drama au carrefour de l'arbre will add to the myth of this haunted place.

This PR didn't disappoint and we have a great winner today. He rode the perfect race, he was so strong today. Bravo Matthieu!

 

[Andy262]

Just watched on catch up. Would have been delighted if Big John had got off his bike and lamped Phillipsen.

 

[Volderke]

I agree. If Wout was that strong. He would have eaten into MVDP’s lead. He’s the better timetrialer after all. Wout rode a great race up till that point. But it was up to him to chase down MVDP if he wanted to win. He didn’t because he couldn’t or else he had a brain fart.

Please take into account that Wva was riding on a flat for the last 500 meters of Carrefour. People who never raced underestimate your legs get destroyed if you have a flat. Even if you are the best rider, chances are significant you won’t recover from the lactic acid build-up, especially near the end of a race when everyone goes flat out.

 

[Gigs_98]

Just finished watching. A bit of a letdown I must admit.

Now late mechanicals deciding PR obviously suck, but whether we like it or not, those moments massively influence the outcome more often than not. Just from the top of my head I'd say the number 1 or 2 favorite late in the race was taken out by a late mechanical in 3 of the last 6 editions (WVA this year, Moscon in 2021, Sagan in 2017) and that's really just the most glaring examples. It sucks but if you wan't cobbles racing you have to take it for what it is. Always spectacular but also often a lottery.

However what really annoys me about this iteration of PR being decided by a late mechanical, is that it feels like it just made the final 100 km a complete waste of time. From the first time MvdP attacked after the front group had formed, it must have been obvious to absolutely everyone that he and WVA were on a different level today. Every time one of them accelerated it was only the other one on their wheel, it's just that van Aert never commited when they had a gap. And with everyone else in their group deciding they were just going to try to hold on for as long as possible it was really about 80 km's of "when will WvA and MvdP finally battle it out". And then when they actually did battle it out one of them has a mechanical and the race is over. They genuinely just as well could have tossed a coin after Arenberg. It would have been just as fair and we wouldn't have spent two hours just to watch the coin toss at a later time.

I also feel for van Aert. This is the 2nd time after the Ronde 2020 where I feel it was absolutely 50:50 between him and his arch nemesis for the win of a monument and for the 2nd time his nemesis wins. I really don't think van der Poel is a significantly better classics rider (though he might have an edge in the Ronde) but by now their record against each other is looking pretty lopsided.

 

[Tim Cahill]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1645088133048934405

Champions attitude

 

[tobydawq]

Cameron Wurf decided to run a half marathon after finishing the race...

 

[Valv.Piti]

Cameron Wurf decided to run a half marathon after finishing the race...

Triathletes are smart people. Most are not good enough to pursue a career in track and fields, marathon running, swimming or cycling, but they sure are a different breed.

Just finished watching. A bit of a letdown I must admit.

Now late mechanicals deciding PR obviously suck, but whether we like it or not, those moments massively influence the outcome more often than not. Just from the top of my head I'd say the number 1 or 2 favorite late in the race was taken out by a late mechanical in 3 of the last 6 editions (WVA this year, Moscon in 2021, Sagan in 2017) and that's really just the most glaring examples. It sucks but if you wan't cobbles racing you have to take it for what it is. Always spectacular but also often a lottery.

However what really annoys me about this iteration of PR being decided by a late mechanical, is that it feels like it just made the final 100 km a complete waste of time. From the first time MvdP attacked after the front group had formed, it must have been obvious to absolutely everyone that he and WVA were on a different level today. Every time one of them accelerated it was only the other one on their wheel, it's just that van Aert never commited when they had a gap. And with everyone else in their group deciding they were just going to try to hold on for as long as possible it was really about 80 km's of "when will WvA and MvdP finally battle it out". And then when they actually did battle it out one of them has a mechanical and the race is over. They genuinely just as well could have tossed a coin after Arenberg. It would have been just as fair and we wouldn't have spent two hours just to watch the coin toss at a later time.

I also feel for van Aert. This is the 2nd time after the Ronde 2020 where I feel it was absolutely 50:50 between him and his arch nemesis for the win of a monument and for the 2nd time his nemesis wins. I really don't think van der Poel is a significantly better classics rider (though he might have an edge in the Ronde) but by now their record against each other is looking pretty lopsided.

Lets call it what it is: WIth better luck, it might as well have been 4-1, 4-2 or 4-3 at this point. It does suck, but there are other races than just the monuments. Obviously they are the biggest, but yeah.

Huge letdown on Carrefour yeah, but I think van Aert opening the finale so early was great and something I cant remember in Roubaix. The next 80 kilometres were somewhat boring at times, but they were still interesting to me I must admit. What the rest of the race also showed is you shouldnt take people serious who rate, say, Pedersen or Ganna, at the same level of those 2. They are at least one level above and the race was always a contest between the two of them seeing that Kung, Pedersen and Ganna didn't even try. They were gassed.

My theory is that van Aert would have been very difficult to catch if not for the flat. If Mathieu doesn't close it on the sector, I think its game, but we will never know. Wout was definitely on his A-game today and it shows that when facing Mathieu and Pogi, Roubaix is definitely - by far probably - his best race.

 

[Gigs_98]

If WVA was that strong he wouldn't have been looking around for help in the final 12 kms. He knew Phillipsen wouldn't ride with him and the others could barely contribute. The gap went from 18 seconds to 35 then VDP knew he had it won and backed off a little. I thought it was obvious who was the strongest.

Just as a general response to those thinking MvdP was just the strongest today. What's your argument? Like even if you think that he was the fastest on the cobbles today, he clearly wasn't able to drop WvA before his mechanical and you certainly cannot be sure he would have beaten him in a sprint. I just don't see how you can argue the mechanical wasn't an enormous game changer.

Also I'm not convinced the fact there was a crash massively affected Van Aert's decision to attack. 1km left on the Carrefour is a pretty standard spot, and he probably noticed a disturbance behind/beside him with riders slowing down (as happens all the time at Roubaix) rather than people actually falling. Either way, nothing wrong with what he did (a obviously nothing intentional from Philipsen/VdP)

Yeah I don't agree with the criticism for that attack either. I'm not sure if van Aert planned to attack there but he was clearly watching what van der Poel was doing and saw he was attacking before Philipsen closed the door on him. You can see on the footage that van Aert was already accelerating to react to the incoming van der Poel attack and when his opponents collided he simply didn't stop his acceleration. And it would have been super weird to do so anyway. If vdP had crashed you certainly cannot wait at that point in the race. And if he didn't (as was the case) it's vdP job to close the gap that opened due to a typical racing situation. I really don't think van Aert did anything wrong there.

 

[Nyanderc]

What kind of imbecile "fan" creates colored smoke just inside Arenberg sector, big crash exactly at that spot, removing van Baale and Asgreen among others from the race ?!
Have anyone heard more of this somewhere, maybe he was buried as a part of the sector for next year?

 

[Valv.Piti]

What kind of imbecile "fan" creates colored smoke just inside Arenberg sector, big crash exactly at that spot, removing van Baale and Asgreen among others from the race ?!
Have anyone heard more of this somewhere, maybe he was buried as a part of the sector for next year?

Noticed that immiediately as well. Good chances thats what caused it. Thats close to mama and papi levels!

Obviously van Aert didn't know that, but in general that sector is extremely dangerous, so I think that was the main reason for attacking as well honestly. Then at least you remove all that stress and randomness by a lot on Arenberg..

 

[Ricco']

Talking about other riders, I'm positively surprised by Mihkels being able to follow the WVA/MVP move until mechanical struck in Arenberg. I don't think he was even supposed to ride and only came after the amount of injuries and illnesses that struck Intermarché in the last weeks (Girmay, Van der Hoorn, etc.)

He has always been there about in the races he's done this season but he's been mostly in leadout duties for Gerben Thijssen so this short demonstration was more than I was expecting. Let's see if the team plans to have him ride for himself more in the last part of the season.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

Sam Welsford finished 132nd, btw. Guess looking like a bodybuilder is not a positive for competing in Roubaix.

 

[topcat]

Why do people like posts like these?

Because they have a sense of humour. I enjoyed the race myself and any one of WVA, MVDP or Philipsen would have been a worthy winner. The flat robbed us of an even better race but it was a good race.

 

[Zoetemelk-fan]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1645075248763502594

View: https://twitter.com/eurosport/status/1645075248763502594


Degenkolb is in position. MVP wants to move in front of him. Philipsen screws up and closes the gap. MVP sways from his line to avoid crashing into Philipsen. Takes out Degenkolb.
The kind of BS people post to defend their favorit rider. It isn´t a DQ but it´s clearly on the Alpecin guys.

Thats a harsh take on Philipsens move, with presumption that he knew exactly what was going on behind him in same moments.
To me it's obvious he didn't, and just a natural move when being on the limit, physically as well as mentally for quite some time, seeking for the easiest line. Every rider is zig-zagging.

It's a racing incident and a merciless, sad fate of Degenkolb. As the race itself is always merciless, and to many other riders today as well.

And it looks like they know what they did...

A clear over-interpretation based on a wrong presumption from the incident.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1645083205035253762

View: https://twitter.com/eurosport/status/1645083205035253762

This is a moment of great sportsmanship from a deserved winner. And knowing this must've really hurt on his competitor.

Though, I would very much have liked to see the "what if" of TJV had not been hit by accidents at very critical moments for both van Baarle, Laporte and Van Aert, of which the latter seems he in fact got the puncture before MvDP bridging to him. And, ofcourse the "what if" for Degenkolb.

Nonetheless, P-R is P-R, a cruel mercilessly race, though mostly with a well deserved winner, of which I'm convinced was the case this year as well.

MvDP anticipating the race with his aggresive racing style supported by being pretty much in-form and seems he finally has learned his lessons for the long runs (primarily eating and drinking at right moments and a tad less attack madness without loosing his soul conpletely).

Wout did what he could, at first anticipating the race with the surprice attack together with Laporte at l'Haveluy à Wallers to be atop of the pedals before l'Foret d'Aremberg, and played his cards cleverly when loosing Laporte, and punches at right times at sections suiting him over his competitors.

And as many others, really surprised about Philipsens stamina, this will give him confidence for future editions, surely.

And Degenkolb. As other writes, unfortunately probably his last swan song with a merciless unhappy ending. His consolation, however, should be that he probably couldn't do anything against Matthieu, Jasper and Wout anyway.

And as a Dane I completely forget about Pedersen. And often did in-race due to quite some things happening around him, and also due I hadn't expected anything from him in advance, when I saw the weather forecast and that I thought the distance should have been a little longer.
Here on the hindsight I have other thoughts. Though finally able to stay out of troubles in this race, I don't think +20k distance could have done any good to Mads. He looked pretty cooked at the end. But maybe his monster move at Aremberg and flat section just post in order to bridge to the favourites group took the toll on him in the end.

I consider this year's edition to be quite special in relation to the fact that relatively early on it became a race at the front between the favourites, where for a period it seemed like a bit of a standstill.
But when the race was run at that speed and therefore an early breakaway race, I don't think it could have been that much different. Apart from if the case had been on tve opposite that Alpacin having had all TJV's misfortunes at critical moments and TJV had stayed free

But this is Paris-Roubaix, and, from my perspective, luckily with the right winner

 

[Zoetemelk-fan]

And I agree with you. They would stay together until the velodrome unless Alpecin wanted to play the "numbers strategy"

In that case the "Alpacin play the numbers" tactics (MvDP wheelsucking in a tandem with WvA) would be with two annoying wasps as wheelsucking guests (both WvA and Pedersen not afraid of Küng+Ganna joining the party I think), so I think this "what if" can be closed down

But oh boy, now watching WvA's attack at Carrefour de l'Arbre for the 3rd time, it really strikes me that his puncture happened quite shortly after the attack on the right-turner, whereafter MvDP bridged the gap and surpassed him. But this is one of the forbidden "what ifs" I have to close down if I should be able to fall asleep by now At least I hope WvA sleeps well. But I think he does anyway after such a hard edition

 

[Red Rick]

Just finished watching. A bit of a letdown I must admit.

Now late mechanicals deciding PR obviously suck, but whether we like it or not, those moments massively influence the outcome more often than not. Just from the top of my head I'd say the number 1 or 2 favorite late in the race was taken out by a late mechanical in 3 of the last 6 editions (WVA this year, Moscon in 2021, Sagan in 2017) and that's really just the most glaring examples. It sucks but if you wan't cobbles racing you have to take it for what it is. Always spectacular but also often a lottery.

However what really annoys me about this iteration of PR being decided by a late mechanical, is that it feels like it just made the final 100 km a complete waste of time. From the first time MvdP attacked after the front group had formed, it must have been obvious to absolutely everyone that he and WVA were on a different level today. Every time one of them accelerated it was only the other one on their wheel, it's just that van Aert never commited when they had a gap. And with everyone else in their group deciding they were just going to try to hold on for as long as possible it was really about 80 km's of "when will WvA and MvdP finally battle it out". And then when they actually did battle it out one of them has a mechanical and the race is over. They genuinely just as well could have tossed a coin after Arenberg. It would have been just as fair and we wouldn't have spent two hours just to watch the coin toss at a later time.

I also feel for van Aert. This is the 2nd time after the Ronde 2020 where I feel it was absolutely 50:50 between him and his arch nemesis for the win of a monument and for the 2nd time his nemesis wins. I really don't think van der Poel is a significantly better classics rider (though he might have an edge in the Ronde) but by now their record against each other is looking pretty lopsided.

Yeah I got really hyped when Jumbo moved before Arenberg already but when Laporte flatted and that group came back it was extremely underwhelming. One thing that annoyed me was noone even making an attempt at getting away apart from Waldscheid.

And for some reason I find the Van der Poel/Van Aert H2H wars a lot more grating than say the Nibali/Valverde ones or the other ones.

 

[skippo12]

Thats a harsh take on Philipsens move, with presumption that he knew exactly what was going on behind him in same moments.
To me it's obvious he didn't, and just a natural move when being on the limit, physically as well as mentally for quite some time, seeking for the easiest line. Every rider is zig-zagging.

It's a racing incident and a merciless, sad fate of Degenkolb. As the race itself is always merciless, and to many other riders today as well.

Doesn´t matter if he knew what was happening behind him. No one is saying that it was on purpose. Still caused the crash. Takes a massive amount of homerism to blame Degenkolb for being overeager or protecting his position when you are praising MVP for his aggressive style in the same post. Staying in your lane is dangerous. Trying to move through small gaps is great racing.
But I guess it doesn´t matter as long as the "right" guy wins.

And I am not saying that anyone should have been DQ. Race incident is a fancy term but in the end more often than not a crash is caused by an individual mistake. In this case Philipsen and MVP.

 

[Gratemans]

Doesn´t matter if he knew what was happening behind him. No one is saying that it was on purpose. Still caused the crash. Takes a massive amount of homerism to blame Degenkolb for being overeager or protecting his position when you are praising MVP for his aggressive style in the same post. Staying in your lane is dangerous. Trying to move through small gaps is great racing.
But I guess it doesn´t matter as long as the "right" guy wins.

Same logic was used to defend Roglic after he took himself out of the Vuelta. Still a BS narrative. And I am not saying that anyone should have been DQ. Race incident is a fancy term but in the end more often than not a crash is caused by an individual mistake. In this case Philipsen and MVP.

I heard an interesting take on the whole matter from Dumoulin who was analysing for NOS. He thought VdP might have shouted at Philipsen that he was coming through. Philipsen misjudged where VdP's voice was coming from and went to the wrong side trying to make way. When I rewatch it, that seems pretty plausible.
I agree Degenkolb can't be blamed here, and I feel terrible for the guy, but this very clearly was just a racing incident in my book.

 

[Zoetemelk-fan]

Doesn´t matter if he knew what was happening behind him. No one is saying that it was on purpose. Still caused the crash. Takes a massive amount of homerism to blame Degenkolb for being overeager or protecting his position when you are praising MVP for his aggressive style in the same post. Staying in your lane is dangerous. Trying to move through small gaps is great racing.
But I guess it doesn´t matter as long as the "right" guy wins.

Hey, stay calm

1) As I wrote before my prime POV is it's a racing incident. My "blame" note was seen in relation to the wish of a DSQ of Philipsen or MvDP (which is bizarre), where on contrary Degenkolbs wing to MvDP might have been exchanged to taking MvDP's wherl instead. But Degenkolb is excused b/c everything happening so fast and just down to his reflexes when being pushed.
I still regards this as a racing incidence and you may call Philipsen clumsy, but to me his move was just natural, seeking for the easiest line, leading to an unfortunate outcome, when absolutely not aware of MvDP and Degenkolb at moves behind him just a splitsecond earlier.

I think we disagree here, if your POV is that Philipsen was aware that they were about to move on him. As I see it, he wasn't.
Edit: @Gratemans pick of Doumolin's info makes much sense in hindsight.

2) Being "aggressive" speaking MvDP I thought it was somewhat clear that I was writing about his breakaway attacks, and not litterally attacking his competitors physically.
Now it's written, and hope it's clear now

Peace and out
(been away from CN Forum for some months, leaving another non-cycling forum becoming toxic, and it was definitely not my meaning to bring toxics to here - as I wrote in my first post on the incident it's too harsh to blame Degenkolb, but my main POV was seemingly neglected, maybe my own fault writing a post about "if anyone is to blame" in relation to the angry posts against the Alpacin boys)

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Just finished watching. A bit of a letdown I must admit.

Now late mechanicals deciding PR obviously suck, but whether we like it or not, those moments massively influence the outcome more often than not. Just from the top of my head I'd say the number 1 or 2 favorite late in the race was taken out by a late mechanical in 3 of the last 6 editions (WVA this year, Moscon in 2021, Sagan in 2017) and that's really just the most glaring examples. It sucks but if you wan't cobbles racing you have to take it for what it is. Always spectacular but also often a lottery.

However what really annoys me about this iteration of PR being decided by a late mechanical, is that it feels like it just made the final 100 km a complete waste of time. From the first time MvdP attacked after the front group had formed, it must have been obvious to absolutely everyone that he and WVA were on a different level today. Every time one of them accelerated it was only the other one on their wheel, it's just that van Aert never commited when they had a gap. And with everyone else in their group deciding they were just going to try to hold on for as long as possible it was really about 80 km's of "when will WvA and MvdP finally battle it out". And then when they actually did battle it out one of them has a mechanical and the race is over. They genuinely just as well could have tossed a coin after Arenberg. It would have been just as fair and we wouldn't have spent two hours just to watch the coin toss at a later time.

I also feel for van Aert. This is the 2nd time after the Ronde 2020 where I feel it was absolutely 50:50 between him and his arch nemesis for the win of a monument and for the 2nd time his nemesis wins. I really don't think van der Poel is a significantly better classics rider (though he might have an edge in the Ronde) but by now their record against each other is looking pretty lopsided.

I disagree with the last bit. On Paris Roubaix I feel they are pretty even when both in top form, as Van Aert is simply better suited for those efforts. But top Van der Poel is on another level in RVV and MSR because he can play his trump card, ridicolous explosiveness.

 

[jmdirt]

No matter what, mechanicals are a very stochastic event, even just the location of it. Van Aert flatted at literally the worst moment possible, I don't see how you can say that's not terrible luck

If he made a 'risky' equipment choice that was the problem, but I guess the timing is still bad luck because it could have happened 50K earlier, and likely had less impact on his race.

 

[Gratemans]

I disagree with the last bit. On Paris Roubaix I feel they are pretty even when both in top form, as Van Aert is simply better suited for those efforts. But top Van der Poel is on another level in RVV and MSR because he can play his trump card, ridicolous explosiveness.

Aren't you actually agreeing with Gigs then?

Anyway, for the neutral observer this was kinda shite to be honest. MSR was mano-a-mano. This one shoulda/coulda been so as well. As Gigs put it, those 100k were pretty meh, but we were all in anticipation of the big show-off between Wout, Mathieu and maybe some outsiders. Alas, once again the gods of cycling have shown us just how cruel they can be.