Like in Rio? GVA was still there. And won. So Sagan can win.Nirvana said:In normal circustances probably there are at least a dozen of riders that he can't drop but after 250 kms of hard racing it's different, Nibali becomes stronger than riders usually better than him when is an hard and long race.
But there were 15km of flat after the final climb in Rio, that won't be the case in Innsbruck. GVA attacked 5km from the finish, so he had 10km, to rest. Also, Rio was unique. If Nibali and Henao hadn't crashed you would have 3 riders working instead of one. They could've pushed on until a few kms to go and then have played about when it was in sure. It really is difficult for one rider to hold their own on the flat.Tonton said:Like in Rio? GVA was still there. And won. So Sagan can win.Nirvana said:In normal circustances probably there are at least a dozen of riders that he can't drop but after 250 kms of hard racing it's different, Nibali becomes stronger than riders usually better than him when is an hard and long race.
Sagan didn't even go to Rio because after the reconnaissance he found too hard for him and Rio was easier climbing wise with only three laps with the climb to Vista Chinesa, the classics style lap with cobbles and the flat parts along the coast at the beginning and in the finale. And van Avermaet is probably better than actual Sagan on the climbs and also focused on his climbing for Rio, we saw in the Tour when he dropped De Gendt like a stone to win in Le Lioran.Tonton said:Like in Rio? GVA was still there. And won. So Sagan can win.Nirvana said:In normal circustances probably there are at least a dozen of riders that he can't drop but after 250 kms of hard racing it's different, Nibali becomes stronger than riders usually better than him when is an hard and long race.
Today we had a demostration of that, after an hard ridden and pretty long (223 kms) race Nibali put a very strong performance in a murito like finish that doesn't suit him.Nirvana said:In normal circustances probably there are at least a dozen of riders that he can't drop but after 250 kms of hard racing it's different, Nibali becomes stronger than riders usually better than him when is an hard and long race.
c'mon man, nibali wasn't riding against froome, contador and valverde... who are the best in those muritosNirvana said:Today we had a demostration of that, after an hard ridden and pretty long (223 kms) race Nibali put a very strong performance in a murito like finish that doesn't suit him.Nirvana said:In normal circustances probably there are at least a dozen of riders that he can't drop but after 250 kms of hard racing it's different, Nibali becomes stronger than riders usually better than him when is an hard and long race.
https://mobile.twitter.com/faustocoppi60/status/914170133198884864
With the same finish but after an easy 150/180 kms race probably he would have been dropped by 15 riders.
He was better than Froome and Valverde in the olympics (241km).portugal11 said:c'mon man, nibali wasn't riding against froome, contador and valverde... who are the best in those muritosNirvana said:Today we had a demostration of that, after an hard ridden and pretty long (223 kms) race Nibali put a very strong performance in a murito like finish that doesn't suit him.Nirvana said:In normal circustances probably there are at least a dozen of riders that he can't drop but after 250 kms of hard racing it's different, Nibali becomes stronger than riders usually better than him when is an hard and long race.
https://mobile.twitter.com/faustocoppi60/status/914170133198884864
With the same finish but after an easy 150/180 kms race probably he would have been dropped by 15 riders.
Mate, I'm talking about muritos...skippo12 said:He was better than Froome and Valverde in the olympics (241km).portugal11 said:c'mon man, nibali wasn't riding against froome, contador and valverde... who are the best in those muritosNirvana said:Today we had a demostration of that, after an hard ridden and pretty long (223 kms) race Nibali put a very strong performance in a murito like finish that doesn't suit him.Nirvana said:In normal circustances probably there are at least a dozen of riders that he can't drop but after 250 kms of hard racing it's different, Nibali becomes stronger than riders usually better than him when is an hard and long race.
https://mobile.twitter.com/faustocoppi60/status/914170133198884864
With the same finish but after an easy 150/180 kms race probably he would have been dropped by 15 riders.
In Ermita de Santa Lucia that is very similar but after a slow paced 157 kms stage he was dropped by 16 riders and Moscon ripped the GC riders group with Froome that had to ask to him to slow down the pace.portugal11 said:c'mon man, nibali wasn't riding against froome, contador and valverde... who are the best in those muritosNirvana said:Today we had a demostration of that, after an hard ridden and pretty long (223 kms) race Nibali put a very strong performance in a murito like finish that doesn't suit him.Nirvana said:In normal circustances probably there are at least a dozen of riders that he can't drop but after 250 kms of hard racing it's different, Nibali becomes stronger than riders usually better than him when is an hard and long race.
https://mobile.twitter.com/faustocoppi60/status/914170133198884864
With the same finish but after an easy 150/180 kms race probably he would have been dropped by 15 riders.
And I agree with you. For me dumoulin is the no favourite for Insbruck and nibali is the second favourite.Nirvana said:In Ermita de Santa Lucia that is very similar but after a slow paced 157 kms stage he was dropped by 16 riders and Moscon ripped the GC riders group with Froome that had to ask to him to slow down the pace.portugal11 said:c'mon man, nibali wasn't riding against froome, contador and valverde... who are the best in those muritosNirvana said:Today we had a demostration of that, after an hard ridden and pretty long (223 kms) race Nibali put a very strong performance in a murito like finish that doesn't suit him.Nirvana said:In normal circustances probably there are at least a dozen of riders that he can't drop but after 250 kms of hard racing it's different, Nibali becomes stronger than riders usually better than him when is an hard and long race.
https://mobile.twitter.com/faustocoppi60/status/914170133198884864
With the same finish but after an easy 150/180 kms race probably he would have been dropped by 15 riders.
I'm one that usually think that Nibali is an overrated rider as a climber due to his luck in GTs but it's impossible to not note that the longer and the harder raced the course is the stronger he becomes, it's a matter of fact that he has this skill, and in Insbruck the climbs (bar the last ramp) are longer and better suited to him.
Dumoulin is not the best climber out there, nor the best descender, nor particularly fast on the line, so I fail to see how is he the biggest favorite?portugal11 said:And I agree with you. For me dumoulin is the no favourite for Insbruck and nibali is the second favourite.Nirvana said:In Ermita de Santa Lucia that is very similar but after a slow paced 157 kms stage he was dropped by 16 riders and Moscon ripped the GC riders group with Froome that had to ask to him to slow down the pace.portugal11 said:c'mon man, nibali wasn't riding against froome, contador and valverde... who are the best in those muritosNirvana said:Today we had a demostration of that, after an hard ridden and pretty long (223 kms) race Nibali put a very strong performance in a murito like finish that doesn't suit him.Nirvana said:In normal circustances probably there are at least a dozen of riders that he can't drop but after 250 kms of hard racing it's different, Nibali becomes stronger than riders usually better than him when is an hard and long race.
https://mobile.twitter.com/faustocoppi60/status/914170133198884864
With the same finish but after an easy 150/180 kms race probably he would have been dropped by 15 riders.
I'm one that usually think that Nibali is an overrated rider as a climber due to his luck in GTs but it's impossible to not note that the longer and the harder raced the course is the stronger he becomes, it's a matter of fact that he has this skill, and in Insbruck the climbs (bar the last ramp) are longer and better suited to him.
Near-monument value? Do you really think a victory in MSR or Lombardia is more important than one at the Worlds?spalco said:I still don't like the guy, but reading that Freire article on the front page makes me think - isn't Sagan well on his way to become the greatest classics rider of the modern era already? Especially if we're counting the world championship as near-monument value. I mean, he has a couple monuments to go, but an older, wiser and still as fast Sagan is honestly a scary thought. And winning the 4th world championship in Innsbruck would be just incredible.
Cancellara, Boonen and Gilbert are quite far ahead of him in my opinion at the moment. (I'm not sure what you consider the modern era, but all 3 are certainly considered modern era).spalco said:I still don't like the guy, but reading that Freire article on the front page makes me think - isn't Sagan well on his way to become the greatest classics rider of the modern era already? Especially if we're counting the world championship as near-monument value. I mean, he has a couple monuments to go, but an older, wiser and still as fast Sagan is honestly a scary thought. And winning the 4th world championship in Innsbruck would be just incredible.
This is interesting.SKSemtex said:Unfortunately, I can not find the original so it can buy another fake Slovak news. But according to this article, the founder and owner of Bora Will Bruckbauer consider the signing of Sagan his best signature in his life.
Bora is growing 30% faster in the markets where the cycling is popular ( Benelux, Italy, France, Spain).
"The recognition of the brand has increased after our involvement in cycling up to seven times, and Peter Sagan is also responsible." "According to Bruckbauer, it was his best signature in his life,"
https://sport24.pluska.sk/cyklo/ked-ho-podpisovali-taketo-nieco-bore-urcite-necakali-za-vsetko-moze-sagan.html