Teams & Riders Peter Sagan discussion thread.

[Nirvana]

Re: Re:

In normal circustances probably there are at least a dozen of riders that he can't drop but after 250 kms of hard racing it's different, Nibali becomes stronger than riders usually better than him when is an hard and long race.

Like in Rio? GVA was still there. And won. So Sagan can win.

Sagan didn't even go to Rio because after the reconnaissance he found too hard for him and Rio was easier climbing wise with only three laps with the climb to Vista Chinesa, the classics style lap with cobbles and the flat parts along the coast at the beginning and in the finale. And van Avermaet is probably better than actual Sagan on the climbs and also focused on his climbing for Rio, we saw in the Tour when he dropped De Gendt like a stone to win in Le Lioran.

Anyway in Insbruck also the Rio climber version of van Avermaet can't stand a chance.

 

[tomorrow]

you do realize that sagan might have been giving stupid answer to stupid question, right? Hi will probably race in Insbruck, because defending champion just should be present on next championships unless some serious circumstances happen, or if the country doesn't have cyclist better suited to the route, which obviously Slovakia does not. Although anything can really happen, I don't think sagan will repeat the mistakes from cannondale. Hi might alter his preparations a little bit, but imho he will not want to loose weight much. Obviously, he could win only if the others will have f***** up miserably, and in that scenario, even his current climbing could be enough. Even if he found some miraculous climbing form, Valverde would drop him on the last hill. So he needs a head start on the climb, either from a longish break, or if the pace is slow enough, the from the last descent. However, this scenario is only a wet dream. If the climbers brought sagan with themselves to the last lap, or they give him 5 minutes headstart in a break from 80km to go, then they should retire immediately.

 

[Nirvana]

Re:

In normal circustances probably there are at least a dozen of riders that he can't drop but after 250 kms of hard racing it's different, Nibali becomes stronger than riders usually better than him when is an hard and long race.

Today we had a demostration of that, after an hard ridden and pretty long (223 kms) race Nibali put a very strong performance in a murito like finish that doesn't suit him.
https://mobile.twitter.com/faustocoppi60/status/914170133198884864

With the same finish but after an easy 150/180 kms race probably he would have been dropped by 15 riders.

 

[portugal11]

Re: Re:

In normal circustances probably there are at least a dozen of riders that he can't drop but after 250 kms of hard racing it's different, Nibali becomes stronger than riders usually better than him when is an hard and long race.

Today we had a demostration of that, after an hard ridden and pretty long (223 kms) race Nibali put a very strong performance in a murito like finish that doesn't suit him.
https://mobile.twitter.com/faustocoppi60/status/914170133198884864

With the same finish but after an easy 150/180 kms race probably he would have been dropped by 15 riders.

c'mon man, nibali wasn't riding against froome, contador and valverde... who are the best in those muritos

 

[skippo12]

Re: Re:

In normal circustances probably there are at least a dozen of riders that he can't drop but after 250 kms of hard racing it's different, Nibali becomes stronger than riders usually better than him when is an hard and long race.

Today we had a demostration of that, after an hard ridden and pretty long (223 kms) race Nibali put a very strong performance in a murito like finish that doesn't suit him.
https://mobile.twitter.com/faustocoppi60/status/914170133198884864

With the same finish but after an easy 150/180 kms race probably he would have been dropped by 15 riders.

c'mon man, nibali wasn't riding against froome, contador and valverde... who are the best in those muritos

He was better than Froome and Valverde in the olympics (241km).

 

[portugal11]

Re: Re:

In normal circustances probably there are at least a dozen of riders that he can't drop but after 250 kms of hard racing it's different, Nibali becomes stronger than riders usually better than him when is an hard and long race.

Today we had a demostration of that, after an hard ridden and pretty long (223 kms) race Nibali put a very strong performance in a murito like finish that doesn't suit him.
https://mobile.twitter.com/faustocoppi60/status/914170133198884864

With the same finish but after an easy 150/180 kms race probably he would have been dropped by 15 riders.

c'mon man, nibali wasn't riding against froome, contador and valverde... who are the best in those muritos

He was better than Froome and Valverde in the olympics (241km).

Mate, I'm talking about muritos...

 

[Red Rick]

Best performances of Nibali Murito's were in the 2014 Tour where he hung on to Contador until the final 100m (everyone else got destroyed), and Valdepenas 2010. That one was fun

 

[Nirvana]

Re: Re:

In normal circustances probably there are at least a dozen of riders that he can't drop but after 250 kms of hard racing it's different, Nibali becomes stronger than riders usually better than him when is an hard and long race.

Today we had a demostration of that, after an hard ridden and pretty long (223 kms) race Nibali put a very strong performance in a murito like finish that doesn't suit him.
https://mobile.twitter.com/faustocoppi60/status/914170133198884864

With the same finish but after an easy 150/180 kms race probably he would have been dropped by 15 riders.

c'mon man, nibali wasn't riding against froome, contador and valverde... who are the best in those muritos

In Ermita de Santa Lucia that is very similar but after a slow paced 157 kms stage he was dropped by 16 riders and Moscon ripped the GC riders group with Froome that had to ask to him to slow down the pace.

I'm one that usually think that Nibali is an overrated rider as a climber due to his luck in GTs but it's impossible to not note that the longer and the harder raced the course is the stronger he becomes, it's a matter of fact that he has this skill, and in Insbruck the climbs (bar the last ramp) are longer and better suited to him.

 

[portugal11]

Re: Re:

In normal circustances probably there are at least a dozen of riders that he can't drop but after 250 kms of hard racing it's different, Nibali becomes stronger than riders usually better than him when is an hard and long race.

Today we had a demostration of that, after an hard ridden and pretty long (223 kms) race Nibali put a very strong performance in a murito like finish that doesn't suit him.
https://mobile.twitter.com/faustocoppi60/status/914170133198884864

With the same finish but after an easy 150/180 kms race probably he would have been dropped by 15 riders.

c'mon man, nibali wasn't riding against froome, contador and valverde... who are the best in those muritos

In Ermita de Santa Lucia that is very similar but after a slow paced 157 kms stage he was dropped by 16 riders and Moscon ripped the GC riders group with Froome that had to ask to him to slow down the pace.

I'm one that usually think that Nibali is an overrated rider as a climber due to his luck in GTs but it's impossible to not note that the longer and the harder raced the course is the stronger he becomes, it's a matter of fact that he has this skill, and in Insbruck the climbs (bar the last ramp) are longer and better suited to him.

And I agree with you. For me dumoulin is the no favourite for Insbruck and nibali is the second favourite.

 

[Blanco]

Re: Re:

In normal circustances probably there are at least a dozen of riders that he can't drop but after 250 kms of hard racing it's different, Nibali becomes stronger than riders usually better than him when is an hard and long race.

Today we had a demostration of that, after an hard ridden and pretty long (223 kms) race Nibali put a very strong performance in a murito like finish that doesn't suit him.
https://mobile.twitter.com/faustocoppi60/status/914170133198884864

With the same finish but after an easy 150/180 kms race probably he would have been dropped by 15 riders.

c'mon man, nibali wasn't riding against froome, contador and valverde... who are the best in those muritos

In Ermita de Santa Lucia that is very similar but after a slow paced 157 kms stage he was dropped by 16 riders and Moscon ripped the GC riders group with Froome that had to ask to him to slow down the pace.

I'm one that usually think that Nibali is an overrated rider as a climber due to his luck in GTs but it's impossible to not note that the longer and the harder raced the course is the stronger he becomes, it's a matter of fact that he has this skill, and in Insbruck the climbs (bar the last ramp) are longer and better suited to him.

And I agree with you. For me dumoulin is the no favourite for Insbruck and nibali is the second favourite.

Dumoulin is not the best climber out there, nor the best descender, nor particularly fast on the line, so I fail to see how is he the biggest favorite?

 

[Red Rick]

Dumoulin can win, but only if he is willing to drop the ITT. But even if he doesn't, he will still do a lot better than Sagan.

 

[Jano]

Could Sagan be the first cyclist with a lifetime sponsorship agreement?

This guy thinks so: http://hnonline.sk/sport/1036166-sagan-moze-byt-prvym-cyklistom-s-dozivotnou-sponzorskou-zmluvou-mysli-si-odbornik-na-sportovy-marketing

Google translate: https://translate.google.ca/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fhnonline.sk%2Fsport%2F1036166-sagan-moze-byt-prvym-cyklistom-s-dozivotnou-sponzorskou-zmluvou-mysli-si-odbornik-na-sportovy-marketing&edit-text=&act=url

 

[portugal11]

Re: Re:

With the same finish but after an easy 150/180 kms race probably he would have been dropped by 15 riders.[/quote]
c'mon man, nibali wasn't riding against froome, contador and valverde... who are the best in those muritos[/quote]
In Ermita de Santa Lucia that is very similar but after a slow paced 157 kms stage he was dropped by 16 riders and Moscon ripped the GC riders group with Froome that had to ask to him to slow down the pace.

I'm one that usually think that Nibali is an overrated rider as a climber due to his luck in GTs but it's impossible to not note that the longer and the harder raced the course is the stronger he becomes, it's a matter of fact that he has this skill, and in Insbruck the climbs (bar the last ramp) are longer and better suited to him.[/quote]
And I agree with you. For me dumoulin is the no favourite for Insbruck and nibali is the second favourite.[/quote]

Dumoulin is not the best climber out there, nor the best descender, nor particularly fast on the line, so I fail to see how is he the biggest favorite?[/quote]
your are underestimate dumoulin's climbing ability. he is a endurance rider, I know he can win next year, and he is a better sprinter than nibali (in my opinion)

 

[SKSemtex]

https://www.facebook.com/SkodaCycling/photos/a.478342125579947.1073741828.474291262651700/1542450995835716/?type=3

I wonder if I could buy one as Froome or Contador .

What an ad for Bora!

 

[d-s3]

Sagan is a father (of a boy).

 

[Laplaz]

Congrats Peto!

 

[Emotional Cobble Guy]

Lil Peto

 

[SKSemtex]

Is Sagan worth his money?

Unfortunately, I can not find the original so it can buy another fake Slovak news. But according to this article, the founder and owner of Bora Will Bruckbauer consider the signing of Sagan his best signature in his life.

Bora is growing 30% faster in the markets where the cycling is popular ( Benelux, Italy, France, Spain).


"The recognition of the brand has increased after our involvement in cycling up to seven times, and Peter Sagan is also responsible." "According to Bruckbauer, it was his best signature in his life,"

https://sport24.pluska.sk/cyklo/ked...ore-urcite-necakali-za-vsetko-moze-sagan.html

 

[spalco]

I still don't like the guy, but reading that Freire article on the front page makes me think - isn't Sagan well on his way to become the greatest classics rider of the modern era already? Especially if we're counting the world championship as near-monument value. I mean, he has a couple monuments to go, but an older, wiser and still as fast Sagan is honestly a scary thought. And winning the 4th world championship in Innsbruck would be just incredible.

 

[tobydawq]

Re:

I still don't like the guy, but reading that Freire article on the front page makes me think - isn't Sagan well on his way to become the greatest classics rider of the modern era already? Especially if we're counting the world championship as near-monument value. I mean, he has a couple monuments to go, but an older, wiser and still as fast Sagan is honestly a scary thought. And winning the 4th world championship in Innsbruck would be just incredible.

Near-monument value? Do you really think a victory in MSR or Lombardia is more important than one at the Worlds?

He won't win the WC next year no matter what they say but yeah, he definitely is on the track to becoming not just the greatest classic rider of our time but one of the best riders in history.

Freire seems envious in that interview by the way. "I was as young as Sagan when I had won three worlds (he wasn't)" and "the riders of this era are not as good as when I was riding (they are)" are quotes that seem somewhat strange. I don't know who he is trying to fool but there is no way in hell that he could be considered as as good a rider as Sagan.

 

[Ruby United]

Re:

I still don't like the guy, but reading that Freire article on the front page makes me think - isn't Sagan well on his way to become the greatest classics rider of the modern era already? Especially if we're counting the world championship as near-monument value. I mean, he has a couple monuments to go, but an older, wiser and still as fast Sagan is honestly a scary thought. And winning the 4th world championship in Innsbruck would be just incredible.

Cancellara, Boonen and Gilbert are quite far ahead of him in my opinion at the moment. (I'm not sure what you consider the modern era, but all 3 are certainly considered modern era).
I do agree, however, that by the time he retires he might very well have the greatest classics achievements. For comparison, here is him at the moment vs the above 3 in terms of (decently) big classic wins.

Peter Sagan:
3 WCRR
1 RVV
1 E3 Harlbeke
2 GW
(And 2nd 3 times in monuments)

Fabian Cancellara:
1 MSR
3 RVV
3 PR
3 Strade Bianche
3 E3 Harelbeke*
(And 2nd 5 times in monuments, 3rd 3 times in monuments, as well as 4 WC ITT's)

Tom Boonen:
1 WCRR
3 RVV
4 PR
5 E3 Harelbeke*
3 GW
(And 2nd 4 times in monuments, 3rd 2 times in monuments)

Phillipe Gilbert:
1 WCRR
1 RVV
1 LBL
2 Giro de Lombardia
4 Amstel Gold Race
1 Clasica San Sebastian
1 Fleche Wallonne
1 Strade Bianche
(And 3rd in 5 monuments)

*Not all when it was a WT race

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re: Is Sagan worth his money?

Unfortunately, I can not find the original so it can buy another fake Slovak news. But according to this article, the founder and owner of Bora Will Bruckbauer consider the signing of Sagan his best signature in his life.

Bora is growing 30% faster in the markets where the cycling is popular ( Benelux, Italy, France, Spain).


"The recognition of the brand has increased after our involvement in cycling up to seven times, and Peter Sagan is also responsible." "According to Bruckbauer, it was his best signature in his life,"

https://sport24.pluska.sk/cyklo/ked...ore-urcite-necakali-za-vsetko-moze-sagan.html

This is interesting.

It strikes me that Bora, as a company, got a particularly good deal when their team stepped up to the WT. They were previously paying the bulk of the cost of one of the biggest PCT teams with only a small to medium bike brand picking up the remnant of the tab. When they moved up to WT, a much bigger company came in as secondary sponsor and Specialized came in effectively as a third major sponsor, bringing Sagan.

I suspect that the leap in cycling related brand prominence came relatively cheaply. Certainly much more cheaply than upgrading all the way from PCT to one of the bigger WT teams would normally be for a main sponsor.

 

[Jano]

This interview is very interesting: http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/latest-news/how-peter-sagans-coach-helped-unlock-his-amazing-talent-358190

What has impressed you most while working with him?
There are a few uncommon things about Peter. The first is his capacity to understand his body and to know what he needs, whether that’s resting, or training more, or doing more strength workouts. That makes it easy, because he tells you what he needs.

Understanding his own body appears to be a key attribute of Peter's success.

This is intriguing:

How have you made Peter such a fast finisher?
I don’t think Peter is a fast guy. He can be fast, but he’s not naturally fast. He needs that skill, because at the end of the race he needs to be fast to win — but it’s not because he’s naturally fast.

We get his speed through his freshness and his strength — getting to the finish fresh and being faster than the fast guys. He wins not because he’s faster but because he’s fresher. He’s very similar in terms of characteristics to Tom Boonen: at the beginning of his career, he was able to win bunch sprints, but then he focused more on endurance. I really look to Tom’s career to try to understand where we can go with Peter.

Wooow... not naturally fast. Who would guess that?

 

[Blanco]

Re: Re:

I still don't like the guy, but reading that Freire article on the front page makes me think - isn't Sagan well on his way to become the greatest classics rider of the modern era already? Especially if we're counting the world championship as near-monument value. I mean, he has a couple monuments to go, but an older, wiser and still as fast Sagan is honestly a scary thought. And winning the 4th world championship in Innsbruck would be just incredible.

Cancellara, Boonen and Gilbert are quite far ahead of him in my opinion at the moment. (I'm not sure what you consider the modern era, but all 3 are certainly considered modern era).
I do agree, however, that by the time he retires he might very well have the greatest classics achievements. For comparison, here is him at the moment vs the above 3 in terms of (decently) big classic wins.

Peter Sagan:
3 WCRR
1 RVV
1 E3 Harlbeke
2 GW
(And 2nd 3 times in monuments)

Fabian Cancellara:
1 MSR
3 RVV
3 PR
3 Strade Bianche
3 E3 Harelbeke*
(And 2nd 5 times in monuments, 3rd 3 times in monuments, as well as 4 WC ITT's)

Tom Boonen:
1 WCRR
3 RVV
4 PR
5 E3 Harelbeke*
3 GW
(And 2nd 4 times in monuments, 3rd 2 times in monuments)

Phillipe Gilbert:
1 WCRR
1 LBL
2 Giro de Lombardia
4 Amstel Gold Race
1 Clasica San Sebastian
1 Fleche Wallonne
1 Strade Bianche
(And 3rd in 5 monuments)

*Not all when it was a WT race

And what the hell Individual Time Trial title has to do with the classics?!

I see that you have an asterisk next to E3, but what about Strade Bianche? Or do you think 2008, 2011 and 2012 editions were among the biggest classics, cause I don't. From 2014, maybe 2013, it is a very big classic indeed, but before that I don't rank it that high as races you mentioned above.

Also in Gilbert's case you didn't mentioned certain Ronde van Vlaanderen, Paris-Tours 2008 which was a WT-rank, Paris-Tours 2009 (not a WT, but very big race with a high quality field) and GP Quebec 2011 which is no lesser race then Strade Bianche same year by any means.

And also I would like to add Alejandro Valverde as a rider with better classics record than Sagan, as things stands right now. 4x Liege, 5x Fleche, 2x San Sebastian plus 6 WC medals and 5 Monument podiums I think tops Peter's achievements so far.

 

[Ruby United]

Re: Re:

I still don't like the guy, but reading that Freire article on the front page makes me think - isn't Sagan well on his way to become the greatest classics rider of the modern era already? Especially if we're counting the world championship as near-monument value. I mean, he has a couple monuments to go, but an older, wiser and still as fast Sagan is honestly a scary thought. And winning the 4th world championship in Innsbruck would be just incredible.

Cancellara, Boonen and Gilbert are quite far ahead of him in my opinion at the moment. (I'm not sure what you consider the modern era, but all 3 are certainly considered modern era).
I do agree, however, that by the time he retires he might very well have the greatest classics achievements. For comparison, here is him at the moment vs the above 3 in terms of (decently) big classic wins.

Peter Sagan:
3 WCRR
1 RVV
1 E3 Harlbeke
2 GW
(And 2nd 3 times in monuments)

Fabian Cancellara:
1 MSR
3 RVV
3 PR
3 Strade Bianche
3 E3 Harelbeke*
(And 2nd 5 times in monuments, 3rd 3 times in monuments, as well as 4 WC ITT's)

Tom Boonen:
1 WCRR
3 RVV
4 PR
5 E3 Harelbeke*
3 GW
(And 2nd 4 times in monuments, 3rd 2 times in monuments)

Phillipe Gilbert:
1 WCRR
1 LBL
2 Giro de Lombardia
4 Amstel Gold Race
1 Clasica San Sebastian
1 Fleche Wallonne
1 Strade Bianche
(And 3rd in 5 monuments)

*Not all when it was a WT race

And what the hell Individual Time Trial title has to do with the classics?!

I see that you have an asterisk next to E3, but what about Strade Bianche? Or do you think 2008, 2011 and 2012 editions were among the biggest classics, cause I don't. From 2014, maybe 2013, it is a very big classic indeed, but before that I don't rank it that high as races you mentioned above.

Also in Gilbert's case you didn't mentioned certain Ronde van Vlaanderen, Paris-Tours 2008 which was a WT-rank, Paris-Tours 2009 (not a WT, but very big race with a high quality field) and GP Quebec 2011 which is no lesser race then Strade Bianche same year by any means.

And also I would like to add Alejandro Valverde as a rider with better classics record than Sagan, as things stands right now. 4x Liege, 5x Fleche, 2x San Sebastian plus 6 WC medals and 5 Monument podiums I think tops Peter's achievements so far.

Your first point about not putting an asterisk next to Strade Bianche, I accept - I should have. However, about counting it from 2013/14, that I do not agree with. Either I count it from it's inauguration, when it became WT, or not at all. I did not want to subjectively decide when to count it from.

About Gilbert, I did write RVV but I must have by mistake deleted it, so thanks for pointing out. I will edit that. Paris Tours and GP Quebec, I accept. I must point out that I wrote Gilbert's palmares from memory as I temporarily did not have access to internet, so mistakes were inevitable.

I agree with you that Valverde may just have a better record than Sagan, but I left him out because in my opinion, compared to the other 3, he is way off.