Pathological dishonesty

[auscyclefan94]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lance-armstrong-radioshack-not-built-around-me

Is there anyone else in the world that believes this but him?

Thoughtfor food, i think it would of been a better poll if you asked, " Does anyone here believe Armstrong?
Still an interesting thread.

KEY: stage racers, sprints, one day racers

Just thought i would review how well balanced this team is.
Lance Armstrong (USA) - General Classification for stage races
Fumiyuki Beppu (Jpn) - Domestique for stage races
Sam Bewley (NZl) - Sprinting domestique for Steegmans
Jani Brajkovic (Slo) - Domestique for stage races/ can do one day races
Matthew Busche (USA) -
Ben Hermans (Bel) -
Chris Horner (USA) - Domestique for stage races
Daryl Impey (RSA) - Sprinting domestique
Markel Irizar (Spa) - Stage race domestique
Andreas Klöden (Ger) - Domestique/ possible leader for stage races
Levi Leipheimer (USA) - Domestique/ possible leader for stage races
Geoffroy Lequatre (Fra) - Domestique for stage races
Fuyu Li (Chn) - Domestique for stage races
Tiago Machado (Por) -
Jason McCartney (USA) - Domestique for stage races
Dmitriy Muravyev (Kaz) - Domestique for stage races/ can do one day races
Sérgio Paulinho (Por) - Domestique for stage races
Yaroslav Popovych (Ukr) - Domestique for stage races
Gregory Rast (Swi) - Domestique for stage races/ can do one day races
Sébastien Rosseler (Bel) - Domestique for stage races
Ivan Rovny (Rus) - Domestique for stage races
José Luis Rubiera (Spa) - Domestique for stage races
Bjorn Selander (USA) -
Gert Steegmans (Bel) - Main Sprinter
Tomas Vaitkus (Ltu) - Domestique for sprints/stage races + one day racer
Haimar Zubeldia (Spa) -Domestique for stage races/ can lead some races

PLEASE NOTE:I have left a few people blank as I know not much about them and the roles of these riders is based on the results and common knowledge of the rider. If you have any suggestions please do so. Just a little one dimensional...

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Because the average fan of Lance is NOT a fan of cycling. They don't know much about it... or him. They will watch the tour and cheer when he wins, but they aren't a fan of the sport in general.

Succinctly and accurately put.

 

[racerralph]

As has been pointed out, it's whiner, not winer, although, I would gladly hold my hand up to being one of the latter.

Now, as to why we Lance realists would be unhappy about him fetching water for Contador's old domestiques, is beyond me.
We should all hope he's on the level, for once.

For Lance believers, on the other hand, this annoucement must be a great disappointment.
As I have already said, assuming his true fans really do believe all he proclaims.

What is interesting is that, of the 20 odd people who have voted in the affirmative, not one has posted of their belief and sentiments, in this respect.

Sorry, I'm kid of late in noting my reason for voting in the affirmative, but it really is very simple. Lots of people "believe" him, in their confused condition of being LA fans. The reason it is a "confused" state, is because even though LA professes that the strongest rider will be the one that will ultimately emerge as the leader that they will all rally around, whether it's him or not. The fans still believe that it WILL be LA, in the end. They cannot help but believe otherwise. So it is foolish to think that those fans walk around with their eyes open, and wonder whether they are being BS'd 'til next July. I, on the other hand thought it was a bunch of swill, puked out yet again, by His Majesty, in his patented way of trying to fake the whole peloton out. I think that it's going to be less effective next year, than it was this year. But hey, that only one man's opinion.

 

[racerralph]

Dude...enlightenment shines on you. Hey, now that these people have solved our problems, and shown us the light, what say we do some yoga and drink so wheatgrass?

I guess my question to people like VeloFidelas is, if you spend time decrying those who are discussing a topic you find pointless, what explains the pointlessness of your post? I posted about Lance and you posted about those of us who post about Lance. I live my life, so why should you care what I do? You might all do well to accept me as a fact of life in this forum that you cannot change... And move on.

Dude, enlightenment is bitchin'







NOTE: I was hoping I jerked the chain hard enough....

Beautifully articulated, right to the point! BRAVO!!!

 

[auscyclefan94]

Just in, a new part of the press conference with JB and LA about AC.
Here are some interesting quotes

"Over the last 10 years there was always been this built in conflict with Jan [Ullrich] ... and later [Joseba] Beloki," he said, recounting the reports in the pre-Tour build ups comparing his preparation to that of his competitors and likening it to the great rivalries in other sports. "There's always a rivalry - that's what people want, it's what they pay attention to, it is why they sit in front of their TV screens to watch on game day. LA

"It was not good, but it was do-able," said Bruyneel. "I never had the feeling I could not get through it. My relationship with Lance is a lot stronger, and I could be considered not neutral, but I think I was very neutral. I always made the right decisions in the race for the good of the team and for trying to win the Tour." JB

"There was nothing I could have done differently,” said Bruyneel. “I was in a tough spot - I was constantly in between two opposed egos."I always had in mind that the strongest rider would win the Tour, and that made my job easier,” he added. “Alberto was the strongest guy. I also knew that Lance was realistic enough, and he's enough of a team player to accept when someone else is in a better position." JB

So LA caused a rivalry in Astana so more people would watch the sport . That's BS.

 

[VeloFidelis]

I guess my question to people like VeloFidelas is, if you spend time decrying those who are discussing a topic you find pointless, what explains the pointlessness of your post? I posted about Lance and you posted about those of us who post about Lance. I live my life, so why should you care what I do? You might all do well to accept me as a fact of life in this forum that you cannot change... And move on.

Dude, enlightenment is bitchin'

NOTE: I was hoping I jerked the chain hard enough....

Gee, sorry not to have gotten right back on this, but damn it, the rest of my life got in the way and I just got busy. You know how that is... mmm maybe not.

So... where to start? I thought the thread title was "Pathological Dishonesty" so I naively assumed that yours was fair game along with every one else's. Do you get a hall pass because it's your thread?

I admit that I admire so many of your posts. You have a diabolical ability to obfuscate any topic with contradiction, pretzel logic and extraneous thread tangents that lean heavily towards paranoid delusion. How this ever got to be about your right to post on LA eludes me. Mine was just agreeing with another post that labeled this thread as "pathological hate mongering". They are not the same.

You like to take your position and then chide, belittle, and attempt to bully anyone who doesn't agree with you. You've done it with others on this thread. Or you deflect any competent dissenter as a "fanboy" and blind follower of LA, whose idol worship has clouded all rational thought. You tried that with me once before, and spent hours reading all my posts looking for that evidence before concluding otherwise, and making a public apology to me on this very site.

I believe that your incessant need to post on LA is at the center of a Love / Hate relationship that you have with him. He is like alcohol to an alcoholic for you. A demon you should hate enough to exorcise from your thoughts, but then again, you just can't seem to help yourself. Your intense need to keep the conversation going is certainly your right, but you should really speak to a professional about it.

Let me apply some of your obtuse logic; LA lives his life, so why should you care what he does? Here's the deal; I'll accept you as a fact of life when you do the same with LA, or me, or anyone who disagrees with you. But I don't think I will be holding my breath on that one, because I'm pretty well convinced you don't have a life. Your 3573 posts since last March is more than 13 posts a day... EVERY SINGLE DAY! You need to put down the mouse and go outside, because what you call passion for the sport is really just another OCD.

I am sure that the fur will fly in some excoriating reply, but quite frankly I don't have the time or inclination to try and pick some salient thread of logic out of it. I've got other sh!t to do... You should too.

So let the vilification begin. I'll check back in a week or two to see how your doing with that. I am absolutely positive that I know right where to find you. You'll be right here jerkin on that same tired chain you've been jerkin on for the last nine months.

Note: For the record; we already know he's an a$$hole.

 

[Anonymous]

Fair enough.

I think he's speaking to the entire season: classics, minor tours and GTs, and he has already shown a willingness to work for others last year at the ToC and the Giro. He'll support Levi at California again and possibly Dauphine. As for the Tour, he will be the strongest on the team, but JB will keep talking about the multiple cards they could play. Though If Levi gets in a position to win late in the race (say like Lance did last year in the crosswinds or in a time trial), then Lance would defer to him. Although, Levi will be looking back on all the climbs, similar to AS and FS.

That's my take. Feel free to agree or refute.

Good post, that's my view. And don't forget that RadioShack has a four (or five?) year pro tour license, so he's obviously got a few kids in there for the future after he's gone, which will probably be at the end of next year.

It amazes me that people get so upset about an interview like this.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Gee, sorry not to have gotten right back on this, but damn it, the rest of my life got in the way and I just got busy. You know how that is... mmm maybe not.

So... where to start? I thought the thread title was "Pathological Dishonesty" so I naively assumed that yours was fair game along with every one else's. Do you get a hall pass because it's your thread?

I admit that I admire so many of your posts. You have a diabolical ability to obfuscate any topic with contradiction, pretzel logic and extraneous thread tangents that lean heavily towards paranoid delusion. How this ever got to be about your right to post on LA eludes me. Mine was just agreeing with another post that labeled this thread as "pathological hate mongering". They are not the same.

You like to take your position and then chide, belittle, and attempt to bully anyone who doesn't agree with you. You've done it with others on this thread. Or you deflect any competent dissenter as a "fanboy" and blind follower of LA, whose idol worship has clouded all rational thought. You tried that with me once before, and spent hours reading all my posts looking for that evidence before concluding otherwise, and making a public apology to me on this very site.

I believe that your incessant need to post on LA is at the center of a Love / Hate relationship that you have with him. He is like alcohol to an alcoholic for you. A demon you should hate enough to exorcise from your thoughts, but then again, you just can't seem to help yourself. Your intense need to keep the conversation going is certainly your right, but you should really speak to a professional about it.

Let me apply some of your obtuse logic; LA lives his life, so why should you care what he does? Here's the deal; I'll accept you as a fact of life when you do the same with LA, or me, or anyone who disagrees with you. But I don't think I will be holding my breath on that one, because I'm pretty well convinced you don't have a life. Your 3573 posts since last March is more than 13 posts a day... EVERY SINGLE DAY! You need to put down the mouse and go outside, because what you call passion for the sport is really just another OCD.

I am sure that the fur will fly in some excoriating reply, but quite frankly I don't have the time or inclination to try and pick some salient thread of logic out of it. I've got other sh!t to do... You should too.

So let the vilification begin. I'll check back in a week or two to see how your doing with that. I am absolutely positive that I know right where to find you. You'll be right here jerkin on that same tired chain you've been jerkin on for the last nine months.

Note: For the record; we already know he's an a$$hole.

Oh, OK got it. You just checked in to let us know that your life is so important that you don't really have time to concern yourself with the petty things that we go on about here. Yet at the same time, although you don't really care about the subjects being discussed, you think that somehow we can benefit from your infinite wisdom on (probably) all things, so you deign to share it.
Well I for one feel like I am the better for having had the input of your infinite wisdom. So when you are done jerking whatever it is that you jerk when you are not here, please do check back and let us have another dose.
And for the record, we already know that you are too.

 

[Anonymous]

Personally it's not so much I think people who hate Armstrong don't have a life or are too obsessed. It's the fact that their obsession is AGAINST something - it's a negative rather than a positive obsession. It's hard for me to get my head around why people would get off on trying to bring someone down. But we can't all be the same I suppose.

 

[Anonymous]

Can I vote unsure?

Seriously, I don't know if Lance knows believes the team will be built around him. He seems nervous almost. Like he is starting to doubt whether the comeback was a good idea or not. His 3rd place this year was pretty lucky considering the favourites that had bad years, the TTT etc etc etc. Maybe he knows he was only the 10th or so strongest rider out there on the mountains or the time trials.

Either way, I think the comment is a bit of a bluff, but I think the question is whether or not that superstar from Spain will actually buy this, and I think the answer is NO!

Going into the tour this year, JB talked about how he has 5 riders who have finished in the top 5. Soon after, it was clear that Zubeldia was riding as domestique, and by Verbier with LL out, it was clear that Kloden was riding for Lance, and it was also clear that AC didn't really need a domestique in the mountains as he's the best climber in the world.

So the whole "we have Levi, Andreas, Lance and Alberto" argument didn't hold up this year, so I really don't think Alberto is going to believe the whole "we have Levi, Andreas and Lance" argument in 2010.

.......

On a side note, the discussion about the need to post about Lance is interesting. All I have to say is that I have no problem with the pro-Lance posters or the anti-Lance posters. As I've said many times, the anti-Lance posters don't like to be labelled as 'haters' and the pro-Lance posters don't like to be labelled as 'fanboys'. Both generalised terms have negative connotations attached to them as they both imply the two extremes of support for a rider.

Neither party wants to be labelled as either one, so why don't we just stop doing it? Everyone has a right to post what they want, but I think there can be a little bit of self-moderating by us, the posters, in these kind of threads. Why don't we all agree just to quit with the generalisations? If someone posts something negative about Lance, leave it as that. If someone posts something positive about Lance, leave it as that. No need for the personal attacks and generalisations of one's motive for being involved in this thread.

I hate it when my opinion of Lance is described as a 'delluded fanboy', and I know that people on the other side of the fence hate being described as a "disgruntled hater', so we can keep the discussion focused on the actual issue at hand without referring to poster's as these kind of terms, can't we?

 

[Anonymous]

Gee, sorry not to have gotten right back on this, but damn it, the rest of my life got in the way and I just got busy. You know how that is... mmm maybe not.

So... where to start? I thought the thread title was "Pathological Dishonesty" so I naively assumed that yours was fair game along with every one else's. Do you get a hall pass because it's your thread?

I admit that I admire so many of your posts. You have a diabolical ability to obfuscate any topic with contradiction, pretzel logic and extraneous thread tangents that lean heavily towards paranoid delusion. How this ever got to be about your right to post on LA eludes me. Mine was just agreeing with another post that labeled this thread as "pathological hate mongering". They are not the same.

You like to take your position and then chide, belittle, and attempt to bully anyone who doesn't agree with you. You've done it with others on this thread. Or you deflect any competent dissenter as a "fanboy" and blind follower of LA, whose idol worship has clouded all rational thought. You tried that with me once before, and spent hours reading all my posts looking for that evidence before concluding otherwise, and making a public apology to me on this very site.

I believe that your incessant need to post on LA is at the center of a Love / Hate relationship that you have with him. He is like alcohol to an alcoholic for you. A demon you should hate enough to exorcise from your thoughts, but then again, you just can't seem to help yourself. Your intense need to keep the conversation going is certainly your right, but you should really speak to a professional about it.

Let me apply some of your obtuse logic; LA lives his life, so why should you care what he does? Here's the deal; I'll accept you as a fact of life when you do the same with LA, or me, or anyone who disagrees with you. But I don't think I will be holding my breath on that one, because I'm pretty well convinced you don't have a life. Your 3573 posts since last March is more than 13 posts a day... EVERY SINGLE DAY! You need to put down the mouse and go outside, because what you call passion for the sport is really just another OCD.

I am sure that the fur will fly in some excoriating reply, but quite frankly I don't have the time or inclination to try and pick some salient thread of logic out of it. I've got other sh!t to do... You should too.

So let the vilification begin. I'll check back in a week or two to see how your doing with that. I am absolutely positive that I know right where to find you. You'll be right here jerkin on that same tired chain you've been jerkin on for the last nine months.

Note: For the record; we already know he's an a$$hole.

Wow, all that for just 2 questions and a paraphrase. In all your psycho babble, did you ever consider that your keen sense of observation regarding these things might be because you are intimately familiar with those attributes on a personal level? Don't answer, I already know. Personal insight doesn't appear to be your strong suit.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Already changing his tune.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKTRE5B91QZ20091210?rpc=401&feedType=RSS&feedName=sportsNews&rpc=401
Oh...and posting independent testing on line cause silly speculation, so normal service will be resumed.

 

[issoisso]

I voted "yes". Amazing as it may seem, some people will believe anything.

 

[everybodypanic]

Awe...dwid kwitty gwet a spwinter in hwer paw?

You're such a tool. Imagine how much better of a cyclist you'd be if you didn't spend so much time bumping your gums about Lance Armstrong on this board.

Sad.

 

[Anonymous]

You're such a tool. Imagine how much better of a cyclist you'd be if you didn't spend so much time bumping your gums about Lance Armstrong on this board.

Sad.

...okay...

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

It's hard for me to get my head around why people would get off on trying to bring someone down.

I agree. I can't imagine why Lance would try these childish antics to try to bring Contador down.

I guess we really can't all be the same. It was nice to see Conty take the high ground and not stoop to the same puerile antics as Lance.

 

[Anonymous]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lance-armstrong-radioshack-not-built-around-me

Is there anyone else in the world that believes this but him?

yeah, I actually spit out some morning coffee when I saw that headline...would have made more sense in the onion...

 

[red_flanders]

Personally it's not so much I think people who hate Armstrong don't have a life or are too obsessed. It's the fact that their obsession is AGAINST something - it's a negative rather than a positive obsession. It's hard for me to get my head around why people would get off on trying to bring someone down. But we can't all be the same I suppose.

Consider that negativity breeds negativity. If Armstrong hadn't spent so much time, energy and effort attempting to bring down honest people in cycling, there would be exponentially less vitriol surrounding him in the cycling community.

It's not like this comes from nowhere.

 

[HL2037]

Personally it's not so much I think people who hate Armstrong don't have a life or are too obsessed. It's the fact that their obsession is AGAINST something - it's a negative rather than a positive obsession. It's hard for me to get my head around why people would get off on trying to bring someone down. But we can't all be the same I suppose.

I'm for fairplay and justice. That's not an negative obsession. Nobody likes to see the bad guy get away with it.

 

[kurtinsc]

I'm for fairplay and justice. That's not an negative obsession. Nobody likes to see the bad guy get away with it.

They're all bad guys.

They're almost all doping.

Kind of like how in 2008, all but two of the top 20 had suspicious blood values... but not bad enough to get suspended. Getting caught doesn't mean you were the only doper... it just means you weren't very smart about it.

If that bothers you... I really don't think cycling is the sport for you. Just accept it and enjoy the show. That's what has worked for me.

 

[Anonymous]

They're all bad guys.

They're almost all doping.

Kind of like how in 2008, all but two of the top 20 had suspicious blood values... but not bad enough to get suspended. Getting caught doesn't mean you were the only doper... it just means you weren't very smart about it.

If that bothers you... I really don't think cycling is the sport for you. Just accept it and enjoy the show. That's what has worked for me.

May I ask, who are the two out of the top 20?

That story has passed by me unnoticed for some reason. I won't ask for a reference, just a couple of names would be great though?

Cheers.

 

[filipo]

You're such a tool. Imagine how much better of a cyclist you'd be if you didn't spend so much time bumping your gums about Lance Armstrong on this board.

Sad.

You might not know this, but TFF is actually Greg Lemond. It's true!

 

[HL2037]

They're all bad guys.

They're almost all doping.

Kind of like how in 2008, all but two of the top 20 had suspicious blood values... but not bad enough to get suspended. Getting caught doesn't mean you were the only doper... it just means you weren't very smart about it.

If that bothers you... I really don't think cycling is the sport for you. Just accept it and enjoy the show. That's what has worked for me.

I know they are all doping.

You know they are not all acting like psychopats, systematically lying, trying to rewrite history, threatening, bribing, bullying etc. etc.

 

[kurtinsc]

I know they are all doping.

You know they are not all acting like psychopats, systematically lying, trying to rewrite history, threatening, bribing, bullying etc. etc.

Of course they're all lying, cheating, bribing and bullying.

If they weren't... well they'd be admitting they were dopers and riding clean.

They're not. Some are just better at appearing to be "good guys" then others.

It takes an egotistical liar to become a good cyclist today. If you're a nice guy riding clean... you're a domestique.

 

[hfer07]

Already changing his tune.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKTRE5B91QZ20091210?rpc=401&feedType=RSS&feedName=sportsNews&rpc=401
Oh...and posting independent testing on line cause silly speculation, so normal service will be resumed.

So he's absolutely going for the Kill next year... His HTC will be bordering 50 & jacked to the brains with AICAR & the whole works......
Where did those sweet words of -"the team not built around me"- go?