Patrick Jonker on LA.......?

[Colm.Murphy]

Perhaps the journalist needs a lie-detector test?

Look, there is an air of desperation in our midst.

Lance withdraws from Leadville? What, were they going to have an anti-doping test there?

Then, here comes this fossil Jonker, recalling some time spent together in 1992?

Seriously, combining the fundamental and material misrepresentation of the condition(s) of whether Jonker has or would take a polygraph, and leaning on him for glowing assessment of his feelings about Lance, I'd submit that CSE and Public Strategies got their dime's worth.

Now, only if Fox Sports Aussie meant something in the venue of relevance.

 

[Kennf1]

Again, this is the type of embarrassingly amateurish move that makes me think that either (1) Public Strategies just sucks; or (2) Lance is going off the reservation and doing his own stuff that is not coordinated through PS and Tim Herman.

Personally, I think #2 is more likely. Seriously, voluntary lie detector tests?

 

[Benotti69]

Again, this is the type of embarrassingly amateurish move that makes me think that either (1) Public Strategies just sucks; or (2) Lance is going off the reservation and doing his own stuff that is not coordinated through PS and Tim Herman.

Personally, I think #2 is more likely. Seriously, voluntary lie detector tests?

Pubic Stratalies must be 24hour on this one to be contacting Aussie rider's and getting Aussie news to put this crap out. Shift work. hope it pays.

i cant imagine Lance has too many favours he can call in, him being fantastic at treating people the right way and ending his relationships on a high with former riders bet they have been contacting former riders and telling them if they talk about nothing happening at usps they'll get their bonuses, after years of waiting

 

[craig1985]

It's hard to judge whether or not the "outsiders" were on the program.

Floyd says he was first introduced to doping during the Dauphine (or TdS?) which was probably the time the Hog decided he was going to be part of the TdF squad and could bring him in as a member of the "A" team.

So there's no guarantee the non-A teamers were part of the systematic doping regime.

No doubt. But if some of the riders they had were doping, well they should of asked for a refund because it wasn't working.

 

[D Avoid]

Ok, maybe it's just me but the title of the article reads:



but the body of the article makes no mention of any such test being taken. The closest it comes is:



Am I missing something?

The lie..........?

 

[patswana]

A few of the local not quite pro riders have told me about Jonker giving them instructions in how to dope. Enough said.

 

[Cobblestoned]

A few of the local not quite pro riders have told me about Jonker giving them instructions in how to dope. Enough said.

Perhaps he saved their lifes


add to my list:
- people, who heard that someone talked to people, who talked to people that got dopinginstructions from Jonker, who himself was instructed and forced by Armstrong to dope

 

[la.margna]

First of all, has a guy who rode one season with ONCE the slightest credibility with regard to doping???!!!

Secondly, it might perhaps well have some truth in it as he didn't ride the Tour with US postal, who knows...

Poor Floyd got old, defect bikes and little Jonker was not even included in the team program, although he wished (see his quote)??!!!

 

[Polish]

Not a Lance fan but was Jonker left out of the loop?



http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,27539460-23218,00.html

We need to make this awesome Fox News article a sticky thread!

Would Floyd take a Lie Detector test?
Not even if you paid him lol.

 

[shawnrohrbach]

Until he says it under oath in the grand jury room, it don't mean ***.

+1 And this goes for ALL of the wild a$$ speculation flying around this forum.

 

[MacRoadie]

We need to make this awesome Fox News article a sticky thread!

Would Floyd take a Lie Detector test?
Not even if you paid him lol.

Would Lance?

Or would that be like allowing the 1999 samples to be re-tested in the lab of his choice, using his own experts as oversight...

 

[pedaling squares]

"If they want to ask were there any performance enhancing drugs taken at US Postal, I'd say, 'I wish there was' because I would have liked to improve my performance," Jonker said.

What is that supposed to mean...

Its a joke, ever heard of humour, Australians tend to joke a lot. Hugh

Yeah it's a joke but what an incredibly stupid thing for a manager of a cycling team to say. So how does he expect to improve the performance of his current team?

Considering how little he competed for USPS that year it is not inconceivable that he didn't take part in any doping. But it's hard not to be suspicious of any guy who rode for ONCE in '96 and USPS in '00.

 

[red_flanders]

My favorite part is the leap of logic he takes.

"I didn't see anything. If I was subpoenaed to go to court and put my hand on the Bible, I'd go.

"This is not a game. It's very serious.

"Maybe it's good they're investigating. These are serious allegations and, once and for all, his name will be cleared. But cleared of what? Because he hasn't done anything wrong."

I'm sorry, what? Because Jonker (who?) didn't see it, it categorically means it didn't happen? Seriously?

 

[MacRoadie]

My favorite part is the leap of logic he takes.



I'm sorry, what? Because Jonker (who?) didn't see it, it categorically means it didn't happen? Seriously?

But he took...oops, would take a lie detector test.

 

[red_flanders]

But he took...oops, would take a lie detector test.

Why not? Entirely believable that he didn't see anything.

Categorically saying Lance was clean? That's an opinion. A speculative one at that.

 

[LKing25]

Riding for ONCE and US Postal in itself screams Doping

 

[hrotha]

Was Rabobank clean all of sudden?

 

[santacruz]

to summarize, Jonker is a PoS just like Lance.

 

[SpartacusRox]

I had to laugh when I saw the Patrick Jonker snippet on CN this morning because I knew without even checking what the response would be.

I was correct of course, the response was right down the line of what the posters accuse Lance of.
1. Firstly character assasination of Jonker
2. Dismissal of his comments
3. Immediate assumption that Lance MUST have paid him or coerced him to support his side of the story
4. Inferring that his evidence will be overwhelmed by the weight of evidence from the prosecution.

Most of the usual suspects in there of course and I am sure more of the Lance flame boys will put their two cents worth in during the day.

The reality of course is that Jonker is not just an "old hack" ( I liked that one), he is well respected in the Australasian cycling community.

I am predicting that there will be a number of others like him who will be happy to stand up and support Lance, witnesses with high credibility rather than ex dopers with an axe to grind.

 

[patswana]

Jonker used to talk on training rides about a slightly different technique of injecting recovery corticosteroids. Instead of injecting the whole dose into the gluteal or deltoid region, he'd divide the injection up, putting roughly a quarter into each of the sorest muscle groups. This meant he was injecting directly into his gastrocnemius muscles (and quads)!

 

[Colm.Murphy]

I had to laugh when I saw the Patrick Jonker snippet on CN this morning because I knew without even checking what the response would be.

I was correct of course, the response was right down the line of what the posters accuse Lance of.
1. Firstly character assasination of Jonker
2. Dismissal of his comments
3. Immediate assumption that Lance MUST have paid him or coerced him to support his side of the story
4. Inferring that his evidence will be overwhelmed by the weight of evidence from the prosecution.

Most of the usual suspects in there of course and I am sure more of the Lance flame boys will put their two cents worth in during the day.

The reality of course is that Jonker is not just an "old hack" ( I liked that one), he is well respected in the Australasian cycling community.

I am predicting that there will be a number of others like him who will be happy to stand up and support Lance, witnesses with high credibility rather than ex dopers with an axe to grind.

Regarding the more than a few individuals here who claim to have directly heard (or heard of) Jonker using or describing his use of doping compounds, any reasonable person should be able to discern what Jonker is doing with these statements.

Mr. Rox, I understand that some of the sports heroes are on the fast track to anything from sanction to jail, but it is pure contrariety to polarize on things for the sake of doing so.

From my own Danish source, Jonker was a popper on ONCE and Bigmat, for EPO and potblege. Took him years to break off using once he stopped racing... But this is just the whisper from my generally reliable source.

For everyone, the era simply was rife with dope use. Doping permeated and defined the time. The times of guys who thought if 1 was good, then 4 must be better is what caused the health issues. Once it got very refined and bio-science driven, the Ferrari's, Fx's, etc., were able to up the billing to maximize the results and lower the risks.

Today we see a few brave souls, for whatever the reason, run and ring the bell and toss the house lights up, and many just refuse to believe their eyes. For those, waiting out for a decision in a court of law, so they can trust their beliefs on a higher authority, will be the only time they will surmise that Mr. Yellow bracelet essentially stole a decade of racing from fans and clean sports.

If that is what it will take, so be it. in the mean time, polarise away.

 

[Realist]

I had to laugh when I saw the Patrick Jonker snippet on CN this morning because I knew without even checking what the response would be.

I was correct of course, the response was right down the line of what the posters accuse Lance of.
1. Firstly character assasination of Jonker
2. Dismissal of his comments
3. Immediate assumption that Lance MUST have paid him or coerced him to support his side of the story
4. Inferring that his evidence will be overwhelmed by the weight of evidence from the prosecution.

Most of the usual suspects in there of course and I am sure more of the Lance flame boys will put their two cents worth in during the day.

The reality of course is that Jonker is not just an "old hack" ( I liked that one), he is well respected in the Australasian cycling community.

I am predicting that there will be a number of others like him who will be happy to stand up and support Lance, witnesses with high credibility rather than ex dopers with an axe to grind.

Well finally we agree on something Spartacus - Jonker is reasonably well respected in the Australian cycling community (although I don't know about Australasian... the teams he has worked with have not raced much in Asia or even NZ). He is not some hack, he was a good rider. Still, it is not as if Australian cycling is totally clean, especially in the era that Jonker came through. Neil Stephens was part of Festina. Jonker was on several teams that were obviously dirty. I have no information about whether he was or not. I do know a small amount about numerous elite (non-pro) Australian guys who have doped and about some dealing networks there. I don't know why Jonker is speaking out but it does appear at best misguided. The evidence against Armstrong is becoming overwhelming - whether Jonker saw him injecting or not. Jonker gains little by speaking out, but it's not a good look for him if he turns out to be wrong. I mean, part of his gig right now is being in charge of a development squad. If he turns out to be wrong on Armstrong, it is going to make him look very silly and probably make people needlessly question the results of that squad. It is potentially counterproductive to the people he is paid to be looking after right now.

 

[Polish]

From my own Danish source, Jonker was a popper on ONCE and Bigmat, for EPO and potblege. Took him years to break off using once he stopped racing... But this is just the whisper from my generally reliable source.

.

Are you saying we should be NOT believe Mr Jonker because he is a doper?

C'mon, not ALL dopers are liars. Some are even wiling to take lie detector tests. Some aren't though....

 

[Hotbrakes]

Riders should have to take a lie detector test before they ride the tour.

 

[ferryman]

Jonker used to talk on training rides about a slightly different technique of injecting recovery corticosteroids. Instead of injecting the whole dose into the gluteal or deltoid region, he'd divide the injection up, putting roughly a quarter into each of the sorest muscle groups. This meant he was injecting directly into his gastrocnemius muscles (and quads)!

Where does one learn such a technique