Paris-Roubaix 2023, one day monument, April 9 (men's)

[Oldermanish]

Well personally I hate sealant as well and am perfectly happy with wide rims and latex tubes, but when I do have to deal with tubeless (i.e. gravel/mtb) it's still less bad than gluing sew-ups.

I'm wondering if the tubeless tires we saw fall off were of the hookless rim variety.

Don't know about the tubeless roll-offs and we probably won't know as long as they're paid to ride them. I've always had good luck with 27cm sewups but always used Vittorria Pave' for racing. When the tread got worn I'd change them. Trained on their most impenetrable tube version but still would get the random wire puncture from drivers overusing their car radials. Occasionally the pinch flat which would be risk #1 for pave. I can't imagine not running something 30cm+ for a race like PR, though.

 

[proffate]

puncture from drivers overusing their car radials.

Hopefully not too many of these gators (as I've heard them called) on the pave or farm roads of the spring classics. If pinches are the main problem, why aren't they airing up? Obviously less air leads to a smoother ride but no air leads to a very rough one. Without having ridden in that area myself, I wouldn't know if the pave is sharp enough to cut the tires or if there are other threats such as thorns. In any case, both tubeless and tubular have problems on the cobbles.

It makes no sense to me that they tried suspension once in the 90s and then abandoned it because of one high-profile failure. Seems like a no-brainer for this particular race. I guess the market for road bikes with suspension is too small.

 

[Oldermanish]

Hopefully not too many of these gators (as I've heard them called) on the pave or farm roads of the spring classics. If pinches are the main problem, why aren't they airing up? Obviously less air leads to a smoother ride but no air leads to a very rough one. Without having ridden in that area myself, I wouldn't know if the pave is sharp enough to cut the tires or if there are other threats such as thorns. In any case, both tubeless and tubular have problems on the cobbles.

It makes no sense to me that they tried suspension once in the 90s and then abandoned it because of one high-profile failure. Seems like a no-brainer for this particular race. I guess the market for road bikes with suspension is too small.

Actually you're on to the hybridization of gravel bikes that would be the perfect blend. I'm on a 3T with no suspension and manage talus and rocks that mountain bikes handle better. The PR environment would love the 32 cm tires at 30+ psi....with tubes that beat me up in the hills because the pave' is relatively rhythmic compared to our sh*t. There are now front forks that seem reliable to be the bridge to a cushier ride for lighter "rouleurs".
The aversion to suspension has more to do with the sponsored road bikes than the actual benefit/loss. A pro on a Canyon winning Roubaix probably boosted sales all the way down to townie bikes. Specialized had "Roubaix" bikes that were kitched-up with elastomeric chain-stay dampers and other geometric bonuses. How many Specialized riders sat on a "Roubaix" model? I don't know but the question goes back to things like variable air-pressure hubs. Are they reliable and worth the money?
Did anyone race those after the JV rumors?
PR tends to keep things pretty simple since hyped innovation can crash and burn spectacularly in spite of everything. The race is unique and investment in tech is not rewarded well.

 

[Volderke]

The aversion to suspension has more to do with the sponsored road bikes than the actual benefit/loss. A pro on a Canyon winning Roubaix probably boosted sales all the way down to townie bikes. Specialized had "Roubaix" bikes that were kitched-up with elastomeric chain-stay dampers and other geometric bonuses. How many Specialized riders sat on a "Roubaix" model? I don't know but the question goes back to things like variable air-pressure hubs. Are they reliable and worth the money?
Did anyone race those after the JV rumors?
PR tends to keep things pretty simple since hyped innovation can crash and burn spectacularly in spite of everything. The race is unique and investment in tech is not rewarded well.

260K at 45+ K/hr with 200K on asphalt = the winner (MvdP) on 28mm tires on his aero road bike. That seems to make sense, irregardless of sponsor pressure.
Sagan was on a sort of Roubaix bike with the headset suspension (and mechanical Dura Ace), but even without his crash, he wouldn't have been a factor, so hard to say anything about the added value of the dampers.
JV and DSM had riders on Atmoz / Scope pressure systems, e.g. Affini, Laporte, Eekhoff, Bittner.

 

[Salvarani]

So, now he has taken down Van Baarle and Roglic. That's half of Jumbo's best riders.

Maybe they should sign him to be proactive, but he will continue to create havoc until the end of 2025 by the look of things.

 

[proffate]

Actually you're on to the hybridization of gravel bikes that would be the perfect blend. I'm on a 3T with no suspension and manage talus and rocks that mountain bikes handle better. The PR environment would love the 32 cm tires at 30+ psi....with tubes that beat me up in the hills because the pave' is relatively rhythmic compared to our sh*t. There are now front forks that seem reliable to be the bridge to a cushier ride for lighter "rouleurs".
The aversion to suspension has more to do with the sponsored road bikes than the actual benefit/loss. A pro on a Canyon winning Roubaix probably boosted sales all the way down to townie bikes. Specialized had "Roubaix" bikes that were kitched-up with elastomeric chain-stay dampers and other geometric bonuses. How many Specialized riders sat on a "Roubaix" model? I don't know but the question goes back to things like variable air-pressure hubs. Are they reliable and worth the money?
Did anyone race those after the JV rumors?
PR tends to keep things pretty simple since hyped innovation can crash and burn spectacularly in spite of everything. The race is unique and investment in tech is not rewarded well.

If a manufacturer like Canyon could get a PR win on something they market as a race-oriented gravel bike, I do think gravel jocks would go bonkers for it.

The isospeed stuff on the domane and some of Trek's other bikes is a useful bit of "suspension" but the zertz inserts were obviously ornamentation. I have used a domane to race on unpaved Colorado farm roads against road bikes and at least for that particular kind of rough, I found ~20-30w of savings relative to pure road bikes. But I don't think that would apply equally to pave, which is why I suggest actual suspension, which ideally looks like something akin to what's on the trek supercaliber, but perhaps a stem/seatpost doohickey is sufficient if a whole frame swap is impractical.

 

[Oldermanish]

Don't know about the tubeless roll-offs and we probably won't know as long as they're paid to ride them. I've always had good luck with 27cm sewups but always used Vittorria Pave' for racing. When the tread got worn I'd change them. Trained on their most impenetrable tube version but still would get the random wire puncture from drivers overusing their car radials. Occasionally the pinch flat which would be risk #1 for pave. I can't imagine not running something 30cm+ for a race like PR, though.

Well we do have some opinions from the peleton:

Neither Israel-Premier Tech nor Bahrain Victorious explained the reasons for their respective crashes after Paris-Roubaix. Israel-Premier Tech preferred not to comment when contacted with specific questions about their use of tubeless tyres and inserts while Bahrain Victorious had not replied at the time of publication.


READ MORE
Paris-Roubaix tech gallery: A deep dive into the tech from the men's race


As it happened: Paris-Roubaix 2023
Rowe shared his thoughts on the Paris-Roubaix crashes and his theory on the importance of tubeless inserts during the latest Watts Occuring podcast with teammate and fellow Welshman Geraint Thomas.

“I’ve got a bit of a theory of why there were so many crashes in Roubaix this year,” Rowe said.

“Everyone is riding tubeless now, whereas the year before it was probably 50-50 and the year before that everyone was riding tubulars. Now everyone is riding tubeless and if you puncture, you lose all pressure instantly.

“I think a lot of teams are not using liners but they’re putting their lives at risk. I really think it’s a big cause of so many crashes in Roubaix.

“I think, and I’m not going to say names or teams, but we (Ineos Grenadiers) ride with liners (inserts), so if you puncture, it keeps the shape of the type and a little bit of the pressure and you’re not straight on the rim.

“But it’s two or three watts faster without liners, so I think that people are that desperate that they’re racing without liners, but if they crash, and I’ve seen it happen so many times, the tyre just goes straight off the rim and you’ve got no chance.”

Rowe revealed that he opted to use foam inserts even for normal road races, to give him extra security in the case of a tyre blowout.

“They (Ineos Grenadiers) asked us about it and I said I’d rather get dropped because I can’t produce the extra two or three watts,” Rowe said.

Tubeless tyre and rim standards are guided by the European Tire Rim Technical Organization (E.T.R.T.O), who issue guidelines on engineering, dimensions, load and pressure characteristics. Their work helps avoid infinite types of tyres, shapes, and rim sizes and in turn, the risk of incompatible matching, potential crashes and injury. However, ETRTO-compliant tyres and rims all fall within a specified range of accepted real-world sizing, and it's possible that some combinations of wheel and tyre do create a greater chance of a tyre detaching from a rim.

Nibali was known for his bike handling skills during his long professional career and has a passion for bike mechanics. He posted his doubts about tubeless tyres on Instagram, with a screen grab image of Wright’s tyre coming off the rim as he crashed.

“Tubeless will never be as safe as tubulars. Make sure you know it!” Nibali wrote.

 

[proffate]

Was wondering if inserts were a thing. Seems like it defeats the purpose of racing on tubeless if you have to use the inserts which make you slower again.

 

[Oldermanish]

Was wondering if inserts were a thing. Seems like it defeats the purpose of racing on tubeless if you have to use the inserts which make you slower again.

Gravel riders like Cushcore for dampening/suspension qualities as well, though I've never ridden them. They do add weight on a tubeless installation but claim some improvements in rolling resistance, lower allowable pressures.....$150 set and whatever tubeless puncture resistance you apply. Seems like a serious mess if you need a tire change and you have liquid filler but I'd appreciate a user's expertise on that product.