Pathological dishonesty

[VeloFidelis]

I am not sure what is more comical, when the groupies cry like babies when someone questions the myth or when somebody says we should not question if Armstrong is a *** or a narcissist.

Armstrong is a public figure who for years has made multiple questionable public claims and actions. To ask that we should sit by and not question his ofter ridiculous claims and behavior is ludicrous.

I understand that many of his fans are embarrassed by his actions and would prefer that nobody question his dubious claims.....but that is not going to happen.

Dude!! Look around this thread. No one cares as much about LA as you and your dour fellow posters. You are the "Groupies". The rest of us don't give a sh!t about his dubious claims. He is a media personality, that's what they do! Question all you like. That's what groupies do. Just don't confuse it to be anything meaningful.

 

[Black-Balled]

Your list isn't completely accurate. ...Correlations have been found with childred who suffer from pyromania, bedwetting and abuse of animals getting antisocial personality disorder as an adult. Anyone know about Lance as a kid?

He was younger then.

The guy is a Champion. He does not approach life and its decisions the way normal- read: average- humans do.

I believe Alpha-Alpha is the correct label.

 

[kurtinsc]

As has been pointed out, it's whiner, not winer, although, I would gladly hold my hand up to being one of the latter.

Now, as to why we Lance realists would be unhappy about him fetching water for Contador's old domestiques, is beyond me.
We should all hope he's on the level, for once.

For Lance believers, on the other hand, this annoucement must be a great disappointment.
As I have already said, assuming his true fans really do believe all he proclaims.

What is interesting is that, of the 20 odd people who have voted in the affirmative, not one has posted of their belief and sentiments, in this respect.

Actually LOTS of people are stupid enough to believe him.

Why? Because the average fan of Lance is NOT a fan of cycling. They don't know much about it... or him. They will watch the tour and cheer when he wins, but they aren't a fan of the sport in general. They just like an American who in their minds dominated the sport completely (even though it was really just the biggest race in the sport... not the sport as a whole).

So for the vast majoring of people reading the quote... they believe it completely. It's kind of like how about 30% of the American public think the President of the US was born in Kenya or is a citizen of Indonesia.

People in general are EXTREMELY stupid. Individuals can be smart... but people are total idiots.

 

[kurtinsc]

He was younger then.

The guy is a Champion. He does not approach life and its decisions the way normal- read: average- humans do.

I believe Alpha-Alpha is the correct label.

Are you indicating he DID suffer from these three? If that's the case I'll revise my opinion that he just has a big ego and admit he probably does have antisocial personality disorder. The correllation between youth who suffer between all three of these problems and adults with APD is VERY strong.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Dude!! Look around this thread. No one cares as much about LA as you and your dour fellow posters. You are the "Groupies". The rest of us don't give a sh!t about his dubious claims. He is a media personality, that's what they do! Question all you like. That's what groupies do. Just don't confuse it to be anything meaningful.

If you "don't give a sh!t" why are you here? You are interupting a discussion to point out that you don't care about what is being discussed?

 

[Race Radio]

Dude!! Look around this thread. No one cares as much about LA as you and your dour fellow posters. You are the "Groupies". The rest of us don't give a sh!t about his dubious claims. He is a media personality, that's what they do! Question all you like. That's what groupies do. Just don't confuse it to be anything meaningful.

What is a greater waste, that I question Armstrong ridiculous lies or you question a bunch of guys on a message board?

This is a cycling message board. It is where people go to discuss the good and the bad of the sport. You should not be shocked if you come here and people happen to be discussing the latest lie by the biggest name in the sport.

 

[thehog]

I heard Don Catlin was a dealer and was addicted to smack.

Oh wait, maybe that was some other cancer lover. So hard to keep track.

You need to start a thread of the top 10 Lance lies. Well better make it Top 20.

I'll start:

1. Losing weight of cancer transformed his body into a grand tour winner.
2. Lance's VO2 max is higher than any other human being that ever lived.
3. High cadence riding makes you ride up mountains faster.

but I think 2009 takes the prize. Just brillant. Apprently the prgram was agreed and in place.. and then it wasn't in place or contract signed.

To refresh the memories of fanclub:

According to Lance Armstrong, “My goal in agreeing to participate in this program is to reduce speculation and debate about drug testing issues that might divert attention away from what my cycling comeback is all about – our global cancer campaign. I am riding in 2009 to help end the stigma of cancer, build a grassroots movement about worldwide cancer collaboration, and make cancer a worldwide priority.”

According to Dr. Don Catlin, “We have developed an extensive monitoring program. It accomplishes my goals:

1. To have high frequency testing to maximize the amount of data collected and minimize possibilities the athlete might have to thwart the system,

2. To store frozen samples for two to eight years to give ADSI the ability to perform new or additional tests, and

3. To be independent and offer program transparency to the public and international anti-doping authorities."

 

[Black-Balled]

Are you indicating he DID suffer from these three? If that's the case I'll revise my opinion that he just has a big ego and admit he probably does have antisocial personality disorder. The correllation between youth who suffer between all three of these problems and adults with APD is VERY strong.

Three what? Nipples? That is preposterous and I neder said that.

 

[Black-Balled]

If you "don't give a sh!t" why are you here? You are interupting a discussion to point out that you don't care about what is being discussed?

Awesome fact display. Does it come from Harrisonburg?

 

[Race Radio]

You need to start a thread of the top 10 Lance lies. Well better make it Top 20.

I'll start:

1. Losing weight of cancer transformed his body into a grand tour winner.
2. Lance's VO2 max is higher than any other human being that ever lived.
3. High cadence riding makes you ride up mountains faster.

but I think 2009 takes the prize. Just brillant. Apprently the prgram was agreed and in place.. and then it wasn't in place or contract signed.

To refresh the memories of fanclub:

According to Lance Armstrong, “My goal in agreeing to participate in this program is to reduce speculation and debate about drug testing issues that might divert attention away from what my cycling comeback is all about – our global cancer campaign. I am riding in 2009 to help end the stigma of cancer, build a grassroots movement about worldwide cancer collaboration, and make cancer a worldwide priority.”

According to Dr. Don Catlin, “We have developed an extensive monitoring program. It accomplishes my goals:

1. To have high frequency testing to maximize the amount of data collected and minimize possibilities the athlete might have to thwart the system,

2. To store frozen samples for two to eight years to give ADSI the ability to perform new or additional tests, and

3. To be independent and offer program transparency to the public and international anti-doping authorities."

We already have that thread. You can add to it here

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=2669&highlight=armstrong+lies

 

[thehog]

We already have that thread. You can add to it here

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=2669&highlight=armstrong+lies

Legend. Thankyou.

My night in is complete! To think I was going to watch survivor reruns on HBO!

 

[ImmaculateKadence]

What is interesting is that, of the 20 odd people who have voted in the affirmative, not one has posted of their belief and sentiments, in this respect.

Fair enough.

I think he's speaking to the entire season: classics, minor tours and GTs, and he has already shown a willingness to work for others last year at the ToC and the Giro. He'll support Levi at California again and possibly Dauphine. As for the Tour, he will be the strongest on the team, but JB will keep talking about the multiple cards they could play. Though If Levi gets in a position to win late in the race (say like Lance did last year in the crosswinds or in a time trial), then Lance would defer to him. Although, Levi will be looking back on all the climbs, similar to AS and FS.

That's my take. Feel free to agree or refute.

 

[richwagmn]

Fair enough.

I think he's speaking to the entire season: classics, minor tours and GTs, and he has already shown a willingness to work for others last year at the ToC and the Giro. He'll support Levi at California again and possibly Dauphine. As for the Tour, he will be the strongest on the team, but JB will keep talking about the multiple cards they could play. Though If Levi gets in a position to win late in the race (say like Lance did last year in the crosswinds or in a time trial), then Lance would defer to him. Although, Levi will be looking back on all the climbs, similar to AS and FS.

That's my take. Feel free to agree or refute.

I don't think Levi has it in him (psychologically that is) to win the TDF. I'm sure he in no way could wrestle LA for leadership the way AC did. LL is definitely a strong rider, but I think he's missing the killer instinct needed to win a GT.

Obviously, LA isn't contending a number of races he's in. That's true for almost all the GT contenders. But it's just talk from him that he'd support any other rider for the TDF (assuming he doesn't have some kind of day when loses 5 minutes or something).

I think LA is trying to "remake" his image in the peloton. He seems to be on a midlife crisis sort of thing where we wants to correct some past wrongs (insisting on Andreau interviewing him in the tour, denying that he chased down Simeoni etc). And of course there are the denials about stuff we talk about in the doping forum.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Fair enough.

I think he's speaking to the entire season: classics, minor tours and GTs, and he has already shown a willingness to work for others last year at the ToC and the Giro. He'll support Levi at California again and possibly Dauphine. As for the Tour, he will be the strongest on the team, but JB will keep talking about the multiple cards they could play. Though If Levi gets in a position to win late in the race (say like Lance did last year in the crosswinds or in a time trial), then Lance would defer to him. Although, Levi will be looking back on all the climbs, similar to AS and FS.

That's my take. Feel free to agree or refute.

I don't see anything to disagree with, in respect of these goals.

 

[Berzin]

Whether or not Armstrong is a sociopath is besides the point. The heart of the matter is he needs to get soundly beaten out on the road. He needs a beat-down of astronomical proportions. And he deserves it for going down in history as as the worst possible teammate on a Tour team since Bernard Hinault.

Hinault was an a-hole but he had the good sense to retire when he saw the writing on the wall. He was able to leave the sport without having to concede defeat to anyone, even though in the back of his mind he knew what everyone else knew-that as long as Lemond was in the peloton he'd never win the Tour again.

The problem with last year's course was that it was not decisive enough to convince anyone one way or another who the clearly superior rider was. Armstrong was shielded by a team time trial that had his opponents struggling to regain time. But there was nowhere to gain time because the mountain stages all ended in downhill finishes with the exception of two. And on the other stages Armstrong was protected by some very strong domestiques.

So Armstrong walks away convinced he can beat Contador. Yet his performances in the individual time trial and the fact that he could not attack anywhere on those two mountain stages because he was physically incapable was not enough to convince him or his legion of fans that he can't win the Tour anymore.

He has everyone believing that he can come back stronger than ever, that he can recover day-to-day like no other rider in the world, that a small change in saddle position was enough for him to regain his legs (anyone remember that one from last year?) I think Armstrong lies so much not because of some innate mental illness but because he wants to see how much of his BS his fanboys will eat up.

But next year, there will be instances where he will have nowhere to hide. He will have to ride the individual time trial by himself. He will have to answer attacks in the mountains by himself. No Levi, no Kloden. Just him and his opponents.

Riis also plays a part in this, it's not just about Alberto And Lance. Riis will hurt his team's chances at securing a win by protecting the yellow jersey during the first eight days of the Tour, so if Cancellara gets it on the first day, he needs to do the smart thing and just let it go.

Getting his behind kicked is the only thing that will humble this man. Nothing else matters, and nothing else will make him go away. It's up to the rest of the peloton to say "enough is enough".

 

[Race Radio]

As for the Tour, he will be the strongest on the team, but JB will keep talking about the multiple cards they could play. .

For the first week of the Tour Lance was 4th best on his team. Kloden killed him in the TT and had to pace him up some of the climbs when he was dropped....of course this changed on the rest day (Blood Bag?)

 

[ImmaculateKadence]

I don't think Levi has it in him (psychologically that is) to win the TDF. I'm sure he in no way could wrestle LA for leadership the way AC did. LL is definitely a strong rider, but I think he's missing the killer instinct needed to win a GT.

Obviously, LA isn't contending a number of races he's in. That's true for almost all the GT contenders. But it's just talk from him that he'd support any other rider for the TDF (assuming he doesn't have some kind of day when loses 5 minutes or something).

I think LA is trying to "remake" his image in the peloton. He seems to be on a midlife crisis sort of thing where we wants to correct some past wrongs (insisting on Andreau interviewing him in the tour, denying that he chased down Simeoni etc). And of course there are the denials about stuff we talk about in the doping forum.

You make a good point about Levi's lack of a killer instinct in Grand Tours. That's basically what I meant by him looking back for Lance should he get ahead on a climb. It's as though, subconsciously, he would be asking for direction or even permission. If he were in a position to take the MJ, I really think he would hesitate allowing Lance to take that spot.

I do agree with Lance attempting to rebuild his image. Since the comeback, he's tried to straddle the fence more than I remember in years prior, or maybe I'm just noticing it. I'm not sure what you guys talk about in the clinic, as I've never once checked that forum. I'm well aware of Lance's doping accusations (doping in general), but I don't put much weight to most of those claims, especially those coming from former dopers.

I choose not to harp on the doping involved in cycling. I don't ignore it, but it ruins what I love about the sport, so you'll rarely see me discuss it.

 

[Anonymous]

Why is everyone surprised? He played possum last year too. Nothing new that many athletes don't do already.

 

[Anonymous]

Dude!! Look around this thread. No one cares as much about LA as you and your dour fellow posters. You are the "Groupies". The rest of us don't give a sh!t about his dubious claims. He is a media personality, that's what they do! Question all you like. That's what groupies do. Just don't confuse it to be anything meaningful.

And nobody cares as much about us as do you. Do you get the point of your own posts?

 

[Anonymous]

What is a greater waste, that I question Armstrong ridiculous lies or you question a bunch of guys on a message board?

This is a cycling message board. It is where people go to discuss the good and the bad of the sport. You should not be shocked if you come here and people happen to be discussing the latest lie by the biggest name in the sport.

On top of the fact that none of us wrote the freaking article. We are merely discussing the article with our myriad of individual takes on it. The stupid thing here is the banter about how we shouldn't have an opinion about an article or its subject. I am guessing these people who get their feelings hurt regarding their hero have opinions about other things that they share. Only, they don't like my opinion, so they try to say I have no right to post it? Sorry, but the Uniballer is a fraud and that is what they cannot stand.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

People in general are EXTREMELY stupid. Individuals can be smart... but people are total idiots.

Good post.

Good post RR, love the new avatar btw!

 

[Anonymous]

Fair enough.

I think he's speaking to the entire season: classics, minor tours and GTs, and he has already shown a willingness to work for others last year at the ToC and the Giro. He'll support Levi at California again and possibly Dauphine. As for the Tour, he will be the strongest on the team, but JB will keep talking about the multiple cards they could play. Though If Levi gets in a position to win late in the race (say like Lance did last year in the crosswinds or in a time trial), then Lance would defer to him. Although, Levi will be looking back on all the climbs, similar to AS and FS.

That's my take. Feel free to agree or refute.

See, an intelligent counterpoint can be brought to the fore. Thank you for engaging in topic discussion instead of engaging in crying about what someone else thinks that you don't agree with/believe shouldn't be discussed.

 

[Anonymous]

If you "don't give a sh!t" why are you here? You are interupting a discussion to point out that you don't care about what is being discussed?

Boggles the mind, doesn't it?

 

[ImmaculateKadence]

See, an intelligent counterpoint can be brought to the fore. Thank you for engaging in topic discussion instead of engaging in crying about what someone else thinks that you don't agree with/believe shouldn't be discussed.

Well to be fair I kind of did both , but thanks for the compliment.

 

[hfer07]

"The days of this team being built around me are done," Armstrong said concisely. "I'm 38 now, I'll be 39 this season - it would be irresponsible to build it around me. Going into the Tour we have to look at Levi [Leipheimer], [Andreas] Klöden, the tactics, the ideas that we use..."