Peter Sagan discussion thread.

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King Boonen said:
Gigs_98 said:
Sagan's sprint is massively underrated. The last two times he participated in a bunch sprint at the end of a really big one day race he won the world championship. Considering his record in reduced sprints after big efforts I think he is more likely to win if he rides passively.
National teams are not equal to trade teams, squad sizes are different etc. etc. While he's obviously good, there are a good few you would put above him in that situation.
Indeed, trade teams are not equal to national teams but that doesn't really change anything imo. After all the support he got at the WC's was without a doubt not better than the support of the other good sprinters
 
Gigs_98 said:
King Boonen said:
Gigs_98 said:
Sagan's sprint is massively underrated. The last two times he participated in a bunch sprint at the end of a really big one day race he won the world championship. Considering his record in reduced sprints after big efforts I think he is more likely to win if he rides passively.
National teams are not equal to trade teams, squad sizes are different etc. etc. While he's obviously good, there are a good few you would put above him in that situation.
Indeed, trade teams are not equal to national teams but that doesn't really change anything imo. After all the support he got at the WC's was without a doubt not better than the support of the other good sprinters
But the support the good sprinters get is generally worse than they get on their trade teams.
 
King Boonen said:
Gigs_98 said:
King Boonen said:
Gigs_98 said:
Sagan's sprint is massively underrated. The last two times he participated in a bunch sprint at the end of a really big one day race he won the world championship. Considering his record in reduced sprints after big efforts I think he is more likely to win if he rides passively.
National teams are not equal to trade teams, squad sizes are different etc. etc. While he's obviously good, there are a good few you would put above him in that situation.
Indeed, trade teams are not equal to national teams but that doesn't really change anything imo. After all the support he got at the WC's was without a doubt not better than the support of the other good sprinters
But the support the good sprinters get is generally worse than they get on their trade teams.
yup, and also Sagan doesn't have Oss type domestic in his national squad either. With Oss now in Bora, if he's in any shape near last years, Sagan should reevaluate at every race he races. E.g. in MSR, Bora should place hell pace on cipressa and bottom of poggio, they do have the power, and Sagan should wait for the sprint with Oss covering the attack, or even better, Oss should attack himself. Sagan then should just cover every counter attack and he's in last year scenario with a team mate in the front group. Oss. e.g. can also be crucial if somebody daring enough will attack on cipressa and will hold to the top of the poggio, because nobody will help Bora in bringing back such attacks.
 
tomorrow said:
King Boonen said:
Gigs_98 said:
King Boonen said:
Gigs_98 said:
Sagan's sprint is massively underrated. The last two times he participated in a bunch sprint at the end of a really big one day race he won the world championship. Considering his record in reduced sprints after big efforts I think he is more likely to win if he rides passively.
National teams are not equal to trade teams, squad sizes are different etc. etc. While he's obviously good, there are a good few you would put above him in that situation.
Indeed, trade teams are not equal to national teams but that doesn't really change anything imo. After all the support he got at the WC's was without a doubt not better than the support of the other good sprinters
But the support the good sprinters get is generally worse than they get on their trade teams.
yup, and also Sagan doesn't have Oss type domestic in his national squad either. With Oss now in Bora, if he's in any shape near last years, Sagan should reevaluate at every race he races. E.g. in MSR, Bora should place hell pace on cipressa and bottom of poggio, they do have the power, and Sagan should wait for the sprint with Oss covering the attack, or even better, Oss should attack himself. Sagan then should just cover every counter attack and he's in last year scenario with a team mate in the front group. Oss. e.g. can also be crucial if somebody daring enough will attack on cipressa and will hold to the top of the poggio, because nobody will help Bora in bringing back such attacks.
You are talking like you can get minutes on sprinters on Cipresa and Pogio. :) They can get few seconds on assumption Sagan (Kwiatko, Alaphillipe, Moscon...Gilbert) will go all in. Nobody from the group who can hold his wheel will bring him free to the finish and no way Oss can be in that group. He cannot sit a control.

As somebody said before, the wind on Pogio will be the most decisive factor.
 
SKSemtex said:
tomorrow said:
King Boonen said:
Gigs_98 said:
King Boonen said:
You are talking like you can get minutes on sprinters on Cipresa and Pogio. :) They can get few seconds on assumption Sagan (Kwiatko, Alaphillipe, Moscon...Gilbert) will go all in. Nobody from the group who can hold his wheel will bring him free to the finish and no way Oss can be in that group. He cannot sit a control.

As somebody said before, the wind on Pogio will be the most decisive factor.
Well, among others, try remembering the edition, where sagan got Cioleked. Gilbert with some others went on Cipressa downhill, and only Sagan's hard work on the last parts of poggio ascent and then on whole descent, they were brought back basically as the entered via roma. Back then, there was nobody that could help sagan do the chasing, for obvious reasons. They were all spend at the foot of poggio. This time, there could be at least Oss.
 
Re: Re:

Valv.Piti said:
KGB said:
Sagan got phone call from GVA how much he missed his wheel today.
Keep telling yourself that. Its really the go-to argument for Sagan fans and pretty annoying in the long run. Will be interesting when they finally square off again.
He did say himself that it would be easier to make a selection with Sagan in the race, because he almost always initiates a such. And that seemed to be proven pretty well today, where nobody really could get away.

I think Sagan's presence would have altered the race completely, and a group with Sagan, Vanmarcke, Stybar, GvA and Naesen would probably have gone away with him in the race. That would have given GvA a better chance than he had today.
 
SKSemtex said:
He was out of the saddle way too early today on the Muur. Unless he find some magical form next month he has no chance on Paterberg when Sagan launch his attack.
He has plenty of time. I think he looked decently strong today - you also need to consider he attacked before the Muur. Had he not, he would have looked better there.

toby: Sure, Sagan's presence may have altered the race. But KGBs comment was more focused on pointing out just how big of a wheel sucker GVA is when racing Sagan. Which isn't true IMO.
 
Valv.Piti said:
SKSemtex said:
He was out of the saddle way too early today on the Muur. Unless he find some magical form next month he has no chance on Paterberg when Sagan launch his attack.
He has plenty of time. I think he looked decently strong today - you also need to consider he attacked before the Muur. Had he not, he would have looked better there.

toby: Sure, Sagan's presence may have altered the race. But KGBs comment was more focused on pointing out just how big of a wheel sucker GVA is when racing Sagan. Which isn't true IMO.
A few times he has become a wheelsucker. Montréal last year was one of the more obvious examples, the same with Tirreno 2016. But in the spring classics it hasn't been much of an issue.
 

Eli

Feb 23, 2018
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KGB said:
Sagan got phone call from GVA how much he missed his wheel today.
You've been repeating the same line all over the place. We all agree that Sagan is the strongest rider in the world at present. He is a once in a lifetime kind of cyclist so it's only natural everyone would gravitate towards His wheel when the going gets tough.
 

KGB

Apr 16, 2015
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Re: Re:

Valv.Piti said:
KGB said:
Sagan got phone call from GVA how much he missed his wheel today.
Keep telling yourself that. Its really the go-to argument for Sagan fans and pretty annoying in the long run. Will be interesting when they finally square off again.
Everyone follow Sagans wheel even GVA boy. If that wheel is not in the race and all boys follow GVA well then he will not win many races.Cancellara was only one.GVA needs Sagan more then his BMC teammates.
 

KGB

Apr 16, 2015
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SKSemtex said:
He was out of the saddle way too early today on the Muur. Unless he find some magical form next month he has no chance on Paterberg when Sagan launch his attack.
If Sagan will have the same form as had last year not chance GVA could follow.He just love to show off how strong he is and vast so much energy but you don't want to see in finish line only:Sagan,Sagan,Sagan
 
Re: Re:

KGB said:
Valv.Piti said:
KGB said:
Sagan got phone call from GVA how much he missed his wheel today.
Keep telling yourself that. Its really the go-to argument for Sagan fans and pretty annoying in the long run. Will be interesting when they finally square off again.
Everyone follow Sagans wheel even GVA boy. If that wheel is not in the race and all boys follow GVA well then he will not win many races.Cancellara was only one.GVA needs Sagan more then his BMC teammates.
It's mutual with GVA and Sagan -GVA follows Sagan's attacks but will then share turns, unlike others.
 
Happy Oss seem to be at a great level. That gonna be very good for Sagan. Let Oss either set up the pace or close gaps. Save more energy during the race and strike at the right time.

Can not rely too much on Oss though if he would have off day and be stuck behind if others attack. It is a balance, but sure looks promising.
 
Re: Re:

KGB said:
Valv.Piti said:
KGB said:
Sagan got phone call from GVA how much he missed his wheel today.
Keep telling yourself that. Its really the go-to argument for Sagan fans and pretty annoying in the long run. Will be interesting when they finally square off again.
Everyone follow Sagans wheel even GVA boy. If that wheel is not in the race and all boys follow GVA well then he will not win many races.Cancellara was only one.GVA needs Sagan more then his BMC teammates.
By far the two biggest wins in GVA's career came when Sagan either got dropped early on (Roubaix) or didn't even enter because he was doing a marketing stunt instead (Olympics). So the theory doesn't hold up.

The reason why GVA and other top riders like Sagan being there is obvious. Because Sagan is incredibly strong, but rides without a brain - particularly in the finale. He basically is like a team-mate, because he co-operates, does loads of work, and then lets someone else win at the end.
 

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